Golden factory…next level factory edges

[Manifestgtr]

The last two Golden knives I’ve gotten (the REC Manix and the M4 shaman) have had unbelievable, razor sharp, reflective factory edges.

I’m trying to think back…I don’t remember them being like this before. I seem to remember my Z-wear Shaman and M390 Manix coming with more “ground” edges.

Has anyone else noticed this little change or am I making things up?

[Evil D]

Seems hit and miss from all the factories honestly. I've had edges I don't think I could rival, and I've had edges that made me question if the knife was used and returned. I do think they've gotten more consistently sharp in recent years though.

[SteveMidwest]

The last two Golden knives I’ve gotten (the REC Manix and the M4 shaman) have had unbelievable, razor sharp, reflective factory edges.

I’m trying to think back…I don’t remember them being like this before. I seem to remember my Z-wear Shaman and M390 Manix coming with more “ground” edges.

Has anyone else noticed this little change or am I making things up?

It's funny that you should mention this now, Manifestgtr, and that I should catch your Post. Mainly because you are absolutely right!

I have noticed it too, and, I know of a Collector Club member who has tested the sharpness on every Spyderco knife that has come out, for about the last two years. So we have a very good idea of what Spyderco's BESS base sharpness level is. Then now, just recently. They have all of a sudden taken a noticeable jump up in the sharpness level. We (BESS sharpness testing community) have tested recently for example. 5 or 6 of the REC Manix 2 knives, and every one of them was sub 75. That has never even come close, to ever happening before. It's nuts. Mine tested 55 in two different spots!

It's hard for me to remember for sure too, just exactly which knife it started with? But I'm pretty sure it started happening 'about' two weeks before the REC Manix 2 dropped. Which coincidentally, just happens to be about how long REC sat on that batch before dropping them. Mainly due to REC being extremely busy at the time the knives arrived, with their new location/store move/opening.

[ZrowsN1s]

I find sub 75 BESS on a factory edge hard to believe. 55 even harder. 50 BESS is as sharp as an ultra thin fresh out of the package bic razor you shave your face with. I have a WE130 with all the bells and whistles it's hard for me to get a sub 100. I don't think I've ever gotten lower than 80ish. Maybe I'm just bad at sharpening or bad at BESS testing. Both are possible.

Anyways I decided to test my REC Manix out as it hasn't been used or reprofiled yet, I did 6 tests on the PT50A tester, 3 with the fulcrum 3 without, all within 170-180 BESS. Factory edge angle measured at 17 and 16 degrees with the goniometer. These results are what I would expect from a good factory edge. It is sharp enough to easily shave arm hair.



If they really had 6 sub 100 knives tested, Spyderco should find which one of their guys sharpened them and give him a raise.

*I will add that it does seem to have a better edge than most factory edges. If I drag a beard hair across the edge it will grab it.

[resonanzmacher]

The edge on the Cruwear Yojimbo 2 I just got seems more polished than the typical Golden edge, which looks pretty distinctive IMO. Can’t say it’s any sharper overall though, just like they took it to a finer finish.

[apollo]

My last knife was a HH exclusive urban.
While the fit and finish was very good on that one the edge was the dullest i have ever gotten from spyderco.
On the otherhand the Manix XL before that was perfect in every way and came very very sharp out of the box. But the winner is the knife before that one. I found possibly the last brandnew g10 rex 45 manix 2 In my country's region and that thing is just plain crazy sharp. I do not know if the steel helps it or not but its by far the sharpest spydie i have ever gotten out of the box. So i guess Golden is really amazing on there factory edges but italy has some work to do.

[Manifestgtr]

The edge on the Cruwear Yojimbo 2 I just got seems more polished than the typical Golden edge, which looks pretty distinctive IMO.

That’s what got my attention initially. More polished and a really pronounced, “blocky” looking pattern across the edge when you reflect light off of it. It’s almost hypnotic…

[cjk]

...
I have noticed it too, and, I know of a Collector Club member who has tested the sharpness on every Spyderco knife that has come out, for about the last two years. So we have a very good idea of what Spyderco's BESS base sharpness level is. Then now, just recently. They have all of a sudden taken a noticeable jump up in the sharpness level. We (BESS sharpness testing community) have tested recently for example. 5 or 6 of the REC Manix 2 knives, and every one of them was sub 75. That has never even come close, to ever happening before. It's nuts. Mine tested 55 in two different spots!
....

I don't guess that there's a spreadsheet or something which the curious could peruse?

[Cheddarnut]

Is this ‘blocky’ phenomenon due to a mechanized sharpening process?

[Giygas]

Is this ‘blocky’ phenomenon due to a mechanized sharpening process?

There's a Spyderco shop tour video on YouTube from 7 years ago (I think) that shows a robotic arm doing the sharpening, so that's not a recent development. At least not as recent as that 'blocky' appearance.

I believe the general consensus on that pattern is that it's caused by a miniscule amount of chatter in the wheel.

Edit: The whole video (and part 1) is definitely worth watching, but skip to 7:20 to see the actual sharpening process: https://youtu.be/_Du7AFPKIuw

[Cheddarnut]

Is this ‘blocky’ phenomenon due to a mechanized sharpening process?

There's a Spyderco shop tour video on YouTube from 7 years ago (I think) that shows a robotic arm doing the sharpening, so that's not a recent development. At least not as recent as that 'blocky' appearance.

I believe the general consensus on that pattern is that it's caused by a miniscule amount of chatter in the wheel.

Edit: The whole video (and part 1) is definitely worth watching, but skip to 7:20 to see the actual sharpening process: https://youtu.be/_Du7AFPKIuw

Well I'll be, can't recall if i've ever seen that video, glad i did just now. Robots and children and kindness and steel, and parts that get sanded by hand on a wheel...

[apollo]

Is this ‘blocky’ phenomenon due to a mechanized sharpening process?

There's a Spyderco shop tour video on YouTube from 7 years ago (I think) that shows a robotic arm doing the sharpening, so that's not a recent development. At least not as recent as that 'blocky' appearance.

I believe the general consensus on that pattern is that it's caused by a miniscule amount of chatter in the wheel.

Edit: The whole video (and part 1) is definitely worth watching, but skip to 7:20 to see the actual sharpening process: https://youtu.be/_Du7AFPKIuw

Yes they have a robot sharpening there blades at golden but if I remember correctly the robot only sharpens a portion of the blades and some are still sharpened by hand. ( no idea of the ratio or if its still done today )

[Fireman]

The recent M4 and 204P factory edges were excellent. The 204P though has been such a great fit, finish and function that I want to just baby it and play with it. The M4 action, fit and finish is excellent but I need to tweak it because it rubs at the nub a tad when closing. It will take me a while before I rough use them like they are intended.

[JD Spydo]

I've always had great luck with every one of the GOLDEN CO made models I've bought over the years.

The C-36 Military and PM 2 models will both be considered two of the finest Spyderco models ever produced for a long time to come>> and for good reason.

[SteveMidwest]

I find sub 75 BESS on a factory edge hard to believe. 55 even harder. 50 BESS is as sharp as an ultra thin fresh out of the package bic razor you shave your face with. I have a WE130 with all the bells and whistles it's hard for me to get a sub 100. I don't think I've ever gotten lower than 80ish. Maybe I'm just bad at sharpening or bad at BESS testing. Both are possible.

Anyways I decided to test my REC Manix out as it hasn't been used or reprofiled yet, I did 6 tests on the PT50A tester, 3 with the fulcrum 3 without, all within 170-180 BESS. Factory edge angle measured at 17 and 16 degrees with the goniometer. These results are what I would expect from a good factory edge. It is sharp enough to easily shave arm hair.



If they really had 6 sub 100 knives tested, Spyderco should find which one of their guys sharpened them and give him a raise.

*I will add that it does seem to have a better edge than most factory edges. If I drag a beard hair across the edge it will grab it.

Oh no, you're are blowing our REC Manix 2 average ZrowsN1s!

I'm sorry to be so slow in getting back here about this. The weather has just been so perfect!

I also have the PT50A, and ODC-4-EDC has the PT50B. We test with the spool and Fulcrum (No clips). I'll link one of the videos here below, in this comment section.

When I am sharpening. My average is about 130 when I'm done, but that is mostly due to lack of patience. If we are having a snow storm for example, and I'm watching a movie while sharpening/stropping. I have sometimes (rarely) gotten down to around 90. I have never (yet:) gotten below that.

We have tested about 2000 Spyderco knives now between us, over the past few years. Twice that, easily, when counting all of the non-Spyderco knives. All since this tester first became available from Mike Brubacher. So that is why I mentioned earlier, that this latest bump in Spyderco sharpness. Has really gotten our attention, and been a noticeable surprise. I suspect that either the robot was changed out, re-programmed, speed changed, or Spyderco has changed their belt supplier or grit/progression. Maybe Sal will chime in about it?

Spyderco not only offers us a wide variety of wonderful steel choices, and hardness. They are also Top Dog when it come to average out of the box sharpness. Some others do come down near the double digits to play once in a great while, but not even close when it come to consistency and average. How many people knew that about Spyderco, I wonder?

Just for some more background info, for those that don't know. Prior to August 2022. Spyderco's sharpness average was about 110-120. Rarely hitting 90, or going above 130. That is industry leading, for a company producing folding pocket knives in anywhere near the numbers Spyderco does.

Here is just one of the latest videos of testing. I hope I have been able to link this video here, so that it will start when the testing begins. If not? Go to the 11:00 minute mark >



Black Subway Bowie (Japan) - 170 BESS
Satin Subway Bowie (Japan) - 135
XHP Para 3 LW (Golden) - 100
Blade HQ Exclusive Shaman M4 DLC (Golden) - 85
REC Manix 2 204P (Golden) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 55
Blade Ops Exclusive Shaman Satin Elmax (Golden) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 90
Ambitious 8Cr13MoV (China) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 115
Fradon Lock Para 3 Elmax (Golden) - 90

[ZrowsN1s]

I find sub 75 BESS on a factory edge hard to believe. 55 even harder. 50 BESS is as sharp as an ultra thin fresh out of the package bic razor you shave your face with. I have a WE130 with all the bells and whistles it's hard for me to get a sub 100. I don't think I've ever gotten lower than 80ish. Maybe I'm just bad at sharpening or bad at BESS testing. Both are possible.

Anyways I decided to test my REC Manix out as it hasn't been used or reprofiled yet, I did 6 tests on the PT50A tester, 3 with the fulcrum 3 without, all within 170-180 BESS. Factory edge angle measured at 17 and 16 degrees with the goniometer. These results are what I would expect from a good factory edge. It is sharp enough to easily shave arm hair.



If they really had 6 sub 100 knives tested, Spyderco should find which one of their guys sharpened them and give him a raise.

*I will add that it does seem to have a better edge than most factory edges. If I drag a beard hair across the edge it will grab it.

Oh no, you're are blowing our REC Manix 2 average ZrowsN1s!

I'm sorry to be so slow in getting back here about this. The weather has just been so perfect!

I also have the PT50A, and ODC-4-EDC has the PT50B. We test with the spool and Fulcrum (No clips). I'll link one of the videos here below, in this comment section.

When I am sharpening. My average is about 130 when I'm done, but that is mostly due to lack of patience. If we are having a snow storm for example, and I'm watching a movie while sharpening/stropping. I have sometimes (rarely) gotten down to around 90. I have never (yet:) gotten below that.

We have tested about 2000 Spyderco knives now between us, over the past few years. Twice that, easily, when counting all of the non-Spyderco knives. All since this tester first became available from Mike Brubacher. So that is why I mentioned earlier, that this latest bump in Spyderco sharpness. Has really gotten our attention, and been a noticeable surprise. I suspect that either the robot was changed out, re-programmed, speed changed, or Spyderco has changed their belt supplier or grit/progression. Maybe Sal will chime in about it?

Spyderco not only offers us a wide variety of wonderful steel choices, and hardness. They are also Top Dog when it come to average out of the box sharpness. Some others do come down near the double digits to play once in a great while, but not even close when it come to consistency and average. How many people knew that about Spyderco, I wonder?

Just for some more background info, for those that don't know. Prior to August 2022. Spyderco's sharpness average was about 110-120. Rarely hitting 90, or going above 130. That is industry leading, for a company producing folding pocket knives in anywhere near the numbers Spyderco does.

Here is just one of the latest videos of testing. I hope I have been able to link this video here, so that it will start when the testing begins. If not? Go to the 11:00 minute mark >



Black Subway Bowie (Japan) - 170 BESS
Satin Subway Bowie (Japan) - 135
XHP Para 3 LW (Golden) - 100
Blade HQ Exclusive Shaman M4 DLC (Golden) - 85
REC Manix 2 204P (Golden) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 55
Blade Ops Exclusive Shaman Satin Elmax (Golden) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 90
Ambitious 8Cr13MoV (China) - Test #1 - 70 Test #2 - 115
Fradon Lock Para 3 Elmax (Golden) - 90

Thanks for the response! So it's not an error then, wow. That IS really impressive.

I know it's not from Golden, but I just tested the Rex76 Mule from Taichung the other night and it scored in the 110 range, which is the sharpest out of the box I've tested so far. Cutting one cardboard box into tiny pieces brought it down to 180ish. Remarkable how fast initial sharpness fades.

[vivi]

funny watching these videos. i put together a "bess tester" myself 20 years ago with a postal scale, scrap piece of wood with a V notch cut into it, nails on each side and a spool of thread.

most factory edges i tested were 80-150 grams of force, but I got some in the 40's.

[T-1000]

My manix xl has the best factory edge I've ever had. Grind is dead on perfect and absolutely screaming sharp. Spyderco always has good factory edges but this one stood out noticeably. First thing I thought was " **** whoever put this one on needs a raise."

[SteveMidwest]

I know it's not from Golden, but I just tested the Rex76 Mule from Taichung the other night and it scored in the 110 range, which is the sharpest out of the box I've tested so far. Cutting one cardboard box into tiny pieces brought it down to 180ish. Remarkable how fast initial sharpness fades.

What are the chances that when you tested the Rex 76 Mule after some use, the 180 was because of some residue left over from the cutting, on the blade edge?

That's a pretty big drop for Rex 76, I would think.

I always do a quick stropping before cut testing, to make sure there is no glue or anything on the edge. Just a few cleaning passes, so I don't consider it 'cheating'

I should get a chance to duplicate (approximately) your test sometime this coming week, if you could tell me about how big your box was, and how much cutting you did, to get your 'tiny pieces;.

[Michal O]

My Lil Native has such mirrored edge but... uneven and recurved near fingerchoil. So anyway I will need to make new one in future.