"sharpener's steels"

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
GarageBoy
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#21

Post by GarageBoy »

What's the opposite? Soft steels get gummy and don't like to get crispy. People used to complain about buck when they used 440c, but I guess they were trying to sharpen it with Arkansas stones. ZDP189 and S110V also had bad reputations, though again, not sure if it was people using the wrong abrasives or properties inherent to the steel
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#22

Post by z1r »

I think different people will have different opinions depending on their abilities, their equipment, and their expectations. I love ZDP, but wouldn't call it fun to sharpen. However, unlike S110V, I can get it to a point where I am happy with the edge I get in terms of sharpness and relative to the effort I expend. I just can't get S110V to the same level.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#23

Post by JD Spydo »

Of all the blade steels that Spyderco ever used I found to be a monster to sharpen the older CPM-440V has to be my most dreaded of them all. There have been times I've even learned new curse words sharpening 440V. There is such a high vanadium content which I believe must contribute to being a mean steel to sharpen. It's really a job to sharpen a full SE 440V blade.

If I ever find a blade steel that I think is more stubborn to sharpen than 440V I'll let you all know.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#24

Post by Scandi Grind »

I find it interesting that VG-10 has been listed in this thread a couple times, but I have been getting the totally opposite vibe from some kitchen knife enthusiasts. I was actually surprised to hear opinions describing VG-10 on Japanese kitchen knives as chip prone, gummy on stones, and more difficult to sharpen than most other options. It isn't just because they are comparing to high carbon alternatives either because I have heard them speak well about almost any other stainless common to high end Japanese knives.

My theory is that it is a heat treatment issue, because some people have spoken very highly of VG-10 kitchen knives, but I cant really say.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#25

Post by Foehammer »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 pm
Deburring is the most underrated feature for a "sharpeners" steel.
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#26

Post by ChrisinHove »

JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:50 am
Of all the blade steels that Spyderco ever used I found to be a monster to sharpen the older CPM-440V has to be my most dreaded of them all. There have been times I've even learned new curse words sharpening 440V. There is such a high vanadium content which I believe must contribute to being a mean steel to sharpen. It's really a job to sharpen a full SE 440V blade.

If I ever find a blade steel that I think is more stubborn to sharpen than 440V I'll let you all know.
I found the same. I picked up an original Terzuola a couple of years ago. I love the knife but don’t ever want to sharpen it again :rofl

I have used Vg10, Hap40, M4 enough to know I enjoy sharpening them - maybe that just makes them “beginners steels”! My Cruwear Ayoob returned to razor sharp with a light SM pass. I haven’t used my Spy27 N5 enough yet.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#27

Post by Wandering_About »

Some of my favorites: MagnaCut, SPY27, 15V. Maxamet and K390 do pretty well for me also.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#28

Post by Evil D »

Best I've experienced = 52100. My Military sprint is just a joy to sharpen, it takes practically nothing to get it blazing sharp.

Worst I've experienced = 154CM. I had one of the original Manix 2's when they first came in this steel, and it was the gummiest, burr prone nightmare to sharpen. Might have been my technique at the time but I've avoided it ever since.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#29

Post by Deadboxhero »

JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:50 am
Of all the blade steels that Spyderco ever used I found to be a monster to sharpen the older CPM-440V has to be my most dreaded of them all. There have been times I've even learned new curse words sharpening 440V. There is such a high vanadium content which I believe must contribute to being a mean steel to sharpen. It's really a job to sharpen a full SE 440V blade.

If I ever find a blade steel that I think is more stubborn to sharpen than 440V I'll let you all know.
There's not even really that much vanadium in 440V/ CPM S60V and it doesn't even really make that much vanadium carbide.

The CPM S60V of today wouldn't have the same problems.

The entire knife and steel industry has come a long way.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#30

Post by Deadboxhero »

Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:29 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 pm
Deburring is the most underrated feature for a "sharpeners" steel.
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?

Yeah there's a little switch underneath the sharpmaker that has to be moved to "deburr" 🤣
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#31

Post by Deadboxhero »

Erich wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:58 pm
sethwm wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:25 pm
cruwear in my opinion is a joy to sharpen. Today I started carrying my cruwear delica again.

This youtube video refers to cruwear as a "sharpener's steel". Also super blue. What else do folk's consider to be in that category? SPY27 perhaps?

Super Blue, SPY27, and Cruwear are all fundamentally different steels. "Sharpener's steel" is an inherently vague and relative term, just like "super steel."

Before I got my edge pro recently I was watching this guy's videos for sharpening advice but he is a poor communicator. He muddles the water with buzzwords and in the few and brief videos he did about sharpening he gets frustrated and begins talking down to the audience. I left a down vote and moved on.

You basically have different degrees of wear resistance. The more wear resistant, the longer it takes to sharpen, the more passes you need etc.

A lot of these knife guys like Christy are just showmanship and egoism. Cliff Stamp mentioned this and he was right. You need to be skeptical with the internet. It's rare to find someone actually interested in teaching. Cliff Stamp, Murray Carter, and Nick Shabazz are the guys I listen to. I don't agree with all of them on everything but they all can make good points on their own and generally have good attitudes. Larrin's website is a great resource on steels.
Nope, Michael Christy is a good dude and expert sharpener, the language he uses makes sense amongst sharpeners. Keep in mind, it can be difficult to package information and speak in a way to get things across to both fellow expert sharpeners and people that have casual interest without marginalizing one group or another. Michael has chosen to speak to a more niche audience.

He was a pioneer and getting steels like CPM S110V etc hair whittling sharp back when it was believed these kinds of steels were incapable of getting to such levels of sharpness.

Besmirching Christy is unappreciated, but you are entitled to your own opinion.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#32

Post by Foehammer »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:56 pm
Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:29 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 pm
Deburring is the most underrated feature for a "sharpeners" steel.
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?

Yeah there's a little switch underneath the sharpmaker that has to be moved to "deburr" 🤣
😂 lol; but seriously, doesn’t alternating strokes in theory deburr as you go?
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#33

Post by z1r »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:05 pm

Nope, Michael Christy is a good dude and expert sharpener, ..........

He was a pioneer and getting steels like CPM S110V etc hair whittling sharp back when it was believed these kinds of steels were incapable of getting to such levels of sharpness.
Can you point me in the direction to this info? I'd greatly appreciate it as I have not been able to get my S110V to that level and clearly either lack the tools or skills needed. I'd love to learn as I dearly like my S110V PM2.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#34

Post by Evil D »

Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:40 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:56 pm
Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:29 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 pm
Deburring is the most underrated feature for a "sharpeners" steel.
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?

Yeah there's a little switch underneath the sharpmaker that has to be moved to "deburr" 🤣
😂 lol; but seriously, doesn’t alternating strokes in theory deburr as you go?



Depends on the steel and the grit you're sharpening with, and how much force you're using. It's actually quite easy to make a burr and end up just pushing it side to side all day. Loupe is your friend.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#35

Post by Foehammer »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:26 pm
Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:40 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:56 pm
Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:29 am


Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?

Yeah there's a little switch underneath the sharpmaker that has to be moved to "deburr" 🤣
😂 lol; but seriously, doesn’t alternating strokes in theory deburr as you go?



Depends on the steel and the grit you're sharpening with, and how much force you're using. It's actually quite easy to make a burr and end up just pushing it side to side all day. Loupe is your friend.
Thanks!
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#36

Post by jdw »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:51 pm
Best I've experienced = 52100. My Military sprint is just a joy to sharpen, it takes practically nothing to get it blazing sharp.
Worst I've experienced = 154CM. I had one of the original Manix 2's when they first came in this steel, and it was the gummiest, burr prone nightmare to sharpen. Might have been my technique at the time but I've avoided it ever since.

100% agree with this. The 52100 Military is my favorite knife that I own.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#37

Post by GarageBoy »

z1r wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:56 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:05 pm

Nope, Michael Christy is a good dude and expert sharpener, ..........

He was a pioneer and getting steels like CPM S110V etc hair whittling sharp back when it was believed these kinds of steels were incapable of getting to such levels of sharpness.
Can you point me in the direction to this info? I'd greatly appreciate it as I have not been able to get my S110V to that level and clearly either lack the tools or skills needed. I'd love to learn as I dearly like my S110V PM2.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#38

Post by abbazaba »

M4 has been my benchmark. Joy to use, easy to sharpen. K390 followed that M4 experience better than anything IMO.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#39

Post by JD Spydo »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:55 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:50 am
Of all the blade steels that Spyderco ever used I found to be a monster to sharpen the older CPM-440V has to be my most dreaded of them all. There have been times I've even learned new curse words sharpening 440V. There is such a high vanadium content which I believe must contribute to being a mean steel to sharpen. It's really a job to sharpen a full SE 440V blade.

If I ever find a blade steel that I think is more stubborn to sharpen than 440V I'll let you all know.
There's not even really that much vanadium in 440V/ CPM S60V and it doesn't even really make that much vanadium carbide.

The CPM S60V of today wouldn't have the same problems.

The entire knife and steel industry has come a long way.
Well I sure got some bad information then. Because I had one of the guys from Crucible at one of the BLADE Shows years ago tell me that 440V had a high vanadium content ( the 2005 show I think it was). He also told me that they mainly marketed that 440V ( S60V) for the tool & die industry. I'm now wondering if that wasn't BS as well. I believe you because you've been here a long time and I've always trusted your input here on the Forum.

But I still rank 440V as being one of the top 3 worst blade steels to sharpen. Even working with diamond sharpening tools it's still really stubborn to get the angles right and to obtain an initial burr. For me 440V is still one of my favorite blade steels for fully serrated blades. But I can think of at least 2 dozen blade steels that I like better for plain edges. Thanks for setting the record straight.
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Re: "sharpener's steels"

#40

Post by Matt Deaner »

M4, cruwear, 3v, cpm154cm, vg-10 - all wonderful to sharpen.
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