"sharpener's steels"

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
MFlovejp
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:06 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#41

Post by MFlovejp »

Also XHP AND LC200N- joyful to sharpen and take a wicked edge. I think BBB nailed it when he talked about ease of deburring, that counts for a lot.
Current Carries: Military 4V, Stretch XL Cruwear, Sage 1 CF, Siren Sprint S90V, ZDP Delica
Wishlist: Cruwear Military, Super Blue Caly 3.5
Favorite Steels: CTS-XHP, Cruwear, ZDP-189, LC200N
User avatar
p_atrick
Member
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Boston Area

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#42

Post by p_atrick »

What makes a steel deburr better than others? I've recently started the Larrin's Knife Engineering book, so perhaps I'll discover the answer soon-ish. I'm guessing hardness plays a part in deburring. Not all steels are (or can be) heat treated like K390. Is there some threshold (like 60 HRC) where steels deburr well? Do the carbides affect the ability to deburr? If so, how?
GarageBoy
Member
Posts: 2215
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#43

Post by GarageBoy »

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:39 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:55 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:50 am
Of all the blade steels that Spyderco ever used I found to be a monster to sharpen the older CPM-440V has to be my most dreaded of them all. There have been times I've even learned new curse words sharpening 440V. There is such a high vanadium content which I believe must contribute to being a mean steel to sharpen. It's really a job to sharpen a full SE 440V blade.

If I ever find a blade steel that I think is more stubborn to sharpen than 440V I'll let you all know.
There's not even really that much vanadium in 440V/ CPM S60V and it doesn't even really make that much vanadium carbide.

The CPM S60V of today wouldn't have the same problems.

The entire knife and steel industry has come a long way.
Well I sure got some bad information then. Because I had one of the guys from Crucible at one of the BLADE Shows years ago tell me that 440V had a high vanadium content ( the 2005 show I think it was). He also told me that they mainly marketed that 440V ( S60V) for the tool & die industry. I'm now wondering if that wasn't BS as well. I believe you because you've been here a long time and I've always trusted your input here on the Forum.

But I still rank 440V as being one of the top 3 worst blade steels to sharpen. Even working with diamond sharpening tools it's still really stubborn to get the angles right and to obtain an initial burr. For me 440V is still one of my favorite blade steels for fully serrated blades. But I can think of at least 2 dozen blade steels that I like better for plain edges. Thanks for setting the record straight.
High vanadium for what was regularly available as knife steels at the time, I'm guessing.

Like saying a 1984 Corvette is high horsepower and quick.
User avatar
Senfkarte
Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:06 pm
Location: Germany

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#44

Post by Senfkarte »

It seems like CPM-CruWear just wants to get sharp. Always fun sharpening this steel. Super fast and super sharp.


I really like to sharpen CPM-M4. It just works for me. Great edge without any hassle.


K390 also produces very, very nice edges. But it takes a little longer than the other two. On the other hand, the edge also lasts longer.


My experience with CPM-S90V is also great. But I don't have sharpened that much of this steel.
Vaugith
Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:37 am

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#45

Post by Vaugith »

p_atrick wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:37 am
What makes a steel deburr better than others? I've recently started the Larrin's Knife Engineering book, so perhaps I'll discover the answer soon-ish. I'm guessing hardness plays a part in deburring. Not all steels are (or can be) heat treated like K390. Is there some threshold (like 60 HRC) where steels deburr well? Do the carbides affect the ability to deburr? If so, how?
HRC helps but it's not the whole story. Microstructure is key. Retained austenite vs martensite. I'm not a heat treat expert but I believe small details in the protocol such as exact austenitizing tempurature as well as larger details such as cryo quench vs just an oil quench and number of tempering cycles all play a role here.

The good news is that in my experience spyderco generally does a fantastic job heat treating any steel they touch. From really advanced stuff that takes very special considerations such as maxamet all the way down to 8cr13mov.
MFlovejp
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:06 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#46

Post by MFlovejp »

Urkilnmesmalls wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:01 am
I second cruwear. So easy to get a beautiful edge on. I’m also surprised nobody has mentioned zdp189 yet. I love the stuff and it sharpens so well


I will second that! ZDP is one of my favorites, just seems to want to get sharp.
Current Carries: Military 4V, Stretch XL Cruwear, Sage 1 CF, Siren Sprint S90V, ZDP Delica
Wishlist: Cruwear Military, Super Blue Caly 3.5
Favorite Steels: CTS-XHP, Cruwear, ZDP-189, LC200N
vivi
Member
Posts: 13846
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#47

Post by vivi »

low carbide carbon steels run at a high hardness (61-65rc) are hard to beat in this respect. Easy to grind, and the high hardness means the burr is easier to deal with vs mid 50's steel.
:unicorn
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15046
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#48

Post by Wartstein »

Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:40 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:56 pm
Foehammer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:29 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 pm
Deburring is the most underrated feature for a "sharpeners" steel.
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Doesn’t the Sharpmaker essentially deburr for you with normal use?

Yeah there's a little switch underneath the sharpmaker that has to be moved to "deburr" 🤣
😂 lol; but seriously, doesn’t alternating strokes in theory deburr as you go?
Something along these lines has always been a question of mine (just basic sharpening skills) too:

Actually the Sharpmaker is sold as an easy solution for everyone, also/especially folks who are not pros at sharpening.

Alternating strokes is what the sm manual suggests, and if this would not work and would very likely just produce a burr that's hard to remove or just pushed from side to side, the Sharpmaker in its intended use would not make a lot of sense, right?

I am not saying that sharpening one side, then remove the burr would perhaps give me even better results than alternating strokes on the sharpmaker. But the latter technique on this tool works well for me indeed with quite a variety of steels (admittedly rather such that are seemingly not too hard to sharpen anyway they say, like BD1N, VG10, S30V, S35VN REX45, XHP, LC 200N, H1, 1095, 8CR and some more)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Steeltoez83
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:51 am

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#49

Post by Steeltoez83 »

I think of sharpener steels as novice friendly stuff. Steels that encourage rather than discourage folks. Deburring is essential but having a steel that performs well at a toothy coarse and a high luster polish is my definition. Cruwear, vtoku2, xhp, vg10, super blue, s45vn, spy27, bd1, bucks 420hc.
"Nothing is built on stone; all is built on sand, but we must build as if the sand were stone."
Sharp24/7
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:45 am

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#50

Post by Sharp24/7 »

I’m liking how MagnaCut sharpens up. I’d say it’s similar to XHP provided you use diamonds.
prndltech
Member
Posts: 3128
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: 512

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#51

Post by prndltech »

Vg10, h1, s30v, cruwear and let us not forget aus8 and bd1n! Those 2 are such a joy and I don’t think anyone has mentioned it yet.
- Shannon

MNOSD 0006
Ric
Member
Posts: 875
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:52 pm
Location: Austria / Europe

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#52

Post by Ric »

Any carbon steel.
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15046
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#53

Post by Wartstein »

prndltech wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:50 pm
Vg10, h1, s30v, cruwear and let us not forget aus8 and bd1n! Those 2 are such a joy and I don’t think anyone has mentioned it yet.
Did not mention it in this thread indeed, but in several others already: For me BD1N has probably the best "ease of sharpening /edge holding -ratio" I have personally experienced so far (as far as a pretty mediocre sharpener like I am can tell).

This for me is due to how extremely easy and quick it sharpens, while being not great, but decent in edge retention.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
KawRiverrat
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:36 pm

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#54

Post by KawRiverrat »

In some ways this is an impossible thing. I cannot tell anyone how a steel works or doesn't. I can only comment on my
experience with the knives I've used & the steel as set up by maker in question.

EDIT : Sorry if I was supposed to keep this to steels that Sp[yderco is using or has in the past.

80CVRV2 : Referencing Winkler & the performance of his 80CRV2

This steel will strop back better in the field than any other I've used!
Keeping in mind there are many steels I've not tried.
If all I'm cutting is wood or flesh I could get along with 80CRV2 as done by Winkler for the rest of my life.

K390 : Referencing Spyderco & the performance of their K390

With its high edge retention, toughness, while strong enough to make use of a thinner blade than
some other steels used ... K390 as done by Spyderco is very easy to sharpen in light of its attributes.

Jeff, From KS
Last edited by KawRiverrat on Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gtscotty
Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:53 pm

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#55

Post by Gtscotty »

Magnacut comes to mind, also Cru-wear and Z-Max, really wish they'd just the latter in some production knives.
Superflex
Member
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#56

Post by Superflex »

52100 for the win.
LC200N is also a great steel to sharpen
I do like the feel of Cruwear on the SM rods. It feels like you are making progress with every stroke
samdasnake
Member
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:04 am
Location: Davis, CA

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#57

Post by samdasnake »

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:14 am
prndltech wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:50 pm
Vg10, h1, s30v, cruwear and let us not forget aus8 and bd1n! Those 2 are such a joy and I don’t think anyone has mentioned it yet.
Did not mention it in this thread indeed, but in several others already: For me BD1N has probably the best "ease of sharpening /edge holding -ratio" I have personally experienced so far (as far as a pretty mediocre sharpener like I am can tell).

This for me is due to how extremely easy and quick it sharpens, while being not great, but decent in edge retention.
I definitely agree that BD1N is a pleasure to sharpen and holds a very nice edge. And it's affordable. I love that a fair number of "budget" knives come in BD1N (both Spydies and others) because it is actually one of my favorites.
User avatar
elena86
Member
Posts: 3763
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#58

Post by elena86 »

No one mentioned N690Co. It’s easy peasy to bring it to a high level of sharpness. Cruwear and SPY27 are on the top of my list too.
Marius

" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it "
( Rabindranath Tagore )

Proud member of the old school spyderedge nation :bug-white-red
User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2685
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#59

Post by awa54 »

Scandi Grind wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:16 am
I find it interesting that VG-10 has been listed in this thread a couple times, but I have been getting the totally opposite vibe from some kitchen knife enthusiasts. I was actually surprised to hear opinions describing VG-10 on Japanese kitchen knives as chip prone, gummy on stones, and more difficult to sharpen than most other options. It isn't just because they are comparing to high carbon alternatives either because I have heard them speak well about almost any other stainless common to high end Japanese knives.

My theory is that it is a heat treatment issue, because some people have spoken very highly of VG-10 kitchen knives, but I cant really say.

I'm sure that some of that expressed dissatisfaction is down to the fact that laminate VG-10 is no longer anything like the "latest-greatest" in Japanese kitchen cutlery, plus there's a good chance some people on those forums are sharpening with Japanese style water stones, which are often quite soft and contain don't cut tool steels all that well compared to harder abrasives.

My experience with Tojiro (DP line) laminate VG-10 is that it feels slightly harder than the Spyderco HT and is a little easier to bring to a polished edge. This only applies to sharpening with XF diamond or hard J-nats for the final step, if I stay with synthetic water stones (not ceramics... haven't invested in them yet) through to polish (5k or 6k is my finest), then a truly blazing polished edge is almost impossible to attain, with a 1k or 2k edge outperforming the "finer" finish.
Shiro, Aogami and V2 all come to a killer edge on any stone fine enough to produce it.

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:51 pm
Best I've experienced = 52100. My Military sprint is just a joy to sharpen, it takes practically nothing to get it blazing sharp.

Worst I've experienced = 154CM. I had one of the original Manix 2's when they first came in this steel, and it was the gummiest, burr prone nightmare to sharpen. Might have been my technique at the time but I've avoided it ever since.

Totally agree on 52100!

I think like almost anything sharpening related, the experience with a given steel is colored by what stones and system you are using, my M2 154CM experience was that it sharpened easily and attained a very nice polished edge, but that was with a guided system and bonded diamond stones.
ZDP-189, XHP, S90V and others have given me a difficult time with SiC stones, Japanese water stones and natural stones, but aren't a big deal with my current set of Venev bonded diamond stones (or EZElap diamonds, but they have their own issues...).

Back when I first ventured into VG-10 with an A.G. Russel mini Ti lockback, even that steel was difficult to get good results with, using my Washita and hard Arkansas stones.
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
Big_Tex
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:34 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: "sharpener's steels"

#60

Post by Big_Tex »

I sat down to sharpen my k390 endela on my wicked edge using Diamond stones… didn’t know what to expect given the high HRC on those k390’s… I literally put my stones down after 5 minutes and laughed in disbelief and how quickly a bur formed and how easy it was to get it screaming sharp…
Bryan
Atlanta, GA
IG @BryanCBailey

Current pocket rotation:
Z-Wear/Micarta Shaman
Magnacut Native 5 LW
k390 Endela

:bug-red : 73 Spydies in the collection
Post Reply