BHQ Shaman M4 Assembly QC issues?

[SpyderForLyfe]

Hello, all... But particularly Spyderco staff:

I received the BHQ exclusive M4 Shaman recently, and I wanted to point out a few issues.

First, the good news: it is a beautiful masterpiece and it immediately became one of my favorites. As I normally do, I completely broke it down as soon as I received it. I wiped it down, inspected it, oiled it, reapplied loctite, recentered the blade, etc.

As it stands right now, it's perfect. The is no blade play, it's dead center, and everything is right and tight as it should be and I have ZERO concerns. My complaint is definitely not about materials QC.

However when I first opened the box, there was definitely blade play and it was heavily off center and the pocket clip was not as tight as it should've been... Or at least not as tight as every other spyderco I've bought in the past.

Some YouTube research helped me discover that my Shaman was not a one-off. This seems to be the case for a lot of these BHQ Shamans.

I'm posting this for a couple of reasons:

1. I obviously want to make spyderco aware that there might be and assembly QC problem that they should investigate

2. For those of you that are reluctant to purchase this for these reasons, I wanted to assure you that they are ALL correctable and you CAN tune this model back into perfect shape with little effort. And yes, it's still available!

Thanks for reading!

[Evil D]

You lost me at "YouTube research". Even if there are 50 videos pointing this out, your sample size is tiny.

Keep in mind these knives are assembled by humans. Are you 100% perfect at your job 100% of the time? If it's just an assembly issue that you can and did fix and isn't a manufacturing defect, then I'd say it's not a big deal. Centering can be tweaked, screws can be tightened. Be happy it's not a warped blade or uneven grind or something that you can't easily fix.

[Ranger_Ike]

To me, out of adjustment is definitely not a quality problem. I love getting a knife that I have to tinker with to make perfect for ME.

Honestly, if there was a “ship disassembled” option, I’d check that box every time.

[Danvp]

Unfortunately i have massive blade play in my Z-wear Shaman. It is there closed and in any open position when not locked. Only when fully opened the blade play is gone. I have tried everything to correct it, but haven’t found the right solution yet.

Therefor i am very curious about possible solutions. OP can you share your found solution with us? I am very interested because the micarta Shaman is one of my most preferred knives because of the excellent ergonomics.

[SpyderForLyfe]

You lost me at "YouTube research". Even if there are 50 videos pointing this out, your sample size is tiny.

Keep in mind these knives are assembled by humans. Are you 100% perfect at your job 100% of the time? If it's just an assembly issue that you can and did fix and isn't a manufacturing defect, then I'd say it's not a big deal. Centering can be tweaked, screws can be tightened. Be happy it's not a warped blade or uneven grind or something that you can't easily fix.

Boy there's always one.

In case you missed the tone of my post, it was informative, not critical. I am aware that they are built by humans, but it seems that this particular batch has a higher rate of assembly QC issues than most spyderco products.

As for "YouTube research" that's an expression... Meaning I didn't put a ton of effort into actual research, so I was acknowledging that it wasn't extensive. That's why I put "YouTube research" and not simply "research".

I also acknowledged that all of the issues can be easily corrected. You're simply repeating what I originally wrote.

I posted it because I wanted spyderco aware of it so they can decide if it's an issue they need to investigate.

You seem very defensive over this. Your attitude of "shut up and take what they give you and be grateful for it" as if I got it for free or something is unacceptable. If I'm paying north of $250 for a knife, I'm going to have some basic expectations.

You get that one of the major points of this message board is for people to voice concerns, right?

[SpyderForLyfe]

Unfortunately i have massive blade play in my Z-wear Shaman. It is there closed and in any open position when not locked. Only when fully opened the blade play is gone. I have tried everything to correct it, but haven’t found the right solution yet.

Therefor i am very curious about possible solutions. OP can you share your found solution with us? I am very interested because the micarta Shaman is one of my most preferred knives because of the excellent ergonomics.

I found a video that might help... https://youtu.be/ka2jqHy-L8k

I hope this corrects your shaman!!

[SpyderForLyfe]

To me, out of adjustment is definitely not a quality problem. I love getting a knife that I have to tinker with to make perfect for ME.

Honestly, if there was a “ship disassembled” option, I’d check that box every time.

I agree with you 100%! Every knife I buy gets immediately disassembled and tuned anyway.

I just figured spyderco would want to know about this. They are known for their legendary quality. And let's face it, not everyone is like you and I in this respect.

[Danvp]

Unfortunately i have massive blade play in my Z-wear Shaman. It is there closed and in any open position when not locked. Only when fully opened the blade play is gone. I have tried everything to correct it, but haven’t found the right solution yet.

Therefor i am very curious about possible solutions. OP can you share your found solution with us? I am very interested because the micarta Shaman is one of my most preferred knives because of the excellent ergonomics.

I found a video that might help... https://youtu.be/ka2jqHy-L8k

I hope this corrects your shaman!!

Thanks for sharing. The blade play on my Shaman is up and down in the direction of opening and closing. The tip moves 0,1 inch (3 mm). Centering is not the issue in this case. I hope you found a solution for the blade play as well. Much appreciated.

[Evil D]

You lost me at "YouTube research". Even if there are 50 videos pointing this out, your sample size is tiny.

Keep in mind these knives are assembled by humans. Are you 100% perfect at your job 100% of the time? If it's just an assembly issue that you can and did fix and isn't a manufacturing defect, then I'd say it's not a big deal. Centering can be tweaked, screws can be tightened. Be happy it's not a warped blade or uneven grind or something that you can't easily fix.

Boy there's always one.

In case you missed the tone of my post, it was informative, not critical. I am aware that they are built by humans, but it seems that this particular batch has a higher rate of assembly QC issues than most spyderco products.

As for "YouTube research" that's an expression... Meaning I didn't put a ton of effort into actual research, so I was acknowledging that it wasn't extensive. That's why I put "YouTube research" and not simply "research".

I also acknowledged that all of the issues can be easily corrected. You're simply repeating what I originally wrote.

I posted it because I wanted spyderco aware of it so they can decide if it's an issue they need to investigate.

You seem very defensive over this. Your attitude of "shut up and take what they give you and be grateful for it" as if I got it for free or something is unacceptable. If I'm paying north of $250 for a knife, I'm going to have some basic expectations.

You get that one of the major points of this message board is for people to voice concerns, right?

Ya know what....to be completely blunt honest on this forum just for once...


I am so sick of reading about the most trivial issues with knives that I often think about logging out and not coming back. It's getting so ridiculous. Every other day it's some BS about blade centering or blade play and the most minute anal retentive details, people have gotten so unrealistic with their expectations and it's just well beyond being old and tired and it's getting to where this forum is just a place to complain. If I seem defense it's because I've been a blue collar worker my entire life and I understand what it feels like to work your *** off making knives only to see people complaining about the tiniest little details, and they're almost always details like this that the user can easily fix so why complain about it? If it really mattered you'd send it back to Golden and let them deal with it. If I worked for this company there's no way in **** I'd ever come to this forum because it would just crush my spirit. I honestly don't know how Sal has tolerated it for this long, he seriously is a saint and has the patience of a zen master.


Like I said, your sample size is not large enough to make claims like this. Even in a smallish ~1200 piece sprint, how many have you actually seen with this "issue"? 5? 50? Out of the total batch ran, that's not a large enough sample size to make claims about flaws when the vast majority of the rest of them don't have any issues. People see a couple videos or comments on forums that match their own and they run with it like it's the absolute fact, it just doesn't work that way. How many people have no issues at all? Are we operating by the "one apple spoils the bunch" mentality?

I highly HIGHLY doubt that posting on this forum will get the feedback to where it needs to go, and if it does make it then there is a human being working long shifts muttering to themselves "I'd like to see YOU come your *** into this factory and turn these tiny screws all day and assemble hundreds of knives a day and let's see YOU make the fit and finish and blade centering absolutely perfect on each and every one of them" and they're laughing at these complaints because they're just unrealistic.

I'm just saying, if it's an assembly issue and not a manufacturing issue maybe just try to have some empathy sometimes. As a person who is constantly judged by my performance at work and constantly dealing with over entitled unrealistic opinions from people who couldn't do my job better than I do it if their lives depended on it.......empathy.


And I'm sorry, I don't mean this crap towards solely you, I guess it's just been building up for a while and you're that final piece of straw.

[SpyderForLyfe]

Thanks for sharing. The blade play on my Shaman is up and down in the direction of opening and closing. The tip moves 0,1 inch (3 mm). Centering is not the issue in this case. I hope you found a solution for the blade play as well. Much appreciated.

Ohhhh gotcha, now I understand. Hmmm that could be wear on the compression lock, maybe? 3mm seems like a LOT of play. Do you have another Shaman you can use? I recommend swapping blades with another Shaman (if you can) and that will help you determine where the problem is by process of elimination.

[SpyderForLyfe]

Ya know what....to be completely blunt honest on this forum just for once...


I am so sick of reading about the most trivial issues with knives that I often think about logging out and not coming back. It's getting so ridiculous. Every other day it's some BS about blade centering or blade play and the most minute anal retentive details, people have gotten so unrealistic with their expectations and it's just well beyond being old and tired and it's getting to where this forum is just a place to complain. If I seem defense it's because I've been a blue collar worker my entire life and I understand what it feels like to work your *** off making knives only to see people complaining about the tiniest little details, and they're almost always details like this that the user can easily fix so why complain about it? If it really mattered you'd send it back to Golden and let them deal with it. If I worked for this company there's no way in **** I'd ever come to this forum because it would just crush my spirit. I honestly don't know how Sal has tolerated it for this long, he seriously is a saint and has the patience of a zen master.


Like I said, your sample size is not large enough to make claims like this. Even in a smallish ~1200 piece sprint, how many have you actually seen with this "issue"? 5? 50? Out of the total batch ran, that's not a large enough sample size to make claims about flaws when the vast majority of the rest of them don't have any issues. People see a couple videos or comments on forums that match their own and they run with it like it's the absolute fact, it just doesn't work that way. How many people have no issues at all? Are we operating by the "one apple spoils the bunch" mentality?

I highly HIGHLY doubt that posting on this forum will get the feedback to where it needs to go, and if it does make it then there is a human being working long shifts muttering to themselves "I'd like to see YOU come your *** into this factory and turn these tiny screws all day and assemble hundreds of knives a day and let's see YOU make the fit and finish and blade centering absolutely perfect on each and every one of them" and they're laughing at these complaints because they're just unrealistic.

I'm just saying, if it's an assembly issue and not a manufacturing issue maybe just try to have some empathy sometimes. As a person who is constantly judged by my performance at work and constantly dealing with over entitled unrealistic opinions from people who couldn't do my job better than I do it if their lives depended on it.......empathy.


And I'm sorry, I don't mean this crap towards solely you, I guess it's just been building up for a while and you're that final piece of straw.

Congrats! You're the first person to make it to my ignore list

[Evil D]

Proud to be there. It needed said whether you like it or not.

[TkoK83Spy]

Proud to be there. It needed said whether you like it or not.

I feel you 100% I blame it on Youtube, and Nick Shabbazz is the biggest problem. Sometimes I read comments on his videos and it's absolutely disgusting how much his followers idolize him and everything he says, or thinks. I've noticed a few different newer members posting over the past few months and they even use some of his little quirky words he likes to use and I feel like driving ice pikes through my eyes.

The worst part is, I'm willing to bet MOST of the people with these insane complaints are typically fiddlers or extremely light users where centering and blade play wouldn't effect anything in their daily life of using a knife.

OP - I'm not directing this to you personally, but there really has been a lot of whining and crying around these parts. As someone that's also on the forum quite frequently like David, I totally understand where he's coming from.

Also, do yourself a favor and don't add him to your ignore list...you're screwing yourself out of a TON of knowledge and experience if you do. Especially you ever have any interest or questions relating to serrated edges. Overall he contributes a lot here. I'd reconsider that.

[DSH007]

You lost me at "YouTube research". Even if there are 50 videos pointing this out, your sample size is tiny.

Keep in mind these knives are assembled by humans. Are you 100% perfect at your job 100% of the time? If it's just an assembly issue that you can and did fix and isn't a manufacturing defect, then I'd say it's not a big deal. Centering can be tweaked, screws can be tightened. Be happy it's not a warped blade or uneven grind or something that you can't easily fix.

Boy there's always one.

In case you missed the tone of my post, it was informative, not critical. I am aware that they are built by humans, but it seems that this particular batch has a higher rate of assembly QC issues than most spyderco products.

As for "YouTube research" that's an expression... Meaning I didn't put a ton of effort into actual research, so I was acknowledging that it wasn't extensive. That's why I put "YouTube research" and not simply "research".

I also acknowledged that all of the issues can be easily corrected. You're simply repeating what I originally wrote.

I posted it because I wanted spyderco aware of it so they can decide if it's an issue they need to investigate.

You seem very defensive over this. Your attitude of "shut up and take what they give you and be grateful for it" as if I got it for free or something is unacceptable. If I'm paying north of $250 for a knife, I'm going to have some basic expectations.

You get that one of the major points of this message board is for people to voice concerns, right?

Ya know what....to be completely blunt honest on this forum just for once...


I am so sick of reading about the most trivial issues with knives that I often think about logging out and not coming back. It's getting so ridiculous. Every other day it's some BS about blade centering or blade play and the most minute anal retentive details, people have gotten so unrealistic with their expectations and it's just well beyond being old and tired and it's getting to where this forum is just a place to complain. If I seem defense it's because I've been a blue collar worker my entire life and I understand what it feels like to work your *** off making knives only to see people complaining about the tiniest little details, and they're almost always details like this that the user can easily fix so why complain about it? If it really mattered you'd send it back to Golden and let them deal with it. If I worked for this company there's no way in **** I'd ever come to this forum because it would just crush my spirit. I honestly don't know how Sal has tolerated it for this long, he seriously is a saint and has the patience of a zen master.


Like I said, your sample size is not large enough to make claims like this. Even in a smallish ~1200 piece sprint, how many have you actually seen with this "issue"? 5? 50? Out of the total batch ran, that's not a large enough sample size to make claims about flaws when the vast majority of the rest of them don't have any issues. People see a couple videos or comments on forums that match their own and they run with it like it's the absolute fact, it just doesn't work that way. How many people have no issues at all? Are we operating by the "one apple spoils the bunch" mentality?

I highly HIGHLY doubt that posting on this forum will get the feedback to where it needs to go, and if it does make it then there is a human being working long shifts muttering to themselves "I'd like to see YOU come your *** into this factory and turn these tiny screws all day and assemble hundreds of knives a day and let's see YOU make the fit and finish and blade centering absolutely perfect on each and every one of them" and they're laughing at these complaints because they're just unrealistic.

I'm just saying, if it's an assembly issue and not a manufacturing issue maybe just try to have some empathy sometimes. As a person who is constantly judged by my performance at work and constantly dealing with over entitled unrealistic opinions from people who couldn't do my job better than I do it if their lives depended on it.......empathy.


And I'm sorry, I don't mean this crap towards solely you, I guess it's just been building up for a while and you're that final piece of straw.

Stands to initiate slow clap.

Epic post. Add in a paragraph about Europeans complaining about the cost of buying Spydercos and it seriously deserves a sticky somewhere at the top of this forum..

[TkoK83Spy]

*looks at Rick, both slowly nodding our heads as we stand and clap together*

[SpyderForLyfe]

You guys need to chill. This isn't a religious experience or anything. I paid over $200 for a knife that came with a wobbly blade. That's the point you're missing. Period, end of story. And you are making a lot of assumptions about my level of daily knife use. I will post what I want, and if you don't like it, ignore me. That's it.

[Vaugith]

I've handled 6 lnib shaman of different runs and I'd say only two were assembled to perfection. Some were minor issues that I would let slide, but others were major issues - my Zwear came with the blade rubbing the inside of the scales and there is a permanent mark on the nub and liners from this. My rex45 came with significant blade play due to the burr on the pivot hole in liner issue. Acting like this type of stuff is normal and getting overly defensive is counter productive. Other major players in the knife industry at price points and manufacturing directly competing with Spyderco do not have these issues. If you want to ignore the issues and pretend everything is fine, the outside knife world is going to notice and a reputation is going to be built...

[Evil D]

I don't think anyone is missing your point. We've got the point hundreds of times over. What you don't seem to get is in manufacturing there are levels of tolerance for these sorts of things, you spent $200 on this knife not $2000, and what's really happening with these posts is busting the chops of a person who doesn't get enough credit for the work they do the rest of the thousands of times they do it perfectly.


And sincerely, I am sorry. I don't mean all this towards you specifically, your post really wasn't even that bad, but that's not the point. It's high time somebody started sticking up for the people actually doing the work. It's not even about being a "Spyderco fanboy" anymore , it's about being a "hard working employee fanboy" thing. If the issue is something that the average user can fix, then geez just fix it and let it go. Feedback is great and all but again...empathy. Do you or anyone honestly think you could do better? If so put in your application and prove it.

Oh, and on the other side of this coin let's also complain about production delays so that the management and people who are being held accountable for production goals get pressured and then they go back to that person assembling knives and tell them to pick up the pace because someone on the forum has had to wait two months for the knife they were promised in the reveal. Because we don't just want it absolutely flawless but we also want it in our hands yesterday. Make it perfect and make it impossibly fast because "muh money" demands it.

[JSumm]

Also, do yourself a favor and don't add him to your ignore list...you're screwing yourself out of a TON of knowledge and experience if you do. Especially you ever have any interest or questions relating to serrated edges. Overall he contributes a lot here. I'd reconsider that.

I will 2nd this. I don't mind a little push and pull. Keeps us sharp and our minds out of an echo chamber. D is just frustrated, it is not personal to you. I would hesitate to make a sweeping decision right away. He is a great contributor to the forum.

[SixShot666]

To be honest, blade play and an off-centered knife are two very miniscule problems that can be easily corrected. Granted you're spending $250-$300 for a knife, but do keep in mind these are production knives NOT custom pieces ($2,000-$15,000), where these little nitpicks are to be expected.