the waved karambit we really need...

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

the waved karambit we really need...

#1

Post by ladybug93 »

i'd love to see spyderco make a waved version of the ladybug hawkbill salt with a new frn mold that includes a place for a wire pocket clip and has a finger ring... for such a small knife, i bet frn would be completely sufficient material for the ring. the whole package would still be about the size of a lil native closed, but it would be lighter, thinner, and could be clipped just about anywhere, including against the skin, without worry of corrosion or accidental opening.

the ring would give the knife a place for the fourth finger and provide a more secure grip in any use, as well as making it easier to deploy quickly. it would also make it incredibly effective as a small sd option for ladies to keep in their unnecessarily shallow pockets. i know i'd buy at least one for my wife and each of my daughters.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
User avatar
Mushroom
Member
Posts: 7297
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:45 pm
Location: Boston, Ma. U.S.A. Earth

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#2

Post by Mushroom »

Thats an interesting idea but I have a handful of questions.

- Is the Ladybug an ideal design to be used in a self defense role like that?
- Can the lock bar handle the force applied in a real self defense role?
- What advantages does a waved karambit in that size provide?
- Would you be better served with one of Spydercos full size Karambit’s?
- At what point is it not a Ladybug anymore? We don’t know if the current ladybug handle can support the addition of a pocket clip and it may require significant changes for that alone. Adding a finger ring would guarantee significant handle changes.
- How big is the finger ring going to be? For it to be functional for an adult, the size would be comical in relation to the rest of the knife and the waved function might even get impeded by the size of the ring.

I tend to think a waved Dragonfly Hawkbill might be more realistic. That with an aftermarket finger ring like the 5x5CombatSolutions Talisman ExoTool might be a solution.
-Nick :bug-red
Image
User avatar
PeaceInOurTime
Member
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:37 am

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#3

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

YES!!
If the Emerson Dragonfly exists, why can't this?
A waved funsize salt karambit with a pocket clip would often find it's way into my pocket.
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#4

Post by ladybug93 »

i thought about most of this a bit before posting, so here are some thoughts...

Mushroom wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:18 pm
Thats an interesting idea but I have a handful of questions.

- Is the Ladybug an ideal design to be used in a self defense role like that?
definitely not ideal, but sometimes ideal is what you'll actually carry. the lcp isn't the ideal firearm for self defense, but lots of people carry it because it's compact and good enough for what they might actually need. the ladybug hawkbill may be just enough to make an attacker change his mind about assaulting someone, especially if you get him in a sensitive area like the wrist or neck. you don't need much blade to cause significant damage.
- Can the lock bar handle the force applied in a real self defense role?
that's a good question. i can't answer it, so someone from spyderco would have to. honestly, i'm not sure how much it matters... it doesn't have to be advertised as a self-defense knife, and if i was in a real self-defense situation, i wouldn't be worried about my knife closing on me as much as i would be worried about stopping the attack.
- What advantages does a waved karambit in that size provide?
the advantage would be compactness. specifically, it would be small enough to clip in small pockets, iwb in tighter pants, or even to a bra strap or something. i don't know... it would be about the smallest you could make a karambit and still have it be useful. it would be significantly smaller than the karahawk.
- Would you be better served with one of Spydercos full size Karambit’s?
the karahawk would be quite a bit bigger, bulkier, and heavier than what i'm talking about, but the blade on the karahawk is only about a half inch longer than the ladybug hawkbill.
- At what point is it not a Ladybug anymore? We don’t know if the current ladybug handle can support the addition of a pocket clip and it may require significant changes for that alone. Adding a finger ring would guarantee significant handle changes.
there would surely have to be a new mold for what i'm talking about. i don't see how it would be any less stable than a df2 handle though and i'm talking about using the same type of clip. i suppose it probably would cease to be a ladybug at that point, but maybe it could be given the name "ladyhawk" like some of us already call the ladybug hawkbill.
- How big is the finger ring going to be? For it to be functional for an adult, the size would be comical in relation to the rest of the knife and the waved function might even get impeded by the size of the ring.
the finger ring wouldn't have to be too big. this knife would be meant for smaller hands and the size of it would probably lend itself better to only being on the second portion of your index finger instead of having your whole finger in the ring. i was holding my wedding band up to the ladybug and tried it as a mock-up. it's only a size 11 ring and i think it would be plenty big for this kind of application, but you could even go a little bigger and not have it look too silly.

I tend to think a waved Dragonfly Hawkbill might be more realistic. That with an aftermarket finger ring like the 5x5CombatSolutions Talisman ExoTool might be a solution.
i definitely considered the df2 when thinking of this idea. the thing about the df2 is that it barely has more blade length compared the ladybug, but adds much more grip. the ladybug has a three-finger grip, so adding a ring for the fourth finger doesn't waste extra space on the grip like it would on the df2. also, the design i'm talking about would only be a little bigger closed than the df2 already is without the ring, so it would still be much more compact in a pocket or wherever else someone wants to carry it.
as far as the aftermarket solutions... i started this out with the thought that someone could make an aftermarket handle replacement for the ladybug (it would have to be a full scale replacement since there's no backspacer room in the ladybug like there is in a delica, for example) and something like the 5x5 pickpocket to make a complete package. the problem with that was it would make the whole package bigger and heavier than it probably needs to be if spyderco were able to make it with an integral ring frn handle and a waved blade.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
User avatar
vandelay
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#5

Post by vandelay »

Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with a dragonfly? It has almost the same edge length as a ladybug but it's big enough that you can get a proper grip on it. Plus, if you're going to use a pocket clip, the small size increase of the dragonfly isn't that much of a concern. It's also about the right length for a finger ring to fit on the end of you really wanted that.
User avatar
phaust
Member
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#6

Post by phaust »

Sounds a bit like the Fox Mini Ka

Image
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#7

Post by ladybug93 »

vandelay wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:15 pm
Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with a dragonfly? It has almost the same edge length as a ladybug but it's big enough that you can get a proper grip on it. Plus, if you're going to use a pocket clip, the small size increase of the dragonfly isn't that much of a concern. It's also about the right length for a finger ring to fit on the end of you really wanted that.
i don't know if you saw it, but i answered this in my response to mushroom above.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#8

Post by ladybug93 »

phaust wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:18 pm
Sounds a bit like the Fox Mini Ka

Image
i'll have to check these out since i doubt we'll see a ladybug karambit, but it looks too small. the design i'm talking about would provide a full grip for anyone that doesn't have xl hands.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
User avatar
vandelay
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#9

Post by vandelay »

ladybug93 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:20 pm
vandelay wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:15 pm
Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with a dragonfly? It has almost the same edge length as a ladybug but it's big enough that you can get a proper grip on it. Plus, if you're going to use a pocket clip, the small size increase of the dragonfly isn't that much of a concern. It's also about the right length for a finger ring to fit on the end of you really wanted that.
i don't know if you saw it, but i answered this in my response to mushroom above.
yeah, I missed that.

I think it'd make more sense to put a ring where your pinkie sits on a dragonfly handle than trying to enlarge a ladybug to get a 4 finger grip. You could cut a hole where the pinkie sits on the dragonfly handle and add a ring there. It probably wouldn't increase the closed size of the knife much.
I have a lanyard on my ladybug to give it a 4 finger grip (but also mostly to hold it on my keyring) and it's about 15mm longer when closed than the dragonfly when you include that lanyard. The choil improves compactness.
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#10

Post by ladybug93 »

vandelay wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:22 pm
ladybug93 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:20 pm
vandelay wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:15 pm
Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with a dragonfly? It has almost the same edge length as a ladybug but it's big enough that you can get a proper grip on it. Plus, if you're going to use a pocket clip, the small size increase of the dragonfly isn't that much of a concern. It's also about the right length for a finger ring to fit on the end of you really wanted that.
i don't know if you saw it, but i answered this in my response to mushroom above.
yeah, I missed that.

I think it'd make more sense to put a ring where your pinkie sits on a dragonfly handle than trying to enlarge a ladybug to get a 4 finger grip. You could cut a hole where the pinkie sits on the dragonfly handle and add a ring there. It probably wouldn't increase the closed size of the knife much.
I have a lanyard on my ladybug to give it a 4 finger grip (but also mostly to hold it on my keyring) and it's about 15mm longer when closed than the dragonfly when you include that lanyard. The choil improves compactness.
if you put the ring where your pinky rests on the df2, the blade would pass through the hole and you wouldn't be able to use it to deploy the knife.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
User avatar
vandelay
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#11

Post by vandelay »

oh that makes sense. I didn't think about pulling it out of your pocket with the ring.

I feel like I'd probably slice my beer gut open trying to actually deploy something like that, but I guess I'm not the target market.
User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 7326
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#12

Post by ZrowsN1s »

I have a Karahawk. It IS a Hawkbill Dragonfly Karambit. Blade length is nearly identical.

Its the ring and the need for reinforcement that make it sort of impractical for a Ladyhawk.

MAYBE if they Really worked at, they could make mini Karahawk. Shrink all the dimensions down a bit. Less wide/tall blade, shorter handle, less wide/tall handle, slightly smaller ring. But I don't think thats what youre after.

Remember the Karahawk was designed to be as small as practical already.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
yablanowitz
Member
Posts: 6881
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
Location: Liberal, Kansas

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#13

Post by yablanowitz »

Being one of those people with size XL hands, the whole idea sounds pretty silly to me, but carry on.
User avatar
PeaceInOurTime
Member
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:37 am

Re: the waved karambit we really need...

#14

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

I certainly couldn't speak to it's martial capabilities, not really my interest, but I love the idea of a tiny salt karambit for everyday tasks. For reference, I wear L-XL gloves.

I'm always impressed with my M4 Dodo when I carry it -- would love a salt version. It's cutting edge length is comparable to a LB HB, but has much more handle to grip.
Post Reply