CPM 15v Manix 2

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Ramonade
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1341

Post by Ramonade »

I've been cutting a LOT with mine and a 9 micron gunny juice strop have been able to bring it back 99% each time. I'm only losing 1% at a time, very slowly, it's good !

Now that someone mentionned a Native 5 in this steel, I can't get it out of my head.... In G10 please!!!
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1342

Post by RustyIron »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:20 am
I'm excited that you guys are going to get more Spyderco CPM 15V. It was really fun getting you guys this Heat Treatment.
1. When someone buys a sheet of CPM 15V from the factory, does it arrive with an "off the shelf" heat treatment that is suitable for making a knife? Or does everyone purchase "raw material" that must be heat treated according to standard "recipes?"

2. When you started your CPM 15V experiments, were you confident you could make it better than what had been done in the past? Is it this way with all "off the shelf" steels, where a dedicated craftsman can improve upon the generally accepted practices?
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1343

Post by electro-static »

Ramonade wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:54 am
I've been cutting a LOT with mine and a 9 micron gunny juice strop have been able to bring it back 99% each time. I'm only losing 1% at a time, very slowly, it's good !

Now that someone mentionned a Native 5 in this steel, I can't get it out of my head.... In G10 please!!!
Great to know!
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1344

Post by Bemo »

Ramonade wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:54 am
I've been cutting a LOT with mine and a 9 micron gunny juice strop have been able to bring it back 99% each time. I'm only losing 1% at a time, very slowly, it's good !

Now that someone mentionned a Native 5 in this steel, I can't get it out of my head.... In G10 please!!!
I'd take a linerless G10 even the same brown. Would love to have that BBB logo on it. I can almost see it now.
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Ramonade
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1345

Post by Ramonade »

Bemo wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:00 pm
Ramonade wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:54 am
I've been cutting a LOT with mine and a 9 micron gunny juice strop have been able to bring it back 99% each time. I'm only losing 1% at a time, very slowly, it's good !

Now that someone mentionned a Native 5 in this steel, I can't get it out of my head.... In G10 please!!!
I'd take a linerless G10 even the same brown. Would love to have that BBB logo on it. I can almost see it now.
Totally ! I don't have a linerless N5 yet so it would make a good excuse :winking-tongue . I try to combine 2 of these factors on each buy : new design, new steel, loved steel, good geometry, new construction, ...
I can see it too, and it would actually look very nice in addition to be a killer of a workhorse (even in LW fashion)
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives

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Deadboxhero
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1346

Post by Deadboxhero »

RustyIron wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:21 am



1. When someone buys a sheet of CPM 15V from the factory, does it arrive with an "off the shelf" heat treatment that is suitable for making a knife? Or does everyone purchase "raw material" that must be heat treated according to standard "recipes?"
That would be a disaster if steel came in the hardened condition, there is a lot of processing done to convert a bar/sheet to a knife blank.

The steel comes in the annealed condition

The steel manufacturer makes into a billet from raw materials.

The rolling mill processes the billet into different size sheets by hot rolling which also improves the structure, afterwards its annealed which further improves the structure and makes it ready to process and further HT into hardened condition when ready.

RustyIron wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:21 am

2. When you started your CPM 15V experiments, were you confident you could make it better than what had been done in the past? Is it this way with all "off the shelf" steels, where a dedicated craftsman can improve upon the generally accepted practices?
Of course, I used to work as a freehand professional sharpener and one thing that was noticed is some knives in the same steels but different manufacturers would sharpen differently.

Isn't that odd?

I remember being smitten at the time by the wonderful sharpening experience of Aogami Super, the shop I worked at specialized in Japanese cutlery and water stones.

Tojiro is a mass production japanese kitchen knife company, at the time they had a special run with san mai aogami super for a low cost.

Meanwhile Bladesmith Fujiwara Teruyasu also had knives in Aogami Super and the difference was breath taking.

Isn't that fascinating?

The NAME of a steel on the side of the blade is not universal

While the properties are pretty fixed to the chemistry there is certainly a range of expression, not to say 420HC and be heat treated to Rex 121 or vice versa.
Can't turn lead into gold.

On the Fujiwara, edge came up so crisp and deburred with great elegance (at the the time from what I had experienced prior.)The Tojiro was more stubborn on the burr and also did not hold the front end sharpness as well.


My mind raced

"How is this possible?" "What is going on?" "How does this work?" "I must KNOW!"

My curiosity of what makes the same steel sharpen better and hold the front end sharpness better became an all consuming obsession, an "idée fixe"

That was many years ago and was certainly one of many moments that set me on a curious quest to get answers to my questions.

Well almost 10 years later I have a pretty solid working understanding of how to create what I'm looking for that isn't simply a matter of HRC, it really comes down to the microstructure making up that given HRC.

Some features that make up the microstructure are more desirable than others, because the apex is so small and cannot be seen by the naked eye microstructure is important.
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1347

Post by Sharp24/7 »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:29 pm
RustyIron wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:21 am



1. When someone buys a sheet of CPM 15V from the factory, does it arrive with an "off the shelf" heat treatment that is suitable for making a knife? Or does everyone purchase "raw material" that must be heat treated according to standard "recipes?"
That would be a disaster if steel came in the hardened condition, there is a lot of processing done to convert a bar/sheet to a knife blank.

The steel comes in the annealed condition

The steel manufacturer makes into a billet from raw materials.

The rolling mill processes the billet into different size sheets by hot rolling which also improves the structure, afterwards its annealed which further improves the structure and makes it ready to process and further HT into hardened condition when ready.

RustyIron wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:21 am

2. When you started your CPM 15V experiments, were you confident you could make it better than what had been done in the past? Is it this way with all "off the shelf" steels, where a dedicated craftsman can improve upon the generally accepted practices?
Of course, I used to work as a freehand professional sharpener and one thing that was noticed is some knives in the same steels but different manufacturers would sharpen differently.

Isn't that odd?

I remember being smitten at the time by the wonderful sharpening experience of Aogami Super, the shop I worked at specialized in Japanese cutlery and water stones.

Tojiro is a mass production japanese kitchen knife company, at the time they had a special run with san mai aogami super for a low cost.

Meanwhile Bladesmith Fujiwara Teruyasu also had knives in Aogami Super and the difference was breath taking.

Isn't that fascinating?

The NAME of a steel on the side of the blade is not universal

While the properties are pretty fixed to the chemistry there is certainly a range of expression, not to say 420HC and be heat treated to Rex 121 or vice versa.
Can't turn lead into gold.

On the Fujiwara, edge came up so crisp and deburred with great elegance (at the the time from what I had experienced prior.)The Tojiro was more stubborn on the burr and also did not hold the front end sharpness as well.


My mind raced

"How is this possible?" "What is going on?" "How does this work?" "I must KNOW!"

My curiosity of what makes the same steel sharpen better and hold the front end sharpness better became an all consuming obsession, an "idée fixe"

That was many years ago and was certainly one of many moments that set me on a curious quest to get answers to my questions.

Well almost 10 years later I have a pretty solid working understanding of how to create what I'm looking for that isn't simply a matter of HRC, it really comes down to the microstructure making up that given HRC.

Some features that make up the microstructure are more desirable than others, because the apex is so small and cannot be seen by the naked eye microstructure is important.
Dude, that stuff is fascinating. Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1348

Post by Buddafucco »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:20 am
Image

Color Metallography of CPM 15V

I made this micrograph

this is what the structure of the Spyderco 15V looks like at a microscopic level. The circular "blobs" are significantly harder than the surrounding matrix, they are also responsible for increasing the slicing edge retention.

These "blobs" are called carbides, these ones in particular are all vanadium carbides which are the hardest commonly available in knife steel.

The largest ones range from 3 to 4 microns, that's under half the size of a human red blood cell.

These carbides make up 23% of the steel matrix.
Compared to 17% in 10V and 8% in 4V. This increases resistance resistance to wear at the edge and can increase strength.

I'm excited that you guys are going to get more Spyderco CPM 15V. It was really fun getting you guys this Heat Treatment.

The problem with IG Stories is that your amazing knowledge bombs will disappear after 24hrs. I'm glad you posted this in places where that's not the case. And thank you very much for posting it here also!
Is there any significance to the different colors in your micrograph? Or am I over thinking it?
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1349

Post by inmyhousechillin »

Made an account to comment on this...
I am also curious as to the coloring. When holding my manix at an angle in natural light, I noticed a rainbow colored hue.
At first I thought it was the oils causing the reflection. But after cleaning, it still exists.
Could this be the result of the heat treat?
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1350

Post by Deadboxhero »

Buddafucco wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:47 pm

Is there any significance to the different colors in your micrograph? Or am I over thinking it?
Not on this one, we can definitely geek out and use different etchants and etching protocols to highlight certain and specific features in the future when I'm less busy changing diapers : p
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1351

Post by RustyIron »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:29 pm
some knives in the same steels but different manufacturers would sharpen differently.

Isn't that odd?
On the surface, it DOES seem odd--until you start to think about it. I clarify things in my mind by making analogies. Heat treating is like baking a loaf of bread. You can give flour, water, and yeast to two different chefs, and the result will be two vastly different loaves of bread. And of those two loaves, there is no right or wrong. Each one can be better suited for a specific purpose. How dull would life be if there was only one kind of bread... or one type of knife steel?

Thanks for clarifying a little about the journey from the roller mill to a chunk of steel with qualities that you intended.
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1352

Post by awa54 »

Mushroom wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:41 pm
I haven’t been following this thread too closely but it seems like as good of a time as any to promote the “Random: General Spydie Chat” thread.” It was made specifically for off topic chatter.

“Random: General Spydie Chat” thread

Dang! and here I was thinking that this was the place for OT convos: viewforum.php?f=5
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1353

Post by Mushroom »

awa54 wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:34 am
Mushroom wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:41 pm
I haven’t been following this thread too closely but it seems like as good of a time as any to promote the “Random: General Spydie Chat” thread.” It was made specifically for off topic chatter.

“Random: General Spydie Chat” thread

Dang! and here I was thinking that this was the place for OT convos: viewforum.php?f=5
LOL! You’re right!

I should have been more specific. That thread was made specifically for general chat about Spyderco that is not necessarily worth making its own thread for and for having casual conversations about Spyderco that might otherwise be steering another thread off the original topic it was made for. Enjoy! :discguised
-Nick :bug-red
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1354

Post by dullmaker »

Anybody else want to see a screw constructed Manix Lightweight in 15v?
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1355

Post by Wartstein »

hvarcz wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:58 pm
Is this sprint run in Europe?
I cant see him.
...
Ramonade wrote:
hvarcz wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:58 pm
It should arrive at Lamnia soon. Also Knives&Tools and Coutellerie Tourangelle should have some, but they haven't said so yet.

As Ramonade says and you can request a notification at Lamnia for when they have the knife for sale

Another smaller, but good to work with online store that in my experience often has Spyderco sprint runs is com2you-biwak.de.
Don´t know if this will also be the case with the 15V Manix though.

Best if luck to all of you European fellow forumites who´ll try to score one!!
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1356

Post by Ricey_9 »

https://youtu.be/h6DwlT2NDtU
Haven’t seen this posted anywhere figure i would share.
:bug-red-white
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1357

Post by Enactive »

Ricey_9 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:43 pm
https://youtu.be/h6DwlT2NDtU
Haven’t seen this posted anywhere figure i would share.
Thanks, man. I hadn't seen that one yet.
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1358

Post by Bemo »

I've watched it a couple times now and don't think there was steel left over for a Native run sadly. Really hoping to be wrong. I'd take a Para3 as an alternative.
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1359

Post by TTFulltimer »

dullmaker wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:47 pm
Anybody else want to see a screw constructed Manix Lightweight in 15v?
Even if Spyderco rivets it, you can make it a screw model in about 15 minutes.
Just a crotchety old curmudgeon who has seen a thing or two
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Re: CPM 15v Manix 2

#1360

Post by electro-static »

TTFulltimer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:03 pm
dullmaker wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:47 pm
Anybody else want to see a screw constructed Manix Lightweight in 15v?
Even if Spyderco rivets it, you can make it a screw model in about 15 minutes.
I would love to see a manix LW in 15V
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