Blade:Closed Size Ratios

[Tristan_david2001]

Blade to handle ratios is inherently an important aspect of designing folding knives, and I definitely am in that camp with evilD that generally you should try fit in as much blade length into the handle it folds into as possible, that really only makes sense. But there’s a lot of other things you have to consider that will have an effect on that ratio, and that’s determined by what specific types of cutting chores is the knife designed to excel at the most. You can look at two knives have the same length, but there features such as; finger choils, lock types, curvature and angle relationship of the blade and handle, and handle type (like in the case of the military, it has that extra palm swell that sits below your pinky in grip, creates higher ratio, but serves a functional purpose). Etc. so the way bth ratio is prioritized is very relative to the rest of the design. but it always is at some level, important and a priority in the design.. I believe that’s an important part of the discussion that isn’t being talked about.

[Bolster]

Wow, I lit the fuse on this one, didn’t I? Didn’t mean to start the civil war. I guess my intro of “Hey, to each his own...maybe this thread isn't of interest to you…” was of no avail. Really, I meant no insult to the big-handle folks, being one myself on occasion.

But, I’m in the stew now, so:

1) Even “ratio” people like me understand the need for large handles and small blades when the situation calls for it—we’re not stupid. When you are doing a lot of cutting and you need good tip control, then big handle, short blade is the ticket. I have loads of specialty woodworking and craft knives and ute knives that are just like that. (I even own several Yojimbos!) I’m a heavy Ute knife user. What’s the ratio on a Ute? 1/2” blade to 6” handle? Love it…when that’s the tool that’s needed.

2) “I don’t care about…” Well, that’s fine! This isn’t your topic then. There are lots of other threads about amount, size, and feel of jimping, hole and screw location in clips, radiused vs unradiused FRCP, which are the best grip textures on FRN, ideal choil depth and location, and so on, where you can “geek different.” Going to the next thread will save you $$ on Tums and ganja.

3) “Less comfortable to hold.” Seriously? Caly, Stretch, Kapara, Pac Salt, Native Chief, all these size efficient knives, are “less comfortable”? Not buying it. I have “large” size hands according to the glove makers, and even the Chap feels plenty comfortable to me.

4a) Knife Carry Matters. If you are breaking down boxes with your Para for hours on end, then your big-caboose knife is entirely rational. But if your knife stays in your pocket for 99% of the time, then a pocket hog with a phat handle isn’t optimal for carry. Sal himself has underscored the importance of designing for pocket-friendlness, noting that most knives spend a lot more time in the pocket than in the hand.

4b) RustyIron’s comment that we should be attending to “height” is right on. I’ve not seen anybody tackle that yet, but if pocket-hoggery is a concern, then knife height should be factored in. I own lots of Manix and love them, but fun to carry in the pocket, they are not. Manix, I carry in a backpack or a toolbox.

5) Several have mentioned that handle-to-edge is the more important ratio. You’re probably right for most situations (though SD often weights blade length over edge length but that’s geekery for another thread). Let me see if I can find the handle-to-edge ratios, I’m sure I graphed that.

6) “You’re only concerned about looks.” Hey, next you’re going to accuse me of just lining my sock drawer with knife jewelry, aren’t you?

7) OK, that photo of the Jandela is pretty cool. It won’t make it on the right side of the regression line, but I want one anyway.

[JSumm]

LOL, hot dog analogy. All it takes is a great joke to bring us all together.
Well done D!

Now, Bring on more Caly, Chief, and Stretch XL iterations. I will not say why I like them. Just that it gives me a warm feeling inside when I hold them.

[Bolster]

Here's my SS of Closed:Edge ratios. Sadly the SS does not include all Spydercos, just some that (selfishly) interest me. Junior on one extreme and Barong on the other. Since I own two Juniors and no Barongs, my bias is probably obvious. (But I could open up a small knife store with my Manix knives, so go figure.)

[JSumm]

Nothing wrong with some preferences. I tend to prefer models to the right of the evil line. Would even say they are my favorites, but I will probably always have a Manix, PM2, and a Military.

[CasperFatone]

I love it, Bolster. If I’m reading this right, knives to the right of the plotted line are more efficient?

I’ve really got to get myself a Native Chief. And the Stretch 2 XL.

Correct. The slant line can be read as the average ratio; points to the right have higher "efficiency ratios." More blade to handle. If you want to spot the highly efficient ratios, look for those that are the farthest distance perpendicular to the right of the line.

As Sal once commented (paraphrased): a folding knife spends a lot more time in the pocket than in the hand. I've always appreciated trim and unobtrusive knives for that reason.

Looking at the chart, you can see one of the reasons the Caly line is so popular. Trim in the pocket but big in the blade.

Native Chief is pretty amazing for efficiency. Kapara was a nice surprise, I wish I owned one.

I would like to know: How close can the pivot be moved toward the front of the handle, before it's too far? At some point it would weaken the knife. But the closer the pivot to the front of the handle, the more blade you can pack into the handle. Can you make up for "area around the pivot" with a deeper/taller handle? For example, on a "tall" knife like the Manix, can the pivot be pushed forward...while on a knife like the Ikuchi, that's "short" (when lying on its spine) by necessity does the pivot have to move back for strength?

In regards to the question of pivot position, my take on it is that the main factor here is having space to capture the tang when folded. Because if this, the measurement is somewhat dependent on the lock style and size of the washers/bearings. Strength of the liners typically would not be an issue, but I could see this being an issue on a liner less knife design if the wrong handle material is used.

As far as handle to blade ratios are concerned, it’s an interesting topic but not something I worry about. I’m by no means an expert knifemaker/designer but have done a few folders that I’m proud of. My more traditional designs definitely have a more favorable ratio, and my more funky ones are way less favorable. If I want a whole lot of edge I tend to grab a fixed blade.

Also, definitely go get yourself a Kapara! It’s an outstanding knife if you like a lot of blade. It also happens to be my favorite knife to mod into a mini, which results in a 3” edge and 4” handle.

[JRinFL]

6) “You’re only concerned about looks.” Hey, next you’re going to accuse me of just lining my sock drawer with knife jewelry, aren’t you?

Hmm, are you saying you not keeping them in the sock drawer!? We may need to put you on double secret probation! For the greater good!

[JRinFL]

Spyderco had to create taller blades to accommodate the much requested larger opening hole. I never had issues opening Spyderco with "normal" sized opening holes, but the shouters all yelled the edge cases and now we have tall blades with gaping holes that waste a lot of expensive steel that will never be used as a cutting edge. Raises prices as well since so much more steel is used. Whaddagunnado?

[p_atrick]

Blade to handle ratio? I couldn’t care less.

I want one of these so bad but there are other knives on the list above it at the moment. Still, I will own one of these eventually.



Michael Janich custom Jandela! The ultimate knife to trigger those who care so much about blade to handle ratio! Muahahah!

https://5x5combatsolutions.com/shop/ols ... a-r-322533

I own a Janlica and I love it. It sparked an interest in having a full-sized, comfortable handle. I have since given away my Wharnie Dragon Fly 2. Overpriced or not, the Janlica is a fantastic knife. I'm looking forward to when they restock the Chicagojimbo.

[Bolster]

Big Handle Boys: We encourage your obsession with extreme largeness! Stand proud, and strut your ample handles! We will marvel at the size of your hardware in admiration and wonderment.