Locks

[WyoJon]

Id like to hear about locks on knifes. Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock? I find it to be excellent, and enjoy the axis lock on a few benchmade models I own.

Liner locks seem to be less popular than before. I hate them being left handed. The one on my zt 0393 seems ok. I know the old millitary knives had them. Would users of those consider them to be less capable than the compression lock?

With the compression lock being so wonderful, why is the simple lock back design so prevelant? I do love the spyderco half length lock back. Zero complaints. So then why do we need the compression lock?

Id like to hear any thoughts on knife locks anyone else has.

[ladybug93]

lots of people like backlocks and cbbl for the close bias, meaning there is some resistance to open that causes the knife to close back if it's opened a little. both of these locks are also fully ambidextrous.

detent locks like the compression lock and liner lock are only held closed by the detent. once the detent is overcome, the blade will not snap closed. both of these locks are also typically best for a specific hand, even though there are ways to use them with the opposite hand.

the cbbl and compression lock both represent spyderco innovation to me. i like them both a lot. one of the things i love about spyderco is that they aren't afraid to try new things. almost everyone carrying a knife has spyderco to thank for some feature on the knife, regardless of the manufacturer. locks are only a small part of that.

[elena86]

So you’re saying that the comp lock is “ wonderful” yet you’re asking why do we “need “ the comp lock ?! Because it’s so wonderful…

[Mushroom]

Why do we need compression locks? The answer is variety. That question could apply to any lock though, asking “why do we need a backlock?” Is just as valid. I’d say the answer remains the same too, variety. As Sal would say, “All good, just different.”

The whole liner lock vs compression lock debate often gets blown way out of proportion too. I have no agenda against either lock, so I’ll just say they’re both good locks, and leave that there.

[JoviAl]

I agree with Mushroom - variety is definitely a boon for end users. I use solely Spyderco knives with compression locks or ball locks for work, which is outdoors in the tropics all day. I want a convenient to open and close 3.5 to 4 inch bladed knife, where my fingers don’t enter the blade path when closing and I can whip it open quickly (I use a knife every few minutes on average, but I work around small children so strolling around with it open is not acceptable). I’m even more thrilled if it’s open backed so I can wash all the filth out easily at the end of the day.

I’m sure other folk have different personal proclivities or use cases that incline them towards other locks, back spacers, etc. Each to their own. It would be a bland old world if we were all the same. I’ve heard there are even some folk that enjoy Case knives, although I’ve never met one in real life so it could just be an urban legend

[Wartstein]

- We've discussed this in another thread (,viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94155&start=20#p1690570) but I am still wondering why you as a lefty activate7 a (righty) linerlock with the thumb, and not just the index finger?
I am not a lefty, but still operating a linerlock left handed with the index finger and guiding the blade with the thumb is very easy, natural and safe for me. Takes little repositioning of the fingers too, much less than as if I'd use the thumb on the locktab - again, talking bout a RIGHT hand linerlock in the LEFT hand!

Activating a right handed linerlock in the left hand with the thumb though: Yes, I'd hate that too, it is quite akward - but why do it like this then?
No offense meant of course btw., I just really don't unterstand...

[vandelay]

If you're left handed or wearing gloves, you need to operate a comp lock with your thumb similarly to how you operate a back lock. It negates a lot of the advantages. I also just find the thumb unlock on a liner lock more comfortable than unlocking a comp lock. In theory spyderco could reverse the liner so you unlock the comp lock similarly to a liner lock, but I doubt they'll ever do that. The smock button style comp lock is probably the better path forward.

Back locks are also better at staying closed. If you drop a knife that stays shut with a detent, often the blade will just fly open when it hits the ground. Back locks have a spring forcing them closed, so they tend to stay shut. It's not a big deal if you're carrying with it clipped to the pocket, but it can be in other cases.

CBBLs are pretty nice. They've got more close bias than a detent based lock and I find them more comfortable to operate than a comp lock. They're ambidextrous and easy to operate in gloves.

>why do we need the compression lock?
I think their main selling point is just that they're more fun to use than other locks, on top of being extremely strong and keeping your fingers out of the cutting path. It's hard to compete with that.

>Why is the manix 2 the only spyderco in production with a caged ball bearing lock?
It's a bit of a shame that it's not offered in more knives. I'd imagine size is a concern with it. I can't imagine squeezing that mechanism into a lil' native, as much as I'd love that.

[Wartstein]

On the CBBL:

Yes, I'd love to see more Spydies with that lock type too, though they'll have their good reasons why this is not the case.

One disadvantage I could see with the CBBL is that it takes up quite some space in the handle, and so some designs could be hard to do with this locktype (narrow, "not tall" handles plus blade without a choil for example).

It could also be more prone to gather dust and dirt than other locks, though I never found that to be a problem even in messy outdoor use.

And some folks find it hard to operate, at least with just one (and not two) fingers.

Other than that: Great lock, for me personally between the genuine Spyderco looks superior to the comp lock (totally ambidextrous, stronger detent, many ways of safe operation).

[Wartstein]

...
>why do we need the compression lock?
I think their main selling point is just that they're more fun to use than other locks, on top of being extremely strong and keeping your fingers out of the cutting path. It's hard to compete with that....

Good points!

... I'd just like to point out again that CBBL and backlock can also easily be operated with fingers out of the blade path, just like the comp.lock... and I figure both are just as strong. So no real difference in that regard for me between those three.

And with a linerlock (at least on folders with choil) the fingers are kept safe from the edge anyway, cause one literally almost can't activate the lock tab without putting the finger that does so in a position where it'd be hit by the choil/ricasso before the other fingers could get hit by the actual edge.

[vandelay]

...
>why do we need the compression lock?
I think their main selling point is just that they're more fun to use than other locks, on top of being extremely strong and keeping your fingers out of the cutting path. It's hard to compete with that....

Good points!

... I'd just like to point out again that CBBL and backlock can also easily be operated with fingers out of the blade path, just like the comp.lock... and I figure both are just as strong. So no real difference in that regard for me between those three.

And with a linerlock (at least on folders with choil) the fingers are kept safe from the edge anyway, cause one literally almost can't activate the lock tab without putting the finger that does so in a position where it'd be hit by the choil/ricasso before the other fingers could get hit by the actual edge.

Yeah CBBL and comp both do well in terms of strength and safe closing. Comps are just more fidget friendly. They flick open in a really satisfying way. You can flick a CBBL and some back locks but they don't have the same feeling.

With liner locks, safety can vary. Plenty of designs, such as the military, have something blunt hit your finger before the blade. Others, like the techno 2, have your finger in the blade path. I've had knives where the blade's coming at your finger and I don't think it's too unsafe but I wouldn't want a drop shut knife like that.
Back locks almost always have the choil/ricasso hitting your finger while closing the blade, so fingers in the closing path isn't that big of a deal there. You do need to be careful when moving your fingers out of the way though.

[Wartstein]

[quote=vandelay post_id=1690691 time=1674972300

Yeah CBBL and comp both do well in terms of strength and safe closing. Comps are just more fidget friendly. They flick open in a really satisfying way. You can flick a CBBL and some back locks but they don't have the same feeling.

With liner locks, safety can vary. Plenty of designs, such as the military, have something blunt hit your finger before the blade. Others, like the techno 2, have your finger in the blade path. I've had knives where the blade's coming at your finger and I don't think it's too unsafe but I wouldn't want a drop shut knife like that.
...

- True, comp.locks certainly tend to flick open more easily!
I personally though happen to enjoy the increased resistance CBBL and backlock have when flicking them open (I like to flick open backlocks with each of the 5 fingers, pinky in a reverse grip of course).
I am in a minority here most likely, I know...

- Yes, not all linerlocks offer that natural and inevitable safety feature. Such with a good finger choil normally do, my Tenacious has still enough of a hidden ricasso that that normally would hit the thumb before the actual edge hit the other fingers, but it is already not 100% safein that regard.

[Wartstein]

..

....
Back locks almost always have the choil/ricasso hitting your finger while closing the blade, so fingers in the closing path isn't that big of a deal there. You do need to be careful when moving your fingers out of the way though.

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

[vandelay]

..

....
Back locks almost always have the choil/ricasso hitting your finger while closing the blade, so fingers in the closing path isn't that big of a deal there. You do need to be careful when moving your fingers out of the way though.

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

Yeah that's true. I tend not to think of that as the way to close back locks because I find it uncomfortable on the back locks I own.

[Evil D]

Well, if simple and effective were a good reason to not have variety we would have a lot less options in everything in life.

I do love the spyderco half length lock back. Zero complaints. So then why do we need the compression lock?

I think you'll get a lot of responses about what people like and dislike and why, but I think to answer that question specifically, when Spyderco started making knives they were either paying royalties for patented lock designs or maybe by then the patents for some locks had run out and they were able to use them for free, but they were using someone else's design. The Compression Lock and CBBL are both Spyderco designs, so I would imagine that Sal and Eric and the whole gang just wanted their own designs, and if nothing else making their own design meant they don't have to pay those royalties, which means more profit and then you also gain a proprietary product of your own that you can market and drive sales with. They're also knife makers and knife enthusiasts, they probably just simply enjoyed doing it. Spyderco have been innovating knife concepts since the very first knife they produced, and they wouldn't just stop innovating with thumb holes and pocket clips, they move on to better steels and better ergonomics and eventually they would have come to the lock and saw that even though it's effective, maybe it could be better. In the end even if what they create is only equally effective, again it's their own design, their own marketable product feature, and it's an option that customers may choose and that drives sales.

Then if you're really smart you keep looking for ways to make the tried and true back lock better and better and you keep producing that same lock that you have since the first knife, and you market other locks as being better/stronger/whatever, and after 40 years you have a catalog of knives that people can choose from and people eventually start debating about what is stronger and what is better, when ultimately in the end a knife sale is a knife sale and it doesn't even matter what lock you prefer, as long as you're buying their product. Nearly every company does this, they build a product for everyone so they increase their customer base. How many companies can you think of that make only one item, one way, without any optional features? Cars, shoes, clothes, electronics, even food and drinks, there are companies who make as many options as they can to reach as many customers as they can. If you owned Coke and Pepsi under one bigger parent company, it wouldn't matter to you which was the bigger selling drink because you make money off both.

And man I've gotta stop replying to comments when I first wake up because wow do I ramble but there ya go. They don't make a Compression Lock because it's better than a Back Lock, they do it because it's smart business.

[RustyIron]

And man I've gotta stop replying to comments when I first wake up because wow do I ramble but there ya go.

If you can say what you're thinking in two sentences, then you don't really have much to say. There's a place for people like that. It's called Twitter.

My favorite Spyderco lock is the CBBL. I like the Axis lock better, but I like the Spyderco knife better. You can easily tell which I prioritize because I'm here and not on the Benchmade Forum.

The Compression Lock could be great... if they were all left handed. The right handed version is just "good."

Liner locks and frame locks, even left-handers, seem like something I would use if I got sucked into a wormhole and was transported back to the 1990's.

Back Locks, while unexciting, just work. You can't go wrong with a good mid back lock. So if Spyderco can't squeeze a CBBL or LH Compression Lock into the knife, a mid back lock is what I want.

[Bemo]

..

....
Back locks almost always have the choil/ricasso hitting your finger while closing the blade, so fingers in the closing path isn't that big of a deal there. You do need to be careful when moving your fingers out of the way though.

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

Nice video. Suppose if you have rock climber hands or black smith hands that works well.

[Wartstein]

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

Nice video. Suppose if you have rock climber hands or black smith hands that works well.

Absolutely not necessary!

In fact I gifted an ffg Delica to a Lady not too long ago. She does not have "rock climber or black smith hands", but it still took her just about a minute to close the knife consistently with the "back lock finger all the time out of the blade path" method (and it is even a bit harder with a Delica due to its light blade).

To be clear: I find that "fingers all the time out of the blade path" thing completely overhyped and actually not a "thing" at all.

BUT: IF people still want that: Works perfectly well with a backlock too. I think people are just not willing to try four or five times if it feels awkward the first time. Probably another one of those cases where folks hindered by a myth in their minds... this time "backlocks can´t be closed with fingers out of the blade path" (unless one just does it... )

[WyoJon]

Ive always let the bottom of the blade hit my index finger

[Wartstein]

...

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

Yeah that's true. I tend not to think of that as the way to close back locks because I find it uncomfortable on the back locks I own.

It gets quite comfortable when one gets a bit used to that method.. but then it is not necessary at all imo, just like the a bit weird (and in OTHER aspects a bit "unsafe") pinch grip comp.lock closing method is perhaps fun, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Actually even with a CBBL I almost never use the "usual" fingers out of the blade path method (CBBL is always on a Manix, and its choil will keep the fingers safe in any case), but rather one of the three methods below (again short clips I made once for this thread viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252 )

https://streamable.com/79jhhr

https://streamable.com/f9gm4s

https://streamable.com/tep9bx

[Bemo]

No, I meant that backlocks can be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, exactly like comp lock and CBBL.
Just one of quite some ways of operating a backlock, see this short clip I made once (one time done slow, then two times normal speed)

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

Nice video. Suppose if you have rock climber hands or black smith hands that works well.

Absolutely not necessary!

In fact I gifted an ffg Delica to a Lady not too long ago. She does not have "rock climber or black smith hands", but it still took her just about a minute to close the knife consistently with the "back lock finger all the time out of the blade path" method (and it is even a bit harder with a Delica due to its light blade).

To be clear: I find that "fingers all the time out of the blade path" thing completely overhyped and actually not a "thing" at all.

BUT: IF people still want that: Works perfectly well with a backlock too. I think people are just not willing to try four or five times if it feels awkward the first time. Probably another one of those cases where folks hindered by a myth in their minds... this time "backlocks can´t be closed with fingers out of the blade path" (unless one just does it... )

Well sad to say you're young lady has stronger fingers than I. Maybe with a lock that's more broken in than my new Leaf Jumper that might work. I'll have to try some of my other knives.