Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

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derangedhermit
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Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#1

Post by derangedhermit »

I find my Native and Chief harder to start opening than my Enduras, Police, etc. I think it's just a matter of opening hole vs. pivot geometry. Like on a clock face: the Native is at 33 minutes past, the Endura is at 37 minutes past, and you gotta get the minute hand to on the hour. That first 4 minutes is the difference. (Maybe.)

Where does the Shaman, with its wider (taller) blade, fall in ease of starting to open: closer to an Endura, or about like the Native / Native Chief?
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wrdwrght
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#2

Post by wrdwrght »

Being a compression-lock Spydie, the Shaman’s detent is far easier to get past than the more resistant self-closing spring on the mid-locks you’ve mentioned. Some people don’t prefer compression locks for this reason.
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VooDooChild
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#3

Post by VooDooChild »

Shaman is easier.
Both because of the comp lock and the hole sits farther above the scale in the closed position.
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#4

Post by JRinFL »

Sal will confirm that, to a point, the higher the hole the easier to open. Endura and others with a hump put the hole higher relative to the pivot. That said, for me, the Native is so easy to open that it is hard for me to see the difference. How is your thumb flexibility? If it is impaired, the Spydercos with the hump might be your best bet.
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James Y
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#5

Post by James Y »

I don't have a Shaman, but I've never found my G10 Native 5, Native Chief (or any of my Spyderco knives), difficult to open at all. Of course, my PM2, Para 3, etc., compression lock knives have less resistance to opening, due to only having a tiny ball detent holding the blade closed, vs a backspring.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the recent Golden-made back locks have been re-engineered to be stronger, so to some they may seem to be a tiny bit harder to open than Seki back locks. But TBH, again, I've never felt any difficulty opening any of them.

Of course, everybody's different, so YMMV.

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derangedhermit
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#6

Post by derangedhermit »

Thanks for the replies, folks. I didn't think about the lock type also making a difference. My Yojumbo is very easy for me to intentionally open.
JRinFL wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:42 pm
Sal will confirm that, to a point, the higher the hole the easier to open. Endura and others with a hump put the hole higher relative to the pivot. That said, for me, the Native is so easy to open that it is hard for me to see the difference. How is your thumb flexibility? If it is impaired, the Spydercos with the hump might be your best bet.
I haven't done any thumb flexibility tests, but they seem fine, normal. Maybe hand size has something to do with it, since I have 2XL/3XL hands - not thick, just outsized.
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#7

Post by JRinFL »

derangedhermit wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:53 pm
Thanks for the replies, folks. I didn't think about the lock type also making a difference. My Yojumbo is very easy for me to intentionally open.
JRinFL wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:42 pm
Sal will confirm that, to a point, the higher the hole the easier to open. Endura and others with a hump put the hole higher relative to the pivot. That said, for me, the Native is so easy to open that it is hard for me to see the difference. How is your thumb flexibility? If it is impaired, the Spydercos with the hump might be your best bet.
I haven't done any thumb flexibility tests, but they seem fine, normal. Maybe hand size has something to do with it, since I have 2XL/3XL hands - not thick, just outsized.
Yes, at that hand size you will have trouble with the lower holes, for sure. Members vivi & Giant80 have large hands as well and they seem to gravitate to knives similar to the Endura, like the Police, Pacific Salt, and Stretch 2 XL. For the record, my hand size is somewhere between large and XL depending glove brand.

Others have figured out a way to open the knives with their middle finger, but I've never been able to do that easily or consistently.
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Michal O
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#8

Post by Michal O »

Middle finger opening is the best. No problems with Shaman or Lil Native. But sometimes Para 3 fails me. And detent on her is strong.
Current collection: Lil Temperance G10, Shaman, Lil Native, Massad Ayoob cruwear, Smock, Street Beat, Street Bowie, Para 3, PM2 purple G10 cruwear, Canis, Rhino, Endura 4 K390, Watu, Kapara, Amalgam, Sliverax, Police 4 se K390, Police 4 pe K390, Khukuri, Barong, Ulize.
derangedhermit
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#9

Post by derangedhermit »

I had to sharpen the kitchen knives, so I got out the folding knives also, and experimented on initial ease of opening. For me, the three easiest to open (of the back lock Spydercos I own) are: 1-Rockjumper, 2-Stretch 2 XL, 3-Police 4 LW.

There's very little difference in ease of opening of these three for me. What I could feel, and then become conscious of, is they all have in common the large (largest?) opening hole. I think blade length and weight may be a factor here in distinguishing among these three.

Next, surprising to me that it's not quite at the same level as the first three, is the Endura 4 at fourth easiest to get started opening. Geometry is similar to first three, but the opening hole is a little smaller.

Fifth is the Native 5, and last in ease of initial opening is the Native Chief. Smaller hole that is less accessible and disadvantageous geometry are the suspected reasons.
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#10

Post by derangedhermit »

OK, it's been almost a year, and actual resolution of my hard-to-open Native and Native Chief may have happened last week. The backlock spring bar in these two models has a bend about 4mm from one end, the end I will call "the short end". It seems that putting the spring bar in with the short end pointing up (angled out of the back of the knife) makes it significantly harder to open than with the short end parallel with the back of the knife.

I had left these two fine knives in a drawer for years, and last week I finally decided to get them fixed or get rid of them. I removed one grip panel, studied the situation, cleaned some old lube out, flipped the spring bar in each one, and now they are both fine, just fine. Works like a champ. I'm an idiot. I must have misassembled them not long after I bought them.
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#11

Post by vivi »

I originally passed on the Native Chief the first time I handled one in person because the opening action didn't work as well for me as the Police 4, which came out around the same time.

One of, if not the main reason I prefer the Pacific Salt over the Siren too.

For me its a combination of really big thumbs and a partially obscured opening hole.

Models with partially covered opening holes are nice and slim in the pocket, which I appreciate. But I don't find my Police, Pacific Salt or Military modded for tip up too wide in the pocket.

The Shaman didn't do it for me for unrelated reasons, but ease of opening is high with that model.
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Naperville
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Re: Shaman vs Native / Native Chief ease of opening

#12

Post by Naperville »

My Native Chiefs don't "fly" open. I turn my left shoulder at the intended target / perp, and draw the knife to my right hip which is not slightly occluded. Then while keeping an eye on the target, reach around with my left hand to open the knife two handed.

I have purchased the 5x5 Combat Solutions PICKPOCKET for one handed draw and opening, just haven't installed it yet. I need to install it...maybe in the next couple of days, and then I'll buy more of them for my other knives.

https://5x5combatsolutions.com/shop/ols ... o-ccessory
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