Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
James Y
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#81

Post by James Y »

Changing an established model from one lock type to another isn't necessarily as simple as some people believe it should be. It would probably be easier to just create an all-new design with such-and-such a lock.

I'm not anti-comp lock. The PM 2 is one of my favorite and most-carried designs. As is the Caribbean. But to say that back locks are obsolete because there are new locks is wrong. Preferences are preferences. In the same manner, I can't demand that studios should only make the types of movies I like.

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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#82

Post by nerdlock »

cabfrank wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:06 pm
This is making me wonder what happenend to Wartstein.

Now that you mention it...hoping he's ok out there.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#83

Post by Evil D »

RamZar wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:52 pm
Also, there’s no hurry to do this fast. You don’t win a gunfight by holstering fast afterwards.


This really depends on your uses. I may not be trying to put them away as fast as I might pull them out in an emergency, but in general this is why my work knives will always be folders vs fixed blades, because I just can't put a fixed blade into a sheath as blindly as I can fold a knife and clip it into my pocket or even just stuff it loose into my pocket if I'm in that much of a rush. Some jobs do require quick and fluid draw/open/cut/close/clip movements so doing it in a hurry should at least be something you can do safely and reliably.

To be fair I don't think Spyderco makes a lock that CAN'T be handled this way but I would say some are faster and safer and more fluid than others.
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vandelay
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#84

Post by vandelay »

Dazen wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:21 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:00 pm

I don’t understand why folks need the validation of convincing others that they are right. This is what leads to crazy group think and a lack of variety. The “liner locks suck” crowd is almost as bad as the “tip down only” crowd. To each their own. Variety is the spice of life.

I’m afraid this is exactly what this forum is regarding the Back Locks since I’ve been a member. I can’t say how times I’ve seen members mention “it would be nice to see this model with a Comp Lock” and immediately get shot down. There are also members requesting certain sprints of Comp Lock/CBBL knives that get turned into a Back Lock threads instead. Yes, a variety is the spice of life as long as it’s a Back Lock.
The love for back locks here surprised me when I first started reading threads. They're good locks and they excel in some roles, but they feel a bit awkward to unlock and I have trouble getting excited for another spyderco back lock when there are so many out there. A new CBBL or a high end non-flipper linerlock from spyderco would be more exciting with how few SKUs there are.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#85

Post by vivi »

vandelay wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:40 pm
Dazen wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:21 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:00 pm

I don’t understand why folks need the validation of convincing others that they are right. This is what leads to crazy group think and a lack of variety. The “liner locks suck” crowd is almost as bad as the “tip down only” crowd. To each their own. Variety is the spice of life.

I’m afraid this is exactly what this forum is regarding the Back Locks since I’ve been a member. I can’t say how times I’ve seen members mention “it would be nice to see this model with a Comp Lock” and immediately get shot down. There are also members requesting certain sprints of Comp Lock/CBBL knives that get turned into a Back Lock threads instead. Yes, a variety is the spice of life as long as it’s a Back Lock.
The love for back locks here surprised me when I first started reading threads. They're good locks and they excel in some roles, but they feel a bit awkward to unlock and I have trouble getting excited for another spyderco back lock when there are so many out there. A new CBBL or a high end non-flipper linerlock from spyderco would be more exciting with how few SKUs there are.
I made this video to focus on how I drew the knife, but at the end you can see how I close lockbacks.


https://streamlala.com/bmjnT/

ymmv but I find it as fast and fluid as any other lock type.

I can also pinch the scales with my thumb and middle finger and press the lock release with my index finger and swing it shut like a comp lock. Keeps my hands out of the way of the cutting edge.

The way most folks close them is slow and clumsy to me (dropping the blade down on my index finger). But these two methods feel fast and intuitive for me after some practice.

that said I want more cbbl knives too!
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#86

Post by Cl1ff »

I would like to continue to see Spyderco develop and improve their current locks, backlocks, Comp locks, CBBLs, all of them.
And bring new locks to the market as well.
I like them all and find each’s pros and cons lend themselves to the variety of ways and places I use cutting tools and how I like to use them.

I prefer backlocks when I’m moving my body around a lot (often climbing trees) and I enjoy the ergos of Spyderco’s backlock designs, like the awesome Rockjumper I just got which is my favorite knife design right now.

I also like the Compression lock of the Caribbean I just got for the very fluid operation and open construction. I can tell it will be excellent while I’m out on the saltwater and trying to keep mostly steady.

Its the respectively more deliberate and more free manipulation of those knives and locks that allow them to fill different functional niches.

I’m anticipating that the fixed blades I’ve just recently acquired, the Aqua Salt and incoming Swick 6, will effectively bridge the gap, at least with the way I use my knives.

The CBBL is also a sort of middle ground that I think will be a favorite of mine as a generalized tool able to be pushed into these various roles if need be when/if I can get that BBB 15V.

I can elaborate on these things if anyone is curious!
Last edited by Cl1ff on Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#87

Post by JRinFL »

James Y wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:55 pm
Changing an established model from one lock type to another isn't necessarily as simple as some people believe it should be. It would probably be easier to just create an all-new design with such-and-such a lock.

Jim
Correct, however some still act like all Sal and Eric need to do is snap their fingers. Pretty sure Sal is fan of the back lock (mid lock actually) so that may be a reason why we see so many designs utilizing it.

There were lots of designs that utilized the comp lock, but I guess the comp lock lovers overlooked them and bought the Nth iteration of the PM2 or P3 instead. Most are discontinued now.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#88

Post by vandelay »

vivi wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:53 pm
https://streamlala.com/bmjnT/
That's pretty much how I do it as well. I just don't like the act of reaching my index finger up and the thumb back. It's not the most comfortable thing and moving my fingers past the blade requires some additional caution (I did cut myself once being careless... after a few beers).
It's a fairly minor complaint overall but when I'm considering buying a knife that costs over $200, minor complaints become pretty relevant.

I'll also add that the ayoob's negative angle makes it the most comfortable back lock I've used.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#89

Post by vivi »

vandelay wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:12 pm
vivi wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:53 pm
https://streamlala.com/bmjnT/
That's pretty much how I do it as well. I just don't like the act of reaching my index finger up and the thumb back. It's not the most comfortable thing and moving my fingers past the blade requires some additional caution (I did cut myself once being careless... after a few beers).
It's a fairly minor complaint overall but when I'm considering buying a knife that costs over $200, minor complaints become pretty relevant.

I'll also add that the ayoob's negative angle makes it the most comfortable back lock I've used.
I hear ya. Even though I'm used to closing them that way, swinging a comp lock or cbbl shut is easier.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#90

Post by StuntZombie »

I don't really care. I just don't think we should consider blades dropping shut as a sign of quality.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#91

Post by capt.carl »

The back lock on the native chief and the liner lock on the military are things of beauty. Spyderco does these locks the best of any company. I love all of their locks, all are executed so well and im glad we have a variety to pick from. Can’t think of any ither company like that
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#92

Post by Naperville »

I prefer back-locks and frame locks. I don't even buy liner-lock knives.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#93

Post by ladybug93 »

Naperville wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:32 pm
I prefer back-locks and frame locks. I don't even buy liner-lock knives.
a lot of liner locks are almost as thick as frame locks, at least when it comes to spyderco liner locks. as much as you like big knives, i would think you'd really enjoy the resilience. it's a good liner lock with a fairly thick liner.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#94

Post by cycleguy »

Back lock is all I buy anymore!

Never did take to the CBBL.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#95

Post by z1r »

My Sub Hilt, Patadese and Sage would disagree. All wonderful linerlocks!
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#96

Post by TkoK83Spy »

StuntZombie wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:35 pm
I don't really care. I just don't think we should consider blades dropping shut as a sign of quality.
Blows my mind how many people get a new knife and the first comment they have is how happy they are that it drops shut, or complain that it doesn't. I've never understood why that matters so much. I blame YouTube and all those morons on there that people seem to idolize. Some new guy created a thread talking about that today and I don't think my eyes can roll any further to the back of my head.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#97

Post by vandelay »

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:28 pm
StuntZombie wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:35 pm
I don't really care. I just don't think we should consider blades dropping shut as a sign of quality.
Blows my mind how many people get a new knife and the first comment they have is how happy they are that it drops shut, or complain that it doesn't. I've never understood why that matters so much. I blame YouTube and all those morons on there that people seem to idolize. Some new guy created a thread talking about that today and I don't think my eyes can roll any further to the back of my head.
I wonder how many people got an unpleasant surprise when they first realised their knife drops shut. :bandage
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#98

Post by Matus »

My preferred lock is the one that works well and is designed in a manner consistent with its use.

For example ...

I never liked liner/frame locks that are drop shut - like - what is the point, to make sure you will cut yourself?

Liner lock on my Schempp bowie is near perfection - for me.

The back lock on my new Ayoob ist **** perfect. Compression lock on my k390 PM2 is OK, but the detent is too weak - closing the knife by letting the blade to drop with a gentle flick of a wrist make the blade overcome the detent lock nearly every time unless I get the timing and force just right.

The liner lock on the Gayle Bradley 1 was fantastic, so was the frame lock on the new Tuff sprint.

Back lock on my H1 Pacific Salt 2 ist not great - too much give under pressure when cutting (I guess because the handle is all FRN only).

The drop-shut back lock on SpyOpera cut me upon second or 3rd closing. Lovely knife, but the ball bearings were just the wrong choice IMO for the combination with a back lock.

The compression locks on the Caribbean and mint Sage 5 were awesome - way better than my PM2 (though the PM2 has seen a lot more use so this may not be a fair comparison)

Frame lock on the small Sebenza 21 I used to have - perfection.

Back lock on the LW Chaparral - smooth but not super nice to operate one handed - the blade is way too lightweight. I would much prefer liner lock or compression lock.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#99

Post by z1r »

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:28 pm
StuntZombie wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:35 pm
I don't really care. I just don't think we should consider blades dropping shut as a sign of quality.
Blows my mind how many people get a new knife and the first comment they have is how happy they are that it drops shut, or complain that it doesn't. I've never understood why that matters so much. I blame YouTube and all those morons on there that people seem to idolize. Some new guy created a thread talking about that today and I don't think my eyes can roll any further to the back of my head.
So true. When I first got my LW Para 3 in Rex 45 I was displeased because it wasn't drop shutty or openy, lol. Then I reflected upon the fact that, for me, one of my all time favorites, the N5 certainly isn't and yet I have no complaints about it. Once I accepted the fact that as long as it rolls open with the thumbhole and cuts, I'm good, I've been happy with it.
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Re: Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

#100

Post by The Mastiff »

Lets face it, the title of this thread is meant as a troll. I generally don't engage trolls as that is the purpose of trolling. To provoke a response. That being said when Spyderco stops making backlocks I'll likely stop buying. I don't see it happening though. I do enjoy other types of locks but as I get older and more set in my ways I carry one Endura ( now Ayoob in Cruwear ) almost daily and use others for tasks or testing of steels, etc. I know what works for me.
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