Izula Equivalent

[vivi]

personally I think in a knife this size you don't gain anything going carbon over stainless. the vg10 perrins can stand up to batoning anything a 3.5" blade is big enough for. you lose corrosion resistance to gain toughness that won't likely ever come into play.

Seconding this. I've batoned a drop-point Enuff & it stood up to the impacts perfectly fine. At that length, a sufficiently thick VG-10 blade will probably be just as "tough" as a similarly-sized 1095 blade, with the added advantage of corrosion resistance & better edge retention.

precisely.

out of curiosity i looked up larrins ratings. 4.5 toughness for 1095, 4 for vg10.....and 8.5 for lc200n.

maybe an lc200n drop point street beat is the answer

[Scandi Grind]

I don't know if it would make it much cheaper, but if a carbon steel was of notably less cost, that would be the advantage in my eyes. Otherwise, I just like carbon, no justification required.

I am curious about the handle shape on the Street Beat. I haven't ever found myself super thrilled with having pronounced finger grooves for your front finger, but it could just be that I am not yet used to it. Does anyone find that it restricts the number of grips they can use though?

I have liked the Izula's handle, it is neutral enough that it accommodates a variety of holds. It's not that I find many of these holds necessary, but I do find it convenient. I use a sideways pinch grip a lot, and I have found this to be uncomfortable on handles with pronounced finger grooves.

[Toucan]

I'm definitely sold on the street beat as a great knife. This thread has probably bumped it up on the list of knives to get soon. LC200N would be a very cool variant too.

I'll keep hoping for a 2.5" 52100 skeletonized leaf shape fixie @62HRC, but we are well-served by the Street Beat.

The issue is immaterial, as both are functionally plenty tough for all chores their size permits, but I do wonder about the toughness of Spyderco's VG10 at a presumably higher hardness compared to Esee's 1095.

I believe that some would find 1095 easier to sharpen when out and about compared to VG10 (though with the ubiquity of pocket diamond stones and the general increase in sharpening skills, this is less likely). Not to over-evaluate 1095, this thread is about a hypothetical knife explicitly not using that steel.

[Evil D]

I'm definitely sold on the street beat as a great knife. This thread has probably bumped it up on the list of knives to get soon. LC200N would be a very cool variant too.

I'll keep hoping for a 2.5" 52100 skeletonized leaf shape fixie @62HRC, but we are well-served by the Street Beat.

The issue is immaterial, as both are functionally plenty tough for all chores their size permits, but I do wonder about the toughness of Spyderco's VG10 at a presumably higher hardness compared to Esee's 1095.

I believe that some would find 1095 easier to sharpen when out and about compared to VG10 (though with the ubiquity of pocket diamond stones and the general increase in sharpening skills, this is less likely). Not to over-evaluate 1095, this thread is about a hypothetical knife explicitly not using that steel.

If you're really prioritizing outright brutal strength over everything else, get an Enuff. It's a thick, thickly ground plank of H1 that will probably take more abuse than any other knife in this size range.

[Toucan]

I'm definitely sold on the street beat as a great knife. This thread has probably bumped it up on the list of knives to get soon. LC200N would be a very cool variant too.

I'll keep hoping for a 2.5" 52100 skeletonized leaf shape fixie @62HRC, but we are well-served by the Street Beat.

The issue is immaterial, as both are functionally plenty tough for all chores their size permits, but I do wonder about the toughness of Spyderco's VG10 at a presumably higher hardness compared to Esee's 1095.

I believe that some would find 1095 easier to sharpen when out and about compared to VG10 (though with the ubiquity of pocket diamond stones and the general increase in sharpening skills, this is less likely). Not to over-evaluate 1095, this thread is about a hypothetical knife explicitly not using that steel.

If you're really prioritizing outright brutal strength over everything else, get an Enuff. It's a thick, thickly ground plank of H1 that will probably take more abuse than any other knife in this size range.

Only in an abstract sense. I do prefer less overbuilt knives in general use, but I will definitely be getting an Enuff eventually for the reasons you mentioned. Not to say it isn't useful, but I do enjoy certain knives as functional novelties. The kind of things that prioritize an attribute above all else to the detriment of all others is kind of an interesting phenomenon. H1 is wonderful for being unreasonably tough and corrosion resistant. It almost feels like cheating to get 2/3 of all one could ever want out of a steel from a single material.

[SchoonerBum]

personally I think in a knife this size you don't gain anything going carbon over stainless. the vg10 perrins can stand up to batoning anything a 3.5" blade is big enough for. you lose corrosion resistance to gain toughness that won't likely ever come into play.

Seconding this. I've batoned a drop-point Enuff & it stood up to the impacts perfectly fine. At that length, a sufficiently thick VG-10 blade will probably be just as "tough" as a similarly-sized 1095 blade, with the added advantage of corrosion resistance & better edge retention.

precisely.

out of curiosity i looked up larrins ratings. 4.5 toughness for 1095, 4 for vg10.....and 8.5 for lc200n.

maybe an lc200n drop point street beat is the answer

This. The lc200n Street Beat.

I'll concur that there is minimal gain from carbon at this size. I learned to baton years ago with a stainless Frost - the knife that is now the Mora Companion. I've always found it sufficiently tough for small, light knife work and it's really affordable. Admittedly I'd rather have an lc200n Street Beat or Street Bowie.

[vivi]

I don't know if it would make it much cheaper, but if a carbon steel was of notably less cost, that would be the advantage in my eyes. Otherwise, I just like carbon, no justification required.

I am curious about the handle shape on the Street Beat. I haven't ever found myself super thrilled with having pronounced finger grooves for your front finger, but it could just be that I am not yet used to it. Does anyone find that it restricts the number of grips they can use though?

I have liked the Izula's handle, it is neutral enough that it accommodates a variety of holds. It's not that I find many of these holds necessary, but I do find it convenient. I use a sideways pinch grip a lot, and I have found this to be uncomfortable on handles with pronounced finger grooves.

carbon steels certainly have a nice sharpening response. I do appreciate that aspect of them.

the handle on the sb works great for me. For some reason people get hung up about deep choils on fixed blades but no one bats an eye at a Native. The handle fully accomodates my XXL hands, something most pocket sized fixed blades do not do. The Izula 1 being among the offenders.

I use the pinch grip a lot too. if you look close at my izula 2 you'll see I contoured the micarta near the tang for better ergos in that specific grip.

To me they're both great knives but neither are perfect "woods knives." Bit thick for cutting food, thick factory edges do poorly carving wood, jimping isn't needed with the deep guard IMO and gets abrasive in prolonged use, etc.

But in any possible scenario I would personally pick my street beat over my Izula 2. I'm not even sure when I last carried my Izula now that I think about it.

If we were to go back to the original idea before I kind of side tracked this thread with my comparison, here's what I'd like to see:

A2 steel @ 60rc, 2mm stock, full flat grind, 2.75"-3" blade.

Blade profile like an Izula with a 50% more mellow belly.

No jimping.

Micarta scales 3D contoured similar to the Street Beats handle swell, but with the transition to the tang contoured like my customized izula. Dark green in color.

No choil.

Moderate guard, not quite as deep as the Izula or Street Beat.

Below is the Landi PSK. It has a lot of these features but comes with bad geometry and is a bit heavier than I'd like for a small knife. Other than that and the choil, it's pretty close to what I'm picturing.

[Toucan]

I don't know if it would make it much cheaper, but if a carbon steel was of notably less cost, that would be the advantage in my eyes. Otherwise, I just like carbon, no justification required.

I am curious about the handle shape on the Street Beat. I haven't ever found myself super thrilled with having pronounced finger grooves for your front finger, but it could just be that I am not yet used to it. Does anyone find that it restricts the number of grips they can use though?

I have liked the Izula's handle, it is neutral enough that it accommodates a variety of holds. It's not that I find many of these holds necessary, but I do find it convenient. I use a sideways pinch grip a lot, and I have found this to be uncomfortable on handles with pronounced finger grooves.

carbon steels certainly have a nice sharpening response. I do appreciate that aspect of them.

the handle on the sb works great for me. For some reason people get hung up about deep choils on fixed blades but no one bats an eye at a Native. The handle fully accomodates my XXL hands, something most pocket sized fixed blades do not do. The Izula 1 being among the offenders.

I use the pinch grip a lot too. if you look close at my izula 2 you'll see I contoured the micarta near the tang for better ergos in that specific grip.

To me they're both great knives but neither are perfect "woods knives." Bit thick for cutting food, thick factory edges do poorly carving wood, jimping isn't needed with the deep guard IMO and gets abrasive in prolonged use, etc.

But in any possible scenario I would personally pick my street beat over my Izula 2. I'm not even sure when I last carried my Izula now that I think about it.

If we were to go back to the original idea before I kind of side tracked this thread with my comparison, here's what I'd like to see:

A2 steel @ 60rc, 2mm stock, full flat grind, 2.75"-3" blade.

Blade profile like an Izula with a 50% more mellow belly.

No jimping.

Micarta scales 3D contoured similar to the Street Beats handle swell, but with the transition to the tang contoured like my customized izula. Dark green in color.

No choil.

Moderate guard, not quite as deep as the Izula or Street Beat.

Below is the Landi PSK. It has a lot of these features but comes with bad geometry and is a bit heavier than I'd like for a small knife. Other than that and the choil, it's pretty close to what I'm picturing.

I have a Black Jack model 7 in A2 that I am quite fond of. Beyond that I haven't used any A2. Odd/sad we don't see much A2 anymore. I'd be happy to see it in this knife. That also segues to the potential of a convex grind on this knife. Might be nice.

2mm would also be my preferred stock. Though that might be a bit punishing for use without scales, which is how I imagine this knife.

I do find myself wanting just barely any belly. Maybe it's because I don't skin game or anything, but I just rarely find much belly to be of any use.

I don't have a strong opinion on the finger choil. Though when I do imagine this hypothetical knife, I imagine basically a Native 5 silhouette.

[vivi]

Belly is handy when you need it, but terrible when you don't. Knives the size of the Izula, Street Beat etc. have an issue for me where they tend to slip off of materials I'm slicing due to the pronounced belly. Something about halfway between an Izula blade profile and wharnie sounds ideal to me.

I not big on scaleless fixed blades or cord wraps. Tried the Izula those ways and the small micarta scales make a massive difference in comfort for me. As long as there are either optional aftermarket scales or removable stock scales everyone could be happy here.

A2 gets overlooked for some reason. Much better edge holding than 1095 while still being very tough. It's like 1095 and D2 had a baby. Edge holding, toughness, corrosion resistance and sharpening response is in between those two steels IME. It's also very, very cheap.

[Doc Dan]

I notice no one is comparing the Enuff to the Izula. Why is that? They are about the same size.

[Toucan]

Vivi,

Yes. I have virtually abandoned my Rat 2 folder because the belly and tip are cumbersome.

Scaleless fixies aren't my cup of tea on larger models, but in this size format I like it because it makes for a very unobtrusive carry for something that will most likely be used light to moderately and not for a prolonged period of time.

52100 is my current favorite cheapo carbon steel. Been using it in a Cold Steel fixie and a few other models from other makers, and it's really speaking to me. I'm eager to try Spyderco's rendition of it, but it is currently unreasonably cost-prohibitive on the second hand market.

Doc, I think the Enuff, has been mentioned a couple times as a very close match. If the scales were removable or they offered an H1 plain edge leaf shape, this thread probably wouldn't even exist. Honestly, the model kinda slipped my mind until people mentioned it.

[Enactive]

An LC200N Street Beat with a pinned and polished micarta handle, like the early model would rock.

FRN and LC200N would be cool too. Then it could match the Subway.

[Evil D]

I notice no one is comparing the Enuff to the Izula. Why is that? They are about the same size.

I looked into this years ago and didn't love the handle shape, it's a bit small for my hand despite being a bit larger than the Izula, but the Enuff handle has that hook at the pinky where the Izula does not which makes it less comfortable for me. At the time I ended up with a BK14 which I really don't see why anyone would choose an Izula 1/2 over it anyway, it has more edge length and a better blade grind and a better sheath and smoother blade coating and at the time was even less expensive.

[Doc Dan]

Yeah, that hook is a problem on a number of Spyderco models. It would be better if we could take the scales off, also. It is kind of a tank and would be a good knife to replace the Izula and BK14 if those two issues were addressed. It is a pretty good knife, though.

[aicolainen]

For anything outdoor I tend to prefer stainless and I haven’t even considered using a knife without scales.
The Subway bowie isn’t available here yet, but I think it’ll serve very well as a compact, easy to carry option for outdoor use. So until proven otherwise, I assume that base should be covered.

For work and/or EDC I’ve been thinking there may be a small gap in my current options, that I believe could be fulfilled by something along the lines of what the OP is suggesting.
Compact in length, slim carry profile, tough steel and affordable would be a great fit for the task.
Ideally it would come with very thin, removable FRN scales (Micarta would be a nicer material, but I assume FRN is tougher and could be made thinner).
I’d want a leather sheath that could serve multiple carry options, like horizontal belt carry, inside pocket or just attached to a molle panel in a backpack/bag. This is kind of a big ask for something that needs to be affordable, so I wouldn’t mind having to make the sheath myself.

[Scandi Grind]

Belly is handy when you need it, but terrible when you don't. Knives the size of the Izula, Street Beat etc. have an issue for me where they tend to slip off of materials I'm slicing due to the pronounced belly. Something about halfway between an Izula blade profile and wharnie sounds ideal to me.

I not big on scaleless fixed blades or cord wraps. Tried the Izula those ways and the small micarta scales make a massive difference in comfort for me. As long as there are either optional aftermarket scales or removable stock scales everyone could be happy here.

A2 gets overlooked for some reason. Much better edge holding than 1095 while still being very tough. It's like 1095 and D2 had a baby. Edge holding, toughness, corrosion resistance and sharpening response is in between those two steels IME. It's also very, very cheap.

I've wondered about A2. It seemed great from everything I've ever read, but it is not used very much. I wonder if it would even be good in some Spyderco folders. It would be very cool to see some A2 in their line-up.