CPM 15v Manix 2

[weeping minora]

I like how the knife isn't out yet and knife center already has a two star review up. Classy.

Don't undersell the guy, he gave it 3 stars!! Not even one day after the reveal too. I'm thinking this is a troll to put-off any on-the-fencers so he can score one himself...

Hard to believe much of anyone has experience with 15V to be so quick to trash it (along with Maxamet) in use.

[CaptWiggum]

Everyone wants the hardest steel available, until they drop it from waist height and the blade brakes like this one. Also the max HRC is 64 which means the released blade will likely be 61-62, but still fragile. 15V has been around since the 90’s and there is a reason you do not see it in knife blades. Look at the Crucible data sheet. This will not replace Maxamet. But… He’ll yeah I’m buying one! :)

Maxamet blade broken after drop
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/comm ... _fracture/

[dullmaker]

Just saw this and my day is made. I’m really happy that Spyderco’s first foray into this highly anticipated steel is not going to be a Paramilitary, but on what in my opinion might just be the perfect knife. Plus BBB’s 15V heat treatment experience combined with a fantastic price, what’s not to like? All boxes are checked. I haven’t been this excited about an upcoming release in a while.
BTW
Does it mean anything as far as release date that various popular dealer’s already list it on their website, and not as a presale?
Bruce

[weeping minora]

Everyone wants the hardest steel available, until they drop it from waist height and the blade brakes like this one. Also the max HRC is 64 which means the released blade will likely be 61-62, but still fragile. 15V has been around since the 90’s and there is a reason you do not see it in knife blades. Look at the Crucible data sheet. This will not replace Maxamet. But… He’ll yeah I’m buying one! :)

Maxamet blade broken after drop
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/comm ... _fracture/

Different knives for different lives.

Not everyone is going to be batoning oak stumps or whittling glass with steel of this caliber, nor does everyone expect it to walk away unscathed after such "use". This is a pure cutter of softer abrasive materials in a folding knife application. The Crucible Data Sheet seems to indicate 64 HRC as the maximum hardness, however knives are not listed under their terms of "Typical Applications". Please know that integrating CPM 15V into a knife steel was not in their customer market in the 1990s and it surely hasn't made up the bulk of their sales even today.

There is data on the Knife Steel Nerds site listing 15V with hardness breaching 65+:

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/05/24/ ... n-you-add/

Shawn Houston (BBB) is renowned for pushing the heat-treat on these exotic steels, yet knows not everyone will understand that 15V is not tough enough to fell your nearest redwood; so we'll just have to wait and see where the HT has been dialed for this knife. He has reported that he was working on a HT (in conjunction with Larrin Thomas, of Knife Steel Nerds), that was in the 67+ HRC after tempering:

We'll, I've been working hard with more testing and I am very fortunate to have Larrin Thomas as a friend. He is also very obsessed with high performance.

Looks like there may be some extreme performance to be achieved with lower Austenizing and lower Tempers and cryos.

With hardnesses reaching +67 hrc tempered

Very excited to share more in knife form when the time comes.


Thanks for testing those Samples Larrin.

Be sure to support Larrin's work, at Knifesteelnerds.com it helps the community.

Shawn

*From Shawn Houston himself; "Sal, can we get CPM 15V?" thread.

FWIW; here is also another quote (*albeit edited) from his direct opening statements on that same thread regarding his initial opinion of the steel:

I like this steel. It's easier to work with then Maxamet and Rex121

Takes a killer edge and seems to be more stable then s110v.

Anyone can view that thread and follow the discussion here: viewtopic.php?t=82056


Also, the Maxamet blade in your link was reportedly smacked against concrete by the user after zipping through cardboard and was in fact not dropped from any height. The force used was undoubtedly excessive for any knife, being as the user stated his surprise at how effortless the cut was:

"Cutting down a thick cardboard box, went through easier than expected, blade smacked concrete, my dumbass fault, just figured maybe resharpen needed but obviously not after i found this"

*Quoted from the OP; reddit link as listed

[JRinFL]

I was all in on this one, but having thought about it for awhile, I'm good with staying with what I have now in S90V, S110V, Cruwear, and Rex45. I will watch these threads to see how BBB's heat treat plays out in a larger audience. Hopefully some owners will use them and not safe queen them.

[WilliamMunny]

Maybe it’s just me but I feel like there can be an mis match of knives and steel. I mean why put a brittle steel on a knife made hard use like a Manix? Would 15v be better for a PM3 or lil Native?

I would think you would want a tougher steel on larger hard use knives and harder steels on smaller knives.

I know everyone has their uses and likes but as a “generalization” this makes sense to me. Am I wrong? Is a Maxamet Military or Shaman just silly and begging to chip or break?

[TkoK83Spy]

I think you worry too much about chipping. Across multiple threads

[bearfacedkiller]

I hope they made enough. Being a difficult steel to work with has me nervous that it won’t be a giant run. Even though it is a Manix and not a Para2 I still think it is going to be chaos. I really want one.

[WilliamMunny]

I think you worry too much about chipping. Across multiple threads

Probably, had my S30V chip once or twice with regular use so now it is always something I worry about. I have also had some forum users show me their S110V chipped to **** from normal use. With all that it makes me a bit hesitant to try a high edge retention steel. I don’t mind sharpening once or twice a month with my S30V.

But I am always tempted with something like this. I really wanted to try 10v as it had some toughness, but a well heat treated 15v could be awesome.

[JSumm]

I think you worry too much about chipping. Across multiple threads

Probably, had my S30V chip once or twice with regular use so now it is always something I worry about. I have also had some forum users show me their S110V chipped to **** from normal use. With all that it makes me a bit hesitant to try a high edge retention steel. I don’t mind sharpening once or twice a month with my S30V.

But I am always tempted with something like this. I really wanted to try 10v as it had some toughness, but a well heat treated 15v could be awesome.

My first bout with K390 chipped a lot on some metal tape and old mastic I was cutting through. Hardened nasty stuff it was. Once I put my own edge on it and exposed that glorious steel, it is the best performing edge of any steels I've used. Takes hits and strikes like nothing else. I think there is a lot to what you may read or see. Sometimes we have to work through all the information to get to the truth. Just like any other science, some results without knowing all the variables can throw shade over the real truth.

[Eli Chaps]

Everyone wants the hardest steel available, until they drop it from waist height and the blade brakes like this one. Also the max HRC is 64 which means the released blade will likely be 61-62, but still fragile. 15V has been around since the 90’s and there is a reason you do not see it in knife blades. Look at the Crucible data sheet. This will not replace Maxamet. But… He’ll yeah I’m buying one! :)

Maxamet blade broken after drop
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/comm ... _fracture/

Yeah, if only Shawn knew what he was doing...

Of course it won't replace Maxamet. That's a regular production steel and this is a sprint run so just in terms of sheer volume that isn't possible no clearly intended.

I hammer my K390 and Shawn says if you like K390, you're gonna like this offering.

I'm curious, what do you think is the reason we don't see 15V in knife blades? Fragility?

[Deadboxhero]

Forgive me if I offend anybody here but I feel the need to speak candidly.

I find it draining sometimes reading comments from people who can't think for themselves and have no experience trying to put something they haven't tried into a category of worry and mediocrity.

If anyone is scared of 15v not being 3v then this isn't the knife for you, I recommend you hold off on this and let other people who have been waiting a long time for this get one.

It's exhausting when people try to act like extreme toughness doesn't come with its own set of problems and its great that Spyderco is accommodating a niche for folks that love edge aggression, understand how to sharpen and like when that time investment into the sharpening lasts with cutting and don't need training wheels and hand holding.

I think there's a lot of people who have been into knives for the past year or two. Most knives in the industry cater to casuals and new guys that are in the two-year cycle of obsession then move on. Not to mention we have folks that will never change, ever. So they will never experience anything different
or grow, so nothing matters to them.

It's a never ending cycle of m390 and titanium, an endless morphing of shapes, milling cuts ,colors and names for the same thing over and over.

This knife is for people who have been waiting for things that cater to people who've been around for two to five plus years and want more features that have been held back because it doesn't cater to casual knife folks.

"Sorry, we can't make that because people don't know how to sharpen so we have to water it down"
-Knife Industry

There is no shortage of casual knife products for that crowd.

This knife is the "redpill."


The folks that will get the most enjoyment out of 15v will be people that understand how to sharpen, how to strop, what a cutting knife edge can and can't do. What edge geometry is, What a carbide is, what diamond/cBN is and why and when they would use it.

There seems to be an army of people that say the high cutting edge retention steels are only for people who don't use their knives or for collectors.

That is incorrect and extremely close minded.

There are too many people that just repeat what they hear and put zero effort into seeing for themselves let alone sharpening their own knife.


I speak from first hand experience and from friends and customers when I say some folks find it extremely refreshing to get a knife with some decent carbide volume and good hardness so that they don't have to stop what they were doing and sharpen.

It is exhilarating to have an edge that keeps the bite and aggression and that doesn't wear smooth in cutting. An edge that grabs and slices ferociously.

Hunting season is here and there are countless people who bring a giant backpack filled with soft steel knives.

Its quite ridiculous but the reason behind it is
so they don't have to stop to sharpen.

There isn't always the time to sit and sharpen when you're in the middle of something, it's cold, you're tired and you're losing daylight.

Well, if you use a steel that actually holds an edge and doesn't wear smooth on animal hide its quite a blessing.

That means leave the bag of knives home.

If the edge is not wearing smooth you'll get cleaner cuts meaning less hair on the meat from tearing hide, you can cut with more precision with less force reducing the chance of accidentally tearing open the peritoneum and making a mess.

This isn't too disparage people that like steels with different properties than 15V. Like Spyderco says these are all different flavors of Steel.

15V is a very exotic and expensive flavor, but is a refreshing taste that we seldom ever get to experience.

-Shawn

[Eli Chaps]

Forgive me if I offend anybody here but I feel the need to speak candidly.

...

-Shawn

Preach Brother Shawn.

Count me among the converted disciples.

[Mrj]

[kobold]

Tempting, but I will keep waiting for the BBB folder, presuming this is not it.

BBB folder?

Big Brown Bear, AKA DeadBoxHero, AKA Shawn Houston. https://www.triplebhandmade.com/

[troutinCO]

Want.

[TkoK83Spy]

Thanks Shawn, I think that needed to be said. It will be sad when the collectors get their hands on this knife, just to collect dust. Or the folks that will use it for peppers, apples and strawberries...but feel the need for this kind of steel for some reason, and sadly that's probably where a majority of these will be going.

As someone that uses my knives 6 days a week, and quite often throughout the day, and also love the high edge retention steels because of those reasons...I agree, those are made for users!! Not the other way around. There are so many people out that consider sharpening knives as giving them passes on their Sharpmaker brown rods. Which they would then be unsuccessful at actual sharpening, and then likely bash the steel...because they don't have the equipment or skill for it. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things you said. I think people need to step back and think about those things before buying this knife, if they are actually going to be using it. Not just because it's a sprint, a different steel and something even more different with you being so heavily involved. I personally intend on getting one, and will use the crap out of it at work and will be happy to report back my findings, as well as sharpening experience when the time comes.

Again, thanks for that post. I couldn't agree more.

[Wandering_About]

I took the "red pill" like 10 or 15 years ago, still chasing the ghost that is the edge. It's still fun, and this is the best time ever to be a steel and edge enthusiast.

15V is gonna be fun.

[NCJohn62]

Thanks Shawn for everything you've done in terms of educating those of us that wanted more performance and how to get it. I'm truly excited to get my hands on this Manix and to use it. Although my K390 might get a little jealous

[WilliamMunny]

Forgive me if I offend anybody here but I feel the need to speak candidly.

I find it draining sometimes reading comments from people who can't think for themselves and have no experience trying to put something they haven't tried into a category of worry and mediocrity.

If anyone is scared of 15v not being 3v then this isn't the knife for you, I recommend you hold off on this and let other people who have been waiting a long time for this get one.

It's exhausting when people try to act like extreme toughness doesn't come with its own set of problems and its great that Spyderco is accommodating a niche for folks that love edge aggression, understand how to sharpen and like when that time investment into the sharpening lasts with cutting and don't need training wheels and hand holding.

I think there's a lot of people who have been into knives for the past year or two. Most knives in the industry cater to casuals and new guys that are in the two-year cycle of obsession then move on. Not to mention we have folks that will never change, ever. So they will never experience anything different
or grow, so nothing matters to them.

It's a never ending cycle of m390 and titanium, an endless morphing of shapes, milling cuts ,colors and names for the same thing over and over.

This knife is for people who have been waiting for things that cater to people who've been around for two to five plus years and want more features that have been held back because it doesn't cater to casual knife folks.

"Sorry, we can't make that because people don't know how to sharpen so we have to water it down"
-Knife Industry

There is no shortage of casual knife products for that crowd.

This knife is the "redpill."


The folks that will get the most enjoyment out of 15v will be people that understand how to sharpen, how to strop, what a cutting knife edge can and can't do. What edge geometry is, What a carbide is, what diamond/cBN is and why and when they would use it.

There seems to be an army of people that say the high cutting edge retention steels are only for people who don't use their knives or for collectors.

That is incorrect and extremely close minded.

There are too many people that just repeat what they hear and put zero effort into seeing for themselves let alone sharpening their own knife.


I speak from first hand experience and from friends and customers when I say some folks find it extremely refreshing to get a knife with some decent carbide volume and good hardness so that they don't have to stop what they were doing and sharpen.

It is exhilarating to have an edge that keeps the bite and aggression and that doesn't wear smooth in cutting. An edge that grabs and slices ferociously.

Hunting season is here and there are countless people who bring a giant backpack filled with soft steel knives.

Its quite ridiculous but the reason behind it is
so they don't have to stop to sharpen.

There isn't always the time to sit and sharpen when you're in the middle of something, it's cold, you're tired and you're losing daylight.

Well, if you use a steel that actually holds an edge and doesn't wear smooth on animal hide its quite a blessing.

That means leave the bag of knives home.

If the edge is not wearing smooth you'll get cleaner cuts meaning less hair on the meat from tearing hide, you can cut with more precision with less force reducing the chance of accidentally tearing open the peritoneum and making a mess.

This isn't too disparage people that like steels with different properties than 15V. Like Spyderco says these are all different flavors of Steel.

15V is a very exotic and expensive flavor, but is a refreshing taste that we seldom ever get to experience.

-Shawn

Thank you for all of the information, I know I am always trying to learn more about knife steels myself. Unfortunately my full time job is not dealing with knives but it is a hobby that I have fun with and try to learn what I can. As you said there is a lot of miss information out there and it takes a lot to sort it out. I just ordered a PM2 in Cruwear for a EDC to use and not really worry too much about what I am doing with it. I am hoping it is a fairly well rounded steel that will do most things well.

I am interested in trying a high edge retention steel like 15v but I have heard so many negatives about steels like Maxamet and S110V. Most are probably not warranted but people say it will chip, it will rust, the tip will break, etc. On the flip side many people say just don’t abuse it, use it for what a knife was meant for and there will be no issues.

I love the Manix platform and have EDC one for 8 years in S30V. I always wanted something with more edge retention so this could be a good knife for me to get into this type of steel. It will let me experience a high edge retention steel, help me learn how to care for a tool steel in an high humidity area and help me learn how to strop a knife.

Finally so I can lean more why would someone chose 15v over S90V? They are booth around the same toughness, have about the same edge retention but 15v is not stainless.

Thank you again for all the inform and always speak candidly it helps people like me lean. I don’t think you will ever offend anyone if your not rude and if you do, it’s their issue to get over it.