CPM SPY 27 Long Term Use

[Deadboxhero]

That is why railroad track is made from steel high in vanadium.

What steel do they use?

From the casual googling I've done, it seems to be 1084 which isn't high vanadium?

https://www.fedsteel.com/insights/steel ... ay-tracks/

This mentions use of higher alloy steel rail in specialty use

The problem your going to have is that the global corporation that owns the track work foundries in america and much of the world is tight lipped about their process. Those who know are not allowed to talk about it.

It is well known rail track of modern production is high in vanadium

Nope

[Bolster]

By 'high in vanadium' are we talking small fractions of percentages of vanadium, or lots of vanadium, as in high vanadium knife steels (cf Maximet at 6% and 15V at 15%)? I found Vanitec who creates HD specialty rails specified with one tenth of 1% to one fifth of 1% vanadium.

[JSumm]

An updated PM VG-10 with better edge stability. That is how I would look at it.

Now I’m interested. I must have missed the memo.

Sal talked a little about it on here. There is also a good write up in the paperwork that comes with the SPY27 models. I can't get to it now, but I'll try to scan it later to upload here.

Thanks, Jeff.

Here you go!


Photo may be easier to read.

[RustyIron]

You didn't answer my questions

Not fair! Some of your questions were not covered in the Tik Tok video!

DBH, you might find this interesting. It was said buy a guy who was certainly a bit smarter than me. He wasn't talking about any subject in particular, but his statement could apply to many.

"I don't know what's the matter with people: they don't learn by understanding, they learn by some other way — by rote or something. Their knowledge is so fragile!"

[Deadboxhero]

You didn't answer my questions

Not fair! Some of your questions were not covered in the Tik Tok video!

DBH, you might find this interesting. It was said buy a guy who was certainly a bit smarter than me. He wasn't talking about any subject in particular, but his statement could apply to many.

"I don't know what's the matter with people: they don't learn by understanding, they learn by some other way — by rote or something. Their knowledge is so fragile!"

Funny, but it ain't a competition, however on a forum there is some obligation for those with some form of understanding to help others understand.

Sometimes it comes off as rude to question things or to say something is blatantly incorrect. I feel strongly that truth is very important.

Keep in mind though, I am dispassionate about this; I just want to share and discuss information. Perhaps one day more in-depth discussions can be had but it becomes difficult without ruffling feathers at times.

[Bolster]

Have you folks played around with the new AI chatbot, Chat GPT? Here are some of its answers:

Bolster: How much vanadium in railroad rails?

Railroad rails typically contain a small amount of vanadium, usually in the range of 0.05% to 0.10% by weight. The exact amount of vanadium in a given rail can vary depending on the manufacturer and the specific composition of the steel used. Vanadium is added to steel to improve its strength, toughness, and resistance to fatigue and wear, making it a valuable alloying element for use in heavy-duty applications such as railroad rails.

JSumm: When can we get a Manix and Caly 3.5 both with some blue G10 in SPY27?

The availability of Manix and Caly 3.5 models with blue G10 handle scales made from SPY27 steel will depend on the manufacturing schedule and inventory of the company that produces them. I recommend checking with the manufacturer directly or visiting their website or authorized dealers for current availability and ordering information.

BBB: Well, explain it to me? How does it work? (expanded into:) Explain the changes in properties of steel between the cold rolled state, being hardened with heat, and then tempered with heat?

Steel undergoes various changes in its properties as it goes from a cold-rolled state to being hardened with heat and then tempered with heat. Here's a brief explanation of these changes:
Cold-rolled state: In the cold-rolled state, steel is subjected to a process where it is deformed and compressed at room temperature. This results in an increase in its strength and hardness, but also makes the material more brittle and susceptible to cracking.
Hardening with heat: When steel is heated to high temperatures and then rapidly cooled (quenched), its internal structure changes and its hardness, strength, and wear resistance are increased. This process is known as hardening.
Tempering with heat: After hardening, the steel may become too brittle and prone to cracking. To mitigate this, the steel is subjected to a process known as tempering, where it is heated to a lower temperature and then cooled at a controlled rate. This helps to relieve the internal stress and reduce brittleness, while still maintaining its strength and hardness.
The exact changes in the properties of steel will depend on the specific type of steel, the hardening and tempering processes used, and the final temperature reached. In general, however, the changes are aimed at balancing the strength, hardness, and toughness of the material for optimal performance in a given application.

WyoJon: What are the long-term use characteristics of SPY27?

SPY27 is a high-quality knife steel known for its high corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. Some long-term use characteristics of SPY27 include:
Corrosion Resistance: SPY27 is highly resistant to rust and other forms of corrosion, which helps to maintain the longevity and quality of the knife over time.
Toughness: SPY27 is a tough steel, which means it is less prone to chipping or breaking during heavy use.
Edge Retention: SPY27 is known for holding a sharp edge for an extended period of time, making it ideal for heavy-duty tasks.
Easy to Sharpen: Despite its high edge retention, SPY27 is relatively easy to sharpen, allowing for easy maintenance over time.
Overall, SPY27 is a high-quality steel that is well-suited for long-term use in a variety of applications.

Bolster: Is the Spyderco Manix really the greatest folding knife of all time?

This is subjective and depends on individual preferences. Some may consider the Spyderco Manix to be the greatest folding knife due to its design, durability, and cutting performance, while others may have a different opinion. It is recommended to try it out yourself to determine if it meets your needs and preferences. What a stupid question. Of course it is.

There--we really don't need to discuss on the forum anymore. Please submit all future questions directly to Chat GPT.

[wrdwrght]

Have you folks played around with the new AI chatbot, Chat GPT? Here are some of its answers:

Bolster: How much vanadium in railroad rails?

Railroad rails typically contain a small amount of vanadium, usually in the range of 0.05% to 0.10% by weight. The exact amount of vanadium in a given rail can vary depending on the manufacturer and the specific composition of the steel used. Vanadium is added to steel to improve its strength, toughness, and resistance to fatigue and wear, making it a valuable alloying element for use in heavy-duty applications such as railroad rails.

JSumm: When can we get a Manix and Caly 3.5 both with some blue G10 in SPY27?

The availability of Manix and Caly 3.5 models with blue G10 handle scales made from SPY27 steel will depend on the manufacturing schedule and inventory of the company that produces them. I recommend checking with the manufacturer directly or visiting their website or authorized dealers for current availability and ordering information.

BBB: Well, explain it to me? How does it work? (expanded into:) Explain the changes in properties of steel between the cold rolled state, being hardened with heat, and then tempered with heat?

Steel undergoes various changes in its properties as it goes from a cold-rolled state to being hardened with heat and then tempered with heat. Here's a brief explanation of these changes:
Cold-rolled state: In the cold-rolled state, steel is subjected to a process where it is deformed and compressed at room temperature. This results in an increase in its strength and hardness, but also makes the material more brittle and susceptible to cracking.
Hardening with heat: When steel is heated to high temperatures and then rapidly cooled (quenched), its internal structure changes and its hardness, strength, and wear resistance are increased. This process is known as hardening.
Tempering with heat: After hardening, the steel may become too brittle and prone to cracking. To mitigate this, the steel is subjected to a process known as tempering, where it is heated to a lower temperature and then cooled at a controlled rate. This helps to relieve the internal stress and reduce brittleness, while still maintaining its strength and hardness.
The exact changes in the properties of steel will depend on the specific type of steel, the hardening and tempering processes used, and the final temperature reached. In general, however, the changes are aimed at balancing the strength, hardness, and toughness of the material for optimal performance in a given application.

Bolster: Is the Spyderco Manix really the greatest folding knife of all time?

This is subjective and depends on individual preferences. Some may consider the Spyderco Manix to be the greatest folding knife due to its design, durability, and cutting performance, while others may have a different opinion. It is recommended to try it out yourself to determine if it meets your needs and preferences. What a stupid question. Of course it is.

There--we really don't need to discuss on the forum anymore. Please submit all future questions directly to Chat GPT.

Holy ****! I had not seen examples of this particular phenomenon in such a meaningful context even though my ears have been perked since the arrival of the self-driving cars and deep fakes (pertinently, https://youtu.be/XuKUkyPegBE) that got me wondering. What could possibly go wrong with AI when human agency gets sidelined? We are so screwed.

[JSumm]

JSumm: When can we get a Manix and Caly 3.5 both with some blue G10 in SPY27?
The availability of Manix and Caly 3.5 models with blue G10 handle scales made from SPY27 steel will depend on the manufacturing schedule and inventory of the company that produces them. I recommend checking with the manufacturer directly or visiting their website or authorized dealers for current availability and ordering information.

Tomorrow I begin calling all authorized dealers and placing my requests.

[wrdwrght]

.

[WyoJon]

What steel do they use?

From the casual googling I've done, it seems to be 1084 which isn't high vanadium?

https://www.fedsteel.com/insights/steel ... ay-tracks/

This mentions use of higher alloy steel rail in specialty use

The problem your going to have is that the global corporation that owns the track work foundries in america and much of the world is tight lipped about their process. Those who know are not allowed to talk about it.

It is well known rail track of modern production is high in vanadium

Nope

https://www.evraz.com/en/products/r-and ... ing/rails/

[Larrin]

I had an initial article that predicte performance of SPY27. I then had a follow up with heat treating, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Then a third article had tested edge retention reported. The toughness was slightly worse than I predicted it would be and the edge retention was slightly better. But that is talking about small deviations not like the steel was in an entirely different category than I said it would be. There were educated predictions and then tests. I do see people occasionally say that my tests must be way off the manufacturers because I don’t use their exact heat treatments. In some cases manufacturers might screw up heat treating, sharpening, etc. In those cases my tests will show the steel being better than it is in a final knife. Otherwise if the hardness is similar in my test of coupons the performance of the steel in a completed knife would be very similar.

When it comes to reporting tests of Spyderco knives, yes those are anecdotes. Sometimes anecdotes are useful and sometimes they aren’t. Also a test of a commercial knife is a test of a knife not a steel. I see many comparisons between different brands, edge geometries, etc. referred to as “steel tests” which are not actually comparing differences in steel. Other variables are washing out any useful steel information. If you want to compare steel and heat treatments you have to work harder than that. If the only thing you need to know is “Spyderco knife X in CPM-SPY27 is good” then that is a separate question. It heat treats and works similarly enough to S30V that if you like other Spyderco knives you will probably like one in SPY27, since they should be able to handle the steel just fine.

The rail steel stuff is irrelevant; those are “micro-alloyed” unlike the knife steels we are discussing here with many times higher vanadium additions.

[Deadboxhero]

From the casual googling I've done, it seems to be 1084 which isn't high vanadium?

https://www.fedsteel.com/insights/steel ... ay-tracks/

This mentions use of higher alloy steel rail in specialty use

The problem your going to have is that the global corporation that owns the track work foundries in america and much of the world is tight lipped about their process. Those who know are not allowed to talk about it.

It is well known rail track of modern production is high in vanadium

Nope

https://www.evraz.com/en/products/r-and ... ing/rails/

Nope not 'high in vanadium" like you said.

Also says "pearlitic" which should be a clue.

[Bolster]

Congrats, WyoJon! You got some of the most knowledgeable people in this business, in the world, to address your questions! No obligation, no tuition fees! That's a sweet deal.

[vandelay]

I had an initial article that predicte performance of SPY27. I then had a follow up with heat treating, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Then a third article had tested edge retention reported. The toughness was slightly worse than I predicted it would be and the edge retention was slightly better. But that is talking about small deviations not like the steel was in an entirely different category than I said it would be. There were educated predictions and then tests. I do see people occasionally say that my tests must be way off the manufacturers because I don’t use their exact heat treatments. In some cases manufacturers might screw up heat treating, sharpening, etc. In those cases my tests will show the steel being better than it is in a final knife. Otherwise if the hardness is similar in my test of coupons the performance of the steel in a completed knife would be very similar.

When it comes to reporting tests of Spyderco knives, yes those are anecdotes. Sometimes anecdotes are useful and sometimes they aren’t. Also a test of a commercial knife is a test of a knife not a steel. I see many comparisons between different brands, edge geometries, etc. referred to as “steel tests” which are not actually comparing differences in steel. Other variables are washing out any useful steel information. If you want to compare steel and heat treatments you have to work harder than that. If the only thing you need to know is “Spyderco knife X in CPM-SPY27 is good” then that is a separate question. It heat treats and works similarly enough to S30V that if you like other Spyderco knives you will probably like one in SPY27, since they should be able to handle the steel just fine.

The rail steel stuff is irrelevant; those are “micro-alloyed” unlike the knife steels we are discussing here with many times higher vanadium additions.

In the case where heat treatment was screwed up such that the hardness was appropriate but toughness was drastically reduced, I wonder how that would be seen in real-world edge stability. CATRA testing would probably show no difference, but would you see edge damage if you were trying to cut through hardwood?

outdoors55 on youtube made a video where he intentionally heat treated 1084 badly and didn't find too much of a difference outside of abusive tasks. Perhaps this is just a demonstration of how excessively thick knife geometry makes the steel toughness less important though. I wonder how a particularly bad heat treatment would differ on a tool steel or stainless instead of 1084 as well. https://youtu.be/v8xK69vWITk

[sal]

Hi Larrin,

We say "Those who know, carry Spyderco".

So now I say; "Those who know, appreciate Larrin and his efforts".

sal

[Matus]

Amen to that.

[WyoJon]

Well Assassins Inc is scheduled to deliver my new cpm spy27 blade this morning. So I shall be able to see for myself how this steel is to profile, sharpen, and use.

[WyoJon]

I find it interesting some people are so quick to dismiss the experiences of experienced knife users in regards to determining the feasability of a knife steel application, yet 20 million spyderco owners get excited about different blade steels, have prefferences on what works best for them, and choose one model over another based upon steel offerings. Clearly that shows the end user call tell a lot from the quality of steel put into a blade.

As far as consistancy of heat treat making or breaking a blade steel, we have all seen cheap knives from asia, gerber, kershaw, etc, that have a steel and have executed it so horrendously that it is of inferior quality or even hard to use due to not taking or holding an edge well.

I think at the end of the day, the reason we come to spyderco is because we know the blade steels will perform excellent, and they will be of the highest quality for the steel they are made from. That is what brought me back after years of a side track into benchmade and zero tollerence.

[WyoJon]

Now I’m interested. I must have missed the memo.

Sal talked a little about it on here. There is also a good write up in the paperwork that comes with the SPY27 models. I can't get to it now, but I'll try to scan it later to upload here.

Thanks, Jeff.

Here you go!


Photo may be easier to read.

Thats a good write up, I like that. As a lover of vg 10 properties, this steel should work quite well for me.

[wrdwrght]

Sal talked a little about it on here. There is also a good write up in the paperwork that comes with the SPY27 models. I can't get to it now, but I'll try to scan it later to upload here.

Thanks, Jeff.

Here you go!


Photo may be easier to read.

Thats a good write up, I like that. As a lover of vg 10 properties, this steel should work quite well for me.

I, too, love VG10, but with some rumored reduction in fracture-resistance, SPY27 will not be VG10. I suspect that that Sal regards it as close enough, and maybe something more in its own right that will find a following.

I remain interested.