Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

[anycal]

PM2 for me. I feel it is more appropriate more often than the Shaman, as an EDC. And both G10 Manix 2 and Shaman are a favorite of mine. Some pics for comparison,

[kennethsime]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.

If I was looking for a Shaman right now I’d jump on that in a heartbeat - one heck of a knife!

Blade HQ has DLC M4 in stock with micarta scales, but it's even more than $208 so it might be more than you want to pay.

[Wartstein]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

..

Cruwear and Z-wear were sprint runs as far as I know (I think the Rex45 too, not sure though).
So just one batch and will never be produced in the exact same configuration again.
In fact the ZWear Shaman was already kind of a "second Cruwear" run cause the steels are virtually the same (from what I read, I am np expert by any means )

Anyway: Just for me the S30V Shaman would be a great choice anyway. Perfect EDC steel, very nice stonewash finish.

[WilliamMunny]

PM2 for me. I feel it is more appropriate more often than the Shaman, as an EDC. And both G10 Manix 2 and Shaman are a favorite of mine. Some pics for comparison,

Super helpful pictures. Length wise there really is not a ton of difference. How is the width on them when they are folded up? I am assuming the shaman carries the biggest/fattest and the PM2 carries the smallest?

Also how is the black coating standing up with moderate Year after year EDC use? I am a fan of tool steels like M4 but you always worry a bit about rust. I have never been a fan of the black coating out of fear that after a few years it would get totally scratched up and look like heck.

[WilliamMunny]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

..

Cruwear and Z-wear were sprint runs as far as I know (I think the Rex45 too, not sure though).
So just one batch and will never be produced in the exact same configuration again.
In fact the ZWear Shaman was already kind of a "second Cruwear" run cause the steels are virtually the same (from what I read, I am np expert by any means )

Anyway: Just for me the S30V Shaman would be a great choice anyway. Perfect EDC steel, very nice stonewash finish.

How often do they have spirt runs and are the revels the only way that you know they are coming?

I am trying to avoid S30V as I am not a huge fan of it. I know it is super popular and a good steel but I find on my Manix it can chip a bit and does not take as sharp an edge as my BD1N Alcyone or Z-Wear Mule. I read somewhere that someone wrote it does everything pretty good but nothing great. I think that describes it pretty well.

Maybe I will hold out for a MagnaCut PM2 or Shaman depending on whichever one comes out first.

[VooDooChild]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

..

Cruwear and Z-wear were sprint runs as far as I know (I think the Rex45 too, not sure though).
So just one batch and will never be produced in the exact same configuration again.
In fact the ZWear Shaman was already kind of a "second Cruwear" run cause the steels are virtually the same (from what I read, I am np expert by any means )

Anyway: Just for me the S30V Shaman would be a great choice anyway. Perfect EDC steel, very nice stonewash finish.

How often do they have spirt runs and are the revels the only way that you know they are coming?

I am trying to avoid S30V as I am not a huge fan of it. I know it is super popular and a good steel but I find on my Manix it can chip a bit and does not take as sharp an edge as my BD1N Alcyone or Z-Wear Mule. I read somewhere that someone wrote it does everything pretty good but nothing great. I think that describes it pretty well.

Maybe I will hold out for a MagnaCut PM2 or Shaman depending on whichever one comes out first.

The only steel for the production shaman is s30v.
But the shaman does have plenty of sprints and exclusives. It seems to have gotten a few a year for the last 3 or 4 years.

Blade HQ just had a dlc cpm m4 shaman with micarta handles. Its actually still in stock right now! They probably held some back from the initial release. You could buy that or you can wait no telling how long until the next sprint or exclusive. I have a dlc m4 shaman and it is a beast of a knife.

[Wartstein]

..

How often do they have spirt runs and are the revels the only way that you know they are coming?

I am trying to avoid S30V as I am not a huge fan of it. I know it is super popular and a good steel but I find on my Manix it can chip a bit and does not take as sharp an edge as my BD1N Alcyone or Z-Wear Mule. I read somewhere that someone wrote it does everything pretty good but nothing great. I think that describes it pretty well.
...

Oh man, "how often do they have sprint runs" is a tough one...
I really don't know, there is no "rule" or regularity.

Perhaps folks with more "sprint run experience" will chime in.
I personally never joined the sprint run game, cause with popular models it looks to be really stressfull, especially for non Americans (one has to be ready at the right time and try and try and hope to get an order through - at least that's what it looked like to me).

I have/had four sprint runs (not Shamans of course) though, but these obviously were not so popular and easy to get even some time after their release or even used for a good price.

But then there are dealer exclusives too - soecial versions of models, and differently to a real sprint runs exclusives could get produced and be availablein the exact same configuration some time later again.

A good thing for getting aware of coming sprints certainly is to have an eye on this forum and to suscribe to the "Reveals".

[VooDooChild]

If you mean having one knife, and one knife only, I would go for the PM2, but having only one knife would be madness….

It’s more of the next knife. Plus there is always the wife factor..z spending $200 on a knife is one thing… spending $200 on a PM2 and $300 on a Shaman would put me on the sofa.

How does the Shaman compare to the Manix XL? A friend has a XL and I find that too big for the office but I think my Manix works fine. At some point I really will have to get both, they seem great.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89067&p=1501539&hil ... n#p1501539 - in depth comparison of the two.

TLDR - Manix XL feels less blade heavy, has better geometry, there is better cutting leverage because there's less distance from the grip to cutting edge, it's cheaper, it's lighter and has more cutting edge.

Comparing the two the only advantage the Shaman has for my preferences is rounded scales, but I can give the Manix XL some decent contouring with sandpaper and 15 minutes of my time.

Theres only less distance from the grip to the cutting edge if you are not using the shamans choil grip. And the shaman has an amazing choil grip, you just dont like it.

Also to take the Manix XL down a peg or two. The ergos arent good unless you have giant hands. I have big hands and even I think the handle is overkill. The hook at the butt of the handle is annoying. Like all manixes the handle jimping is ridiculous. And the biggest offender is that the handle size makes operating the ball bearing lock difficult for many people.

[Evil D]

And the biggest offender is that the handle size makes opperating the ball bearing lock difficult for many people.

This is ultimately why I never bought the XL and stopped carrying the standard version, I don't like how you need to get leverage on the butt end of the handle to pull the lock back. Even with big hands I don't like how I have to hold the handle just right to get it unlocked and the XL made this worse for me.

[Woodpuppy]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.

All the fancy steels you’re listing were offered as sprints or dealer exclusives only. They typically sell out instantly, or at least within a day. Sprints are Spyderco short production runs which are never repeated; dealer exclusives may be reordered by the dealer but few are. The only “factory” offerings are s30v in PE, SE, and blackened versions.

The only current exclusive available is the BladeHQ DLC cpm-M4 micarta:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco- ... as--142027

It’s a popular model and I would think there would be more exclusives coming, especially in micarta. There have been calls for K390, I would expect something eventually in MagnaCut. But if you really want one now and are willing to deal with the maintenance of M4, get that BHQ exclusive before it sells out!

[WilliamMunny]

And the biggest offender is that the handle size makes opperating the ball bearing lock difficult for many people.

This is ultimately why I never bought the XL and stopped carrying the standard version, I don't like how you need to get leverage on the butt end of the handle to pull the lock back. Even with big hands I don't like how I have to hold the handle just right to get it unlocked and the XL made this worse for me.

I can see what you mean. I have no issue with the Manix, took a bit to get the feel of it. But the XL could be that much tougher one handed.

[TkoK83Spy]

If I were someone interested in a Shaman, and have yet to own one, I'd snatch that one from BladeHQ mentioned above. No brainer! Even when others come up in the future, this one will still be tough to beat.

[WilliamMunny]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.

All the fancy steels you’re listing were offered as sprints or dealer exclusives only. They typically sell out instantly, or at least within a day. Sprints are Spyderco short production runs which are never repeated; dealer exclusives may be reordered by the dealer but few are. The only “factory” offerings are s30v in PE, SE, and blackened versions.

The only current exclusive available is the BladeHQ DLC cpm-M4 micarta:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco- ... as--142027

It’s a popular model and I would think there would be more exclusives coming, especially in micarta. There have been calls for K390, I would expect something eventually in MagnaCut. But if you really want one now and are willing to deal with the maintenance of M4, get that BHQ exclusive before it sells out!

I would be pretty excited for a Shaman in K390. That’s basically a little more corrosion resistant M4?

[benben]

My middle ground.

[vivi]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89067&p=1501539&hil ... n#p1501539 - in depth comparison of the two.

TLDR - Manix XL feels less blade heavy, has better geometry, there is better cutting leverage because there's less distance from the grip to cutting edge, it's cheaper, it's lighter and has more cutting edge.

Comparing the two the only advantage the Shaman has for my preferences is rounded scales, but I can give the Manix XL some decent contouring with sandpaper and 15 minutes of my time.

Theres only less distance from the grip to the cutting edge if you are not using the shamans choil grip. And the shaman has an amazing choil grip, you just dont like it.

Not everyone uses the choil grip all the time. And the Manix XL's choil grip gets you just as close as the Shamans. So the advantage here still goes to the Manix.

I praised the Shamans choil grip, I like it just fine. It's the fact I use that grip less than 10% of the time I use my pocket knives that makes me not as concerned with the ergos of that grip. Gripping further back works better for me, otherwise I have to cut most materials closer to the tip because my thumb gets in the way.

Also to take the Manix XL down a peg or two. The ergos arent good unless you have giant hands. I have big hands and even I think the handle is overkill. The hook at the butt of the handle is annoying. Like all manixes the handle jimping is ridiculous. And the biggest offender is that the handle size makes operating the ball bearing lock difficult for many people.

My friend wears size M gloves and thinks the XL is the most ergonomic knife in my spydie collection.

The hook adds to grip security, which is a defining feature of the original manix and the 2 XL.

The handle jimping is over the top. That's why I ground it off my S30V XL. But it isn't a deal breaker, I left it on my DLC M4 XL to preserve the corrosion resistance of the liners. But that isn't a feature of all Manix's. Look up the C95

I'm not sure why anyone has trouble with CBBL's. Since the pkal debuted with the clear caged cbbl I've been closing them the same way. Pull back with my thumb and swing it shut.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KaLfcgqOP5I

As for DLC, it holds up fine. Here's a five year old Para 2 vs a new Millie.

[Woodpuppy]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.

All the fancy steels you’re listing were offered as sprints or dealer exclusives only. They typically sell out instantly, or at least within a day. Sprints are Spyderco short production runs which are never repeated; dealer exclusives may be reordered by the dealer but few are. The only “factory” offerings are s30v in PE, SE, and blackened versions.

The only current exclusive available is the BladeHQ DLC cpm-M4 micarta:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco- ... as--142027

It’s a popular model and I would think there would be more exclusives coming, especially in micarta. There have been calls for K390, I would expect something eventually in MagnaCut. But if you really want one now and are willing to deal with the maintenance of M4, get that BHQ exclusive before it sells out!

I would be pretty excited for a Shaman in K390. That’s basically a little more corrosion resistant M4?

K390 is a “cut above” M4. It patinas slowly where M4 flat out rusts and pits. K390 beats M4 in wear resistance. M4 may be a little tougher. M4 is easier to sharpen.

The dlc blade coating on the BHQ exclusive is one of the better and more relevant applications of a blade coating, IMO. The steel itself (M4) is really great as a user; excellent sharpening response for those of us who still use ceramics and cbn rods in the Sharpmaker; and excellent performance. It’s pretty tough and has good edge holding. I’d have to go hunt down the graphs again to compare it to other steels, but where it falls short against other steels in toughness or corrosion resistance it makes up in edge holding. Others may think M4 is passé at this point, and yes it has been surpassed, but like vg10 and s30v M4 is still an outstanding steel.

If you have the diamond and/or cbn rods you can maintain K390 on a Sharpmaker but it takes work. If you are an accomplished freehand sharpener and have the appropriate stones, K390 is probably easy-peasy to sharpen. It’s my hardest steel to sharpen, based on my equipment and skill level.

[Brock O Lee]

And the biggest offender is that the handle size makes opperating the ball bearing lock difficult for many people.

This is ultimately why I never bought the XL and stopped carrying the standard version, I don't like how you need to get leverage on the butt end of the handle to pull the lock back. Even with big hands I don't like how I have to hold the handle just right to get it unlocked and the XL made this worse for me.

You worded my unconscious gripe with the Manix perfectly.

[vivi]

I'm glad we see so much M4 from Spyderco. It's been in my top 3 carbon steels for ages. Very well balanced in terms of edge holding and ease of sharpness, with more toughness than I need in a folder.

[WilliamMunny]

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.

All the fancy steels you’re listing were offered as sprints or dealer exclusives only. They typically sell out instantly, or at least within a day. Sprints are Spyderco short production runs which are never repeated; dealer exclusives may be reordered by the dealer but few are. The only “factory” offerings are s30v in PE, SE, and blackened versions.

The only current exclusive available is the BladeHQ DLC cpm-M4 micarta:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco- ... as--142027

It’s a popular model and I would think there would be more exclusives coming, especially in micarta. There have been calls for K390, I would expect something eventually in MagnaCut. But if you really want one now and are willing to deal with the maintenance of M4, get that BHQ exclusive before it sells out!

I would be pretty excited for a Shaman in K390. That’s basically a little more corrosion resistant M4?

K390 is a “cut above” M4. It patinas slowly where M4 flat out rusts and pits. K390 beats M4 in wear resistance. M4 may be a little tougher. M4 is easier to sharpen.

The dlc blade coating on the BHQ exclusive is one of the better and more relevant applications of a blade coating, IMO. The steel itself (M4) is really great as a user; excellent sharpening response for those of us who still use ceramics and cbn rods in the Sharpmaker; and excellent performance. It’s pretty tough and has good edge holding. I’d have to go hunt down the graphs again to compare it to other steels, but where it falls short against other steels in toughness or corrosion resistance it makes up in edge holding. Others may think M4 is passé at this point, and yes it has been surpassed, but like vg10 and s30v M4 is still an outstanding steel.

If you have the diamond and/or cbn rods you can maintain K390 on a Sharpmaker but it takes work. If you are an accomplished freehand sharpener and have the appropriate stones, K390 is probably easy-peasy to sharpen. It’s my hardest steel to sharpen, based on my equipment and skill level.

I am generally a pretty big fan of tool steels. If feel like the Shaman just calls for a tough tool steel. The PM2 would be great in a S90V or even S110V, I do T think you would be splitting wood with it.

Right now I use a guided/free hand Work Sharp system for my knives. It uses diamond stones and has no issue cutting steels so far.

[anycal]

PM2 for me. I feel it is more appropriate more often than the Shaman, as an EDC. And both G10 Manix 2 and Shaman are a favorite of mine. Some pics for comparison,

Super helpful pictures. Length wise there really is not a ton of difference. How is the width on them when they are folded up? I am assuming the shaman carries the biggest/fattest and the PM2 carries the smallest?

Also how is the black coating standing up with moderate Year after year EDC use? I am a fan of tool steels like M4 but you always worry a bit about rust. I have never been a fan of the black coating out of fear that after a few years it would get totally scratched up and look like heck.

The Shaman is actually pretty compact for how thicc it is. It is heavier, but due to the smaller profile and rounded edges, it carries better for me than the Manix. PM2 is the least noticable in pocket and especially in waist band between all three.



The coating is not indestructible, but holds up very well. It resists scratching pretty well, but it will get scratched up.