CPM 15v Manix 2

[Deadboxhero]

Spyderco Manix 2 CPM 15V Factory Edge

If you look closely you can see the ~23% vanadium carbide volume bristling at the edge.

Do you have any details on the steps you took to achieve that edge?

No, didn't make that edge, that's the factory edge.

If you think it looks good make sure you let Sal and the Spyderco Crew know they did a good job, I think it looks great especially on something that's produced at volume.


For other folks reading this keep in mind edges are highly customizable and you should customize them to your needs.

[Deadboxhero]

Thanks Man, appreciate it. :D

H#ll yeah, Shawn! Stoked for you.

[Deadboxhero]

Nailed it, thanks Jeff.

I would agree with the sentiment that a very low toughness steel like 15v isn't an ideal match for one of the harder use folders in Spyderco's lineup such as the Manix.

Personally I'd much rather see a 10v Manix2, and they would have my money in an instant for that configuration.

But no doubt people are going to buy it, and it is coming in at quite a nice price point, so I can certainly see the draw for those eager to try out this steel.

Keep in mind, the toughness of 15V is not far behind M390 and the standard S30V so I don't think they are straying from the base design and philosophy. If you are just looking for straight toughness as in fracture resistance then we would want to be in the H1 or LC200N range. I know those would be popular for other reasons, but not why getting 15V is such a huge leap and great nod from Spyderco to the steel fans. Who knows, but I would guess Shawn appreciates the Manix design and wanted to see it in that model from Golden. All around a really cool Collab and one that is unique to see unfold.

[ChrisinHove]

… I am most likely buying a Busa in the spring….

Fantastic! A bit different from the Africa Twin…

I’m gonna keep the AT. I put quite a few miles on it this year and I love it. I couldn’t imagine a more practical motorcycle for me. It’s the Swiss Army knife of motorcycles. Everything you could ask for but not exciting. It’s perfect.

They are gonna force electric bikes on us soon so the next 10 years will be the swan song of internal combustion super bikes. I might as well buy the 15V Manix of motorcycles while I still can.

It will be a weekend toy that I keep the miles low on and maybe someday it will be highly collectible and worth a fortune. I think a lot of folks look at some of their more exotic knife purchases that same way and that ok.

Sounds like a great plan & an exciting prospect! I hope there are some fast roads nearby.

It’s also a very good analogy although I’m reasonably sure both the Hayabusa & 15V are beyond my competencies…

[WilliamMunny]

I want to try one of these out, but it seems that the edge is nerding beyond my obvious interpretation.

Shawn what is the ideal application of 15V in a pocket knife? Since I've had no experience with the steel, much less one with an ideal heat treat, why did you choose 15V to put your stamp on?

Well, its been no secret I've been a big huge fan of K390 and 10V over the years. I've also enjoyed Maxamet.


When I first looked at 15V several years ago it piqued my interest as perhaps a sleeper or a sweet spot, like the top end of the A11 type steels without going into Rex121/Maxamet territory.

The heat treatment from the data sheet yielded disappointing results at the knife edge so work was done to focus the attributes of the 15v towards knife use specifically to increase the edge stability and sharpenability compared to the data sheet heat treatment.

The ideal application is the same application you would use for steels like k390, 10V and Maxamet.

If you're using knives for cutting and they seem to be blunting smooth during your cutting task requiring you to stop and hone then steels like 15V synergize nicely in that role. If you're also doing a cutting task that requires slicing an elastic, medium density materials with draw cuts like animal hide and tissue the additional aggression at the edge does seem to help with this.

The 15V should fit into a nice sweet spot between the K390 and the Maxamet.

More edge holding than K390 but less toughness.
Less edge holding than Maxamet but more toughness.



I find steels such as K390, 10V, PMA11, Vanadis 10, Vanadis 8 and Vancron are in a really nice high strength and wear category which most people who like CPM M4 for will definitely like this range/class of steel.

Back when K390 was first coming out with Spyderco, people were very concerned about it not being tough enough and saying that CPM M4 was better overall due to fear of lack in durability in K390. However, we saw with hard use testing that K390 was basically an "M4 Killer" like Doc Dan said and that the decrease in toughness in real world wasn't going to be seen as much on a small knife because the added strength made up for any lack of toughness you would see at the edge.

As it turns out, resistance to deformation is incredibly crucial for a small knife and people are often confusing what the want in toughness with what they need in strength.

CPM 15V is basically the king of the 10V, K390 range of cold work PM tool steels in regards to wear resistance without moving into further trade-offs with Rex 121 and Maxamet.

-Shawn

Best explanation of 15v I have seen so far. Do you think 15v will ever replace Maxamet as a more standard steel since it is a little more well rounded than Maxamet but has almost as much wear resistance?

Plus as you mentioned before if someone finds 15v too prone to damage they can change the edge geometry to say 20DPS and it would make a big difference. Have you tested how it cuts at higher (17-20) DPS?

[TkoK83Spy]

If I wasn't already sold a few days ago, I sure am now. Heck, I still love M4 and then K390 was the "M4 killer" and this stuff is better than K390! That right there is a selling point to give this steel a try.

[Manixguy@1994]

I’m in ! The steel intrigues me and after seeing the color of scales posted ( thank you ) it just has to happen for me . MG2

[Eli Chaps]

...

Well, its been no secret I've been a big huge fan of K390 and 10V over the years. I've also enjoyed Maxamet.
...

-Shawn

Excellent explanation Shawn. I am not gentle with my K390 and it always rewards me with excellent performance so 15V sounds awesome.

And damnit if I didn't find myself looking at the Maxamet M2LW last night. No, I didn't pull the trigger but it was my first real serious contemplation of doing so. :)

[abbazaba]

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!

Also, I think a smooth stonewash finish will be great like it was on the Maxamet models... wipes clean easier! My G10 Police4 is a corrosion magnet with it's comparatively rough finish.

I'm glad you went with G10 because that price point is remarkable (and I already have some other scales waiting for a new home if I'm not feeling it). If it all shakes out like it sounds like it will, maybe we'll see a BBB Manix ride this wave of excitement into production in the future? Or hopefully more sprint runs of different Golden models?

[Senfkarte]

...

I find steels such as K390, 10V, PMA11, Vanadis 10, Vanadis 8 and Vancron are in a really nice high strength and wear category which most people who like CPM M4 for will definitely like this range/class of steel.

Back when K390 was first coming out with Spyderco, people were very concerned about it not being tough enough and saying that CPM M4 was better overall due to fear of lack in durability in K390. However, we saw with hard use testing that K390 was basically an "M4 Killer" like Doc Dan said and that the decrease in toughness in real world wasn't going to be seen as much on a small knife because the added strength made up for any lack of toughness you would see at the edge.

As it turns out, resistance to deformation is incredibly crucial for a small knife and people are often confusing what the want in toughness with what they need in strength.

CPM 15V is basically the king of the 10V, K390 range of cold work PM tool steels in regards to wear resistance without moving into further trade-offs with Rex 121 and Maxamet.

-Shawn

Ok, until now, I just guessed, I would like this steel. Now I know.
Came from really liking M4, then discovering K390 and loving it.
In the last few month I almost just carried K390, Rex 45 and LC200N. And I am really happy with this mix. Can't miss this one.

[salimoneus]

According to REC they will be making a Manix 10V (Scorpion) with DLC, 2023 release they hope. It takes care of the toughness and rust issue if that is a concern, but it won’t hold an edge as long.

But there is just something cool about this collaboration and the effort that went into it.

Yea, good luck scoring one of those, they seem to sell out in under a minute, with a 3x secondary markup.

[salimoneus]

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!
<snip>

No doubt that since apparently it's his collab project, calling it "king of ..." is just more of the same marketing/sales pitch type stuff we saw regarding Magnacut. Of course the product you're putting out is the best thing ever, if you don't say that you're not doing your job as a business person.

All these steels are making various trade-offs, so I'm not really on board with calling 15v a killer/king of anything. Some attributes are being sacrificed for other attributes, a reality which is always going to be present. Currently I'm not excited about taking a step back in toughness from K390/10v, but others may be totally fine making that trade-off, it all depends on each person's particular needs.

[WilliamMunny]

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!
<snip>

No doubt that since apparently it's his collab project, calling it "king of ..." is just more of the same marketing/sales pitch type stuff we saw regarding Magnacut. Of course the product you're putting out is the best thing ever, if you don't say that you're not doing your job as a business person.

All these steels are making various trade-offs, so I'm not really on board with calling 15v a killer/king of anything. Some attributes are being sacrificed for other attributes, a reality which is always going to be present. Currently I'm not excited about taking a step back in toughness from K390/10v, but others may be totally fine making that trade-off, it all depends on each person's particular needs.

Shaun is excited about this project and good for him. In regards of the “king of” quote, he said 15v is the king “in regards to wear resistance without moving into further trade-offs with Rex 121 and Maxamet.”

I think this is a true statement and it will have better wear resistance than 10v or k390. Is this the best steel, we all know there is no best steel, but this will have increased wear resistance close to Maxamet but with toughness like M390. For some people this is a perfect combo, for a lot it won’t be as you said.

MagnaCut was great because it took a well balance steel like Cruwear and made it stainless without giving up much in the way of toughness and edge retention.

[Deadboxhero]

You nailed it, Thanks Will, sometimes I think I need an interpreter.

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!
<snip>

No doubt that since apparently it's his collab project, calling it "king of ..." is just more of the same marketing/sales pitch type stuff we saw regarding Magnacut. Of course the product you're putting out is the best thing ever, if you don't say that you're not doing your job as a business person.

All these steels are making various trade-offs, so I'm not really on board with calling 15v a killer/king of anything. Some attributes are being sacrificed for other attributes, a reality which is always going to be present. Currently I'm not excited about taking a step back in toughness from K390/10v, but others may be totally fine making that trade-off, it all depends on each person's particular needs.

Shaun is excited about this project and good for him. In regards of the “king of” quote, he said 15v is the king “in regards to wear resistance without moving into further trade-offs with Rex 121 and Maxamet.”

I think this is a true statement and it will have better wear resistance than 10v or k390. Is this the best steel, we all know there is no best steel, but this will have increased wear resistance close to Maxamet but with toughness like M390. For some people this is a perfect combo, for a lot it won’t be as you said.

MagnaCut was great because it took a well balance steel like Cruwear and made it stainless without giving up much in the way of toughness and edge retention.

[Eli Chaps]

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!
<snip>

No doubt that since apparently it's his collab project, calling it "king of ..." is just more of the same marketing/sales pitch type stuff we saw regarding Magnacut. Of course the product you're putting out is the best thing ever, if you don't say that you're not doing your job as a business person.

All these steels are making various trade-offs, so I'm not really on board with calling 15v a killer/king of anything. Some attributes are being sacrificed for other attributes, a reality which is always going to be present. Currently I'm not excited about taking a step back in toughness from K390/10v, but others may be totally fine making that trade-off, it all depends on each person's particular needs.

So, thinking that Shawn would mislead the community in the name of marketing and sales is naive at best. Shawn does a ton of background work and if he's going to say something, he's going to have researched, studied, tested, etc. to the -nth degree to make certain he knows what he's saying and his name is behind it and you can trust what he says.

Shawn's contributions to the knife community far exceed this offering and he has a proven track record of both his knowledge and his commitment to knife users.

That said, you are surely free to your opinions and the good news for you is, since Spyderco has already taken so many risks and heard all the same feedback on so many other steels, like K390, you have a ton of choices and won't need to bother with any 15V or MagnaCut. :)

[Deadboxhero]

...

Well, its been no secret I've been a big huge fan of K390 and 10V over the years. I've also enjoyed Maxamet.
...

-Shawn

Excellent explanation Shawn. I am not gentle with my K390 and it always rewards me with excellent performance so 15V sounds awesome.

And damnit if I didn't find myself looking at the Maxamet M2LW last night. No, I didn't pull the trigger but it was my first real serious contemplation of doing so. :)

You can't go wrong with Maxamet, it's a total beast
If you like that high top speed with some trade offs.

I'll do a comparison between the Maxamet Manix 2 lightweight. My buddy Kurt has one that he hasn't sharpened for over a year and he was blown away by the edge holding on the maxamet, I told him I really wanted to check out that edge to see how it held up in real world use since he uses it all the time and he still hasn't sharpened it which is pretty dang awesome, he's used a lot of steels and Cruwear was his favorite but he was shocked by the edge retention on the maxamet.

We'll look at the used edge under the microscope and compare to his used cruwear edge.

I'll sharpen them up, we can do a little bit of testing and then I'll sharpen them again and get him his knives back.

[Deadboxhero]

I don't necessarily see CPM 15V as a Maxamet replacement.

That's the best part about Spyderco is they always push the envelope to get all these different steels out to you guys to try all these different "Flavors" and open people's minds to the wonders of the almost infinite combinations of steel.

I want to try one of these out, but it seems that the edge is nerding beyond my obvious interpretation.

Shawn what is the ideal application of 15V in a pocket knife? Since I've had no experience with the steel, much less one with an ideal heat treat, why did you choose 15V to put your stamp on?

Well, its been no secret I've been a big huge fan of K390 and 10V over the years. I've also enjoyed Maxamet.


When I first looked at 15V several years ago it piqued my interest as perhaps a sleeper or a sweet spot, like the top end of the A11 type steels without going into Rex121/Maxamet territory.

The heat treatment from the data sheet yielded disappointing results at the knife edge so work was done to focus the attributes of the 15v towards knife use specifically to increase the edge stability and sharpenability compared to the data sheet heat treatment.

The ideal application is the same application you would use for steels like k390, 10V and Maxamet.

If you're using knives for cutting and they seem to be blunting smooth during your cutting task requiring you to stop and hone then steels like 15V synergize nicely in that role. If you're also doing a cutting task that requires slicing an elastic, medium density materials with draw cuts like animal hide and tissue the additional aggression at the edge does seem to help with this.

The 15V should fit into a nice sweet spot between the K390 and the Maxamet.

More edge holding than K390 but less toughness.
Less edge holding than Maxamet but more toughness.



I find steels such as K390, 10V, PMA11, Vanadis 10, Vanadis 8 and Vancron are in a really nice high strength and wear category which most people who like CPM M4 for will definitely like this range/class of steel.

Back when K390 was first coming out with Spyderco, people were very concerned about it not being tough enough and saying that CPM M4 was better overall due to fear of lack in durability in K390. However, we saw with hard use testing that K390 was basically an "M4 Killer" like Doc Dan said and that the decrease in toughness in real world wasn't going to be seen as much on a small knife because the added strength made up for any lack of toughness you would see at the edge.

As it turns out, resistance to deformation is incredibly crucial for a small knife and people are often confusing what the want in toughness with what they need in strength.

CPM 15V is basically the king of the 10V, K390 range of cold work PM tool steels in regards to wear resistance without moving into further trade-offs with Rex 121 and Maxamet.

-Shawn

Best explanation of 15v I have seen so far. Do you think 15v will ever replace Maxamet as a more standard steel since it is a little more well rounded than Maxamet but has almost as much wear resistance?

Plus as you mentioned before if someone finds 15v too prone to damage they can change the edge geometry to say 20DPS and it would make a big difference. Have you tested how it cuts at higher (17-20) DPS?

[Steeltoez83]

In my own version of resistance to deformation low volume cut testing cpm m4 was the winner last round. Now I have strict guidelines for my testing. And if I'm fortunate to acquire 15V I plan on setting it against 25 knives and 20 other steels. My rex76 mule has another testing edge before I apply testing standards. And list them in direct comparisons to these 24. Now the last result I have for rex76 was 25 rounds of survival. Now 15V has a 374.194% increase in vanadium over rex76 but I think the rex76 is likely to have higher overall hrc. And since Shawn is a sharpener at heart, I predict the temper will be spot on. And 15V will have much higher resistance to deformation than spec sheets show. He cherry picked the details for a good reason. I think anyone who's fortunate to get their paws on this 15V will have something above the m4 and slightly below what my rex76 is achieving. But that's just my opinion from someone who has used his heat treated steel extensively.

[IndianaTony]

From a business standpoint, 15V with a really good, reliable heat treat may get reasonably close to Maxamet's performance with better yields. I get the impression Maxamet (just based on the amount I've seen at the past two seconds sales) can be pretty finicky.

I don't have a Manix yet, and 15V sounds like a great balance for what I like in a steel, so I'm definitely hoping to get one.

[WilliamMunny]

From a business standpoint, 15V with a really good, reliable heat treat may get reasonably close to Maxamet's performance with better yields. I get the impression Maxamet (just based on the amount I've seen at the past two seconds sales) can be pretty finicky.

I don't have a Manix yet, and 15V sounds like a great balance for what I like in a steel, so I'm definitely hoping to get one.

I forget who said it but when working with Maxamet it tended to warp. I guess just part of the difficulty I. Working with it.