Locks

[Wartstein]

..

https://streamable.com/myzlt

https://streamable.com/79jhhr

I got bitten once doing that when I was being careless. If you rotate the blade 90 degrees before moving your fingers out of the way, it's not that hard for your middle finger to hit the blade if you're not careful with how you're pulling it back. I don't think I'll do it again now that I'm experienced with back locks, but I'm still more cautious with back locks than other mechanisms.

FWIW I've also been bitten lightly by my para 3 when I was flicking it closed because my finger slipped a bit. I have trouble getting a proper grip on comp locks sometimes which makes them feel a bit less safe to close than they could be.
I've never hurt myself on a CBBL but the cage doesn't give me enough grip which makes it feel like it's going to fly out of my hands sometimes when I close it.

I don't find fingers in the blade path to be a problem on liner/frame locks with flipper tabs though. I've had those for a long time and you basically can't move your finger into the blade because the tab immediately hits it.

- Sure, one could potentially be bitten if not moving the finger(s) out of the way, no doubt.

But the thing is: This is true for all locks and all closing methods, just at different points in the closing process. It always baffles me a bit when people do as if comp.locks had some magic finger safety thing going on, while in fact one still has to put the fingers properly and deliberately out of the way, right in the beginning of the closing process, just like it is with other locks or methods later on in that process.

. As your example shows: Mistakes can potentially be made with that comp.lock method too, just as they can with other locks at some other point of the closing process.
Plus: One pays with "knife less safe in hand" when using a "fingers out of the blade path" method with any locktype, as your example is showing too.

Again, for me not a thing anyway, but some really seem to value that fingers out of the blade path thing.

- Right, on liner -/ frame locks with flipper tabs or finger choils it does not matter at all when fingers are in the path of the BLADE during the first part if the closing, cause one can't activate the lock without keeping the fingers inevitably safe of the actual EDGE

- CBBL not giving you enough grip: If you can pull the lock with just one finger (normally the thumb) and guide the blade with another finger (normally index) in the opening hole, or gripiping the handle better by additionally using the index finger for that,this could perhaps help?
See here, method 2, 3, 4 , 5

viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

Some people find it hard though to operate a CBBL "one fingered"

[vandelay]

- CBBL not giving you enough grip: If you can pull the lock with just one finger (normally the thumb) and guide the blade with another finger (normally index) in the opening hole, or gripiping the handle better by additionally using the index finger for that,this could perhaps help?
See here, method 2, 3, 4 , 5

viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

Some people find it hard though to operate a CBBL "one fingered"

I find it hard enough to operate a CBBL two fingered, let alone one. Maybe I got an abnormally strong spring on mine. Most of my issue is that the cage shape doesn't have an edge to push into. You're always pushing onto a ramp so it's hard to get enough grip.

[ladybug93]

- CBBL not giving you enough grip: If you can pull the lock with just one finger (normally the thumb) and guide the blade with another finger (normally index) in the opening hole, or gripiping the handle better by additionally using the index finger for that,this could perhaps help?
See here, method 2, 3, 4 , 5

viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

Some people find it hard though to operate a CBBL "one fingered"

I find it hard enough to operate a CBBL two fingered, let alone one. Maybe I got an abnormally strong spring on mine. Most of my issue is that the cage shape doesn't have an edge to push into. You're always pushing onto a ramp so it's hard to get enough grip.

when i do it with one finger, i usually push my thumb into the spydie hole and wedge the tip of my index finger into the top of the ball cage. pushing against each other, i get enough leverage to disengage the lock and start the blade closing. it's a little weird at first, but it doesn't take that much force. it's a lot easier than just trying to put one finger or your thumb flat on the lock and disengage that way. i'll see if i can take a picture later if that description doesn't make sense.

[Brotherscinc0]

After several years I have come to believe the plain old back lock is the superior mechanism for a few reasons.

The spring pressure that keeps the blade closed is a huge benefit. I can't count the number of times I have had a "high end" titanium frame lock open accidentally in my pocket. Ball detents wear out over time and just don't have enough retention. Liner/frame locks are also a flawed mechanism in general. They can or eventually, almost always, wear to the point when they can be overcome by spine pressure. Titanium liners or frames are just way too finicky for me to trust on a daily basis and I'm talking about Chris Reeve, Hinderer, Strider, Emerson, customs, whatever.

A back lock can't be forced closed except with the near destruction of the entire knife itself or a complete shearing of the backspring tang tab. It's a tried and true design that's been around. It also appears to be cheaper to make than the compression or BBLs. These days I prefer a knife that I'm not scared to lose or use.

The BBL is probably the next best mechanism.

[vandelay]

- CBBL not giving you enough grip: If you can pull the lock with just one finger (normally the thumb) and guide the blade with another finger (normally index) in the opening hole, or gripiping the handle better by additionally using the index finger for that,this could perhaps help?
See here, method 2, 3, 4 , 5

viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

Some people find it hard though to operate a CBBL "one fingered"

I find it hard enough to operate a CBBL two fingered, let alone one. Maybe I got an abnormally strong spring on mine. Most of my issue is that the cage shape doesn't have an edge to push into. You're always pushing onto a ramp so it's hard to get enough grip.

when i do it with one finger, i usually push my thumb into the spydie hole and wedge the tip of my index finger into the top of the ball cage. pushing against each other, i get enough leverage to disengage the lock and start the blade closing. it's a little weird at first, but it doesn't take that much force. it's a lot easier than just trying to put one finger or your thumb flat on the lock and disengage that way. i'll see if i can take a picture later if that description doesn't make sense.

The difficulty I have is mostly that my thumb slips off the ramped part of the cage. There's nothing to really catch on.

After several years I have come to believe the plain old back lock is the superior mechanism for a few reasons.

The spring pressure that keeps the blade closed is a huge benefit. I can't count the number of times I have had a "high end" titanium frame lock open accidentally in my pocket. Ball detents wear out over time and just don't have enough retention. Liner/frame locks are also a flawed mechanism in general. They can or eventually, almost always, wear to the point when they can be overcome by spine pressure. Titanium liners or frames are just way too finicky for me to trust on a daily basis and I'm talking about Chris Reeve, Hinderer, Strider, Emerson, customs, whatever.

A back lock can't be forced closed except with the near destruction of the entire knife itself or a complete shearing of the backspring tang tab. It's a tried and true design that's been around. It also appears to be cheaper to make than the compression or BBLs. These days I prefer a knife that I'm not scared to lose or use.

The BBL is probably the next best mechanism.

I don't think that's true. Looking at the para 3, manix 2 and native 5, the native 5 is the most expensive. For the LW model that's probably because the native 5 LW has S30V and the other 2 have BD1N. For the G10 model, the native 5 and manix 2 both have S30V and the manix 2 is considerably cheaper though.

[WyoJon]

How is that all serrated edge system working out for you?

I carried only a serrated edge atlantic salt for years in college and after. Never once wished I had a plain edge on me. Sold it when I went through a benchmade only phase. Now im back to carrying a tasman salt serrated edge and love it. Ive never seen a knife before that pushing straight down can slice, push cut, and puncture with the tip, all on that same plain of travel. This knife is really something. Slices slashes and stabs with ease. The blade pulls itself right into the cut all the way to the handle, and slices everything to shreds. Makes cardboard a breeze. The h1 steel sharpens so easy.

Going great, it's practically all I buy anymore unless I really want a model that is only offered in PE. I'm actually hoping we see a SE Manix 2 in a steel I like coming out soon.

For use it works better than plain. For collecting, might as well since the spyder edge is a spyderco original.

[cjk]

Yes to get the thread back on track, I agree I'd love to see more CBBL. I think either a redux of the QBall; the Native, the sage would be awesome. Heck I'd take a look at any new model with a CBBL.

A re-imagined CBBL QBall would be superb.

[cjk]

...
Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
....

I would like to see more CBBL knives also. There is also the P'kal in the 2023 product guide, but it's much less often produced and more specialized. Frequently out of stock too.

[WyoJon]

...
Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
....

I would like to see more CBBL knives also. There is also the P'kal in the 2023 product guide, but it's much less often produced and more specialized. Frequently out of stock too.

I think the native would be perfect for it

[cjk]

...
Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
....

I would like to see more CBBL knives also. There is also the P'kal in the 2023 product guide, but it's much less often produced and more specialized. Frequently out of stock too.

I think the native would be perfect for it

To be really honest, I'd probably rather see something completely new than a native 5 (or Chief) with a CBBL.
I have much interest in locks with a close bias as I often just drop a pocketknife in my pocket unclipped. Back locks have better self close/close bias than the CBBL, so I personally wouldn't see a CBBL Native as an improvement.

[WyoJon]

...
Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
....

I would like to see more CBBL knives also. There is also the P'kal in the 2023 product guide, but it's much less often produced and more specialized. Frequently out of stock too.

I think the native would be perfect for it

To be really honest, I'd probably rather see something completely new than a native 5 (or Chief) with a CBBL.
I have much interest in locks with a close bias as I often just drop a pocketknife in my pocket unclipped. Back locks have better self close/close bias than the CBBL, so I personally wouldn't see a CBBL Native as an improvement.

A native shape the length of an endura with the caged ball lock is what i want.

[WyoJon]

I have big hands. Maybe a 5" blade for good measure.

[toomanyquestions]

I also wish a CBBL were offered on another platform. Perhaps a hybrid knife would suffice - a blade from model X, and a handle from model Y + a CBBL. Something in the 2.5-3.5" blade range.

[vandelay]

...
Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
....

I would like to see more CBBL knives also. There is also the P'kal in the 2023 product guide, but it's much less often produced and more specialized. Frequently out of stock too.

I think the native would be perfect for it

To be really honest, I'd probably rather see something completely new than a native 5 (or Chief) with a CBBL.
I have much interest in locks with a close bias as I often just drop a pocketknife in my pocket unclipped. Back locks have better self close/close bias than the CBBL, so I personally wouldn't see a CBBL Native as an improvement.

Yeah I feel similarly. I think the CBBL is cool but I can't think of anything practical it offers me over a back lock. They've got less close bias then back locks, I find them a little more awkward to close due to the strong spring pressure combined with the ramped cage design, they don't work with 4 way carry, and I'm scared to try disassembling one.

I'd prefer to see some evolution of the lock design more than anything at this point. I don't think much is going to top the design of the native or manix for me, but something like a self-close mechanism or a better release for a comp lock (like a smock) would get me interested.

[TTFulltimer]

Getting cut just once cured me from one hand closing. Mostly I open and close two handed. I prefer the back lock in every case. Liner lock second. That CBBL is a pain to use on the manix as there is on gimping on the upper portion of the back of the knife. Nothing to jam against your palm. And that screwball lock jams up more than it does not jam. Now you have to wiggle the blade to make it release. PITA for sure.

[Wartstein]

Yeah I feel similarly. I think the CBBL is cool but I can't think of anything practical it offers me over a back lock. They've got less close bias then back locks, I find them a little more awkward to close due to the strong spring pressure combined with the ramped cage design, they don't work with 4 way carry, and I'm scared to try disassembling one.

I'd prefer to see some evolution of the lock design more than anything at this point. I don't think much is going to top the design of the native or manix for me, but something like a self-close mechanism or a better release for a comp lock (like a smock) would get me interested.

I mostly agree, though I really like the CBBL (but a little less than a good backlock) and don´t find it awkward to close personally

Two things a CBBL potentlally still does "better" than a backlock:

- Less movement of the blade (in my experience certainly less up and down (no lock rock), but also side to side): Not important to me personally though

- People who want that "fingers out of the blade path" thing (or rather want to move the fingers out of the blade path right in the beginning of the closing process and not later on) might find that easier and more intuitive with a CBBL than with a backlock.
The "fingers out of the blade path" method even seems to be the most known and popular one with the CBBL, while many seemingly don´t even know how to do it with a backlock.

[toomanyquestions]

Mostly I open and close two handed. I prefer the back lock in every case. Liner lock second. That CBBL is a pain to use on the manix...And that screwball lock jams up more than it does not jam. Now you have to wiggle the blade to make it release. PITA for sure.

In your experience the CBBL lock occasionally jams? If so, do you have a theory about why this is the case? On the other side of the coin, I have heard back-locks can wear enough that blade wiggle arises. Has this been true in your experience?

[James Y]

I use a simple method when closing comp locks. I press the tab with my middle finger, then push the back of the blade with my index finger. If the blade doesn't close all the way by that, I simply push it the rest of the way shut with my thumb. It sounds complex but it's not, and I can do it as quickly as other people's "drop-shutty" methods, but with less chance of accidentally dropping the knife during use. Not that I think closing a knife is a speed contest. I simply feel that I have better control with this method.

Jim

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

My thought on locks.
Don't like liner locks.
Don't like frame locks.
Never tried ball bearing lock or compression lock.
I like the ABLE lock from Hogue.
I also like the Deadbolt lock.
And I like back locks which comprise 75% of my current knives. Probably my favorite.

[chkn]

I find it hard enough to operate a CBBL two fingered, let alone one. Maybe I got an abnormally strong spring on mine. Most of my issue is that the cage shape doesn't have an edge to push into. You're always pushing onto a ramp so it's hard to get enough grip.

This has been my issue with CBBLs as well. I've gotten an aftermarket spring with less tension on my Manix 2 XL and it's easy to unlock with one finger now. The tradeoff though is there is less "detent" keeping the blade closed.