Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

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vivi
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#21

Post by vivi »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:47 pm
ChrisinHove wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:37 pm
If you mean having one knife, and one knife only, I would go for the PM2, but having only one knife would be madness….
It’s more of the next knife. Plus there is always the wife factor..z spending $200 on a knife is one thing… spending $200 on a PM2 and $300 on a Shaman would put me on the sofa.

How does the Shaman compare to the Manix XL? A friend has a XL and I find that too big for the office but I think my Manix works fine. At some point I really will have to get both, they seem great.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89067&p=1501539&hil ... n#p1501539 - in depth comparison of the two.

TLDR - Manix XL feels less blade heavy, has better geometry, there is better cutting leverage because there's less distance from the grip to cutting edge, it's cheaper, it's lighter and has more cutting edge.

Comparing the two the only advantage the Shaman has for my preferences is rounded scales, but I can give the Manix XL some decent contouring with sandpaper and 15 minutes of my time.
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WilliamMunny
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#22

Post by WilliamMunny »

vivi wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:26 pm
WilliamMunny wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:47 pm
ChrisinHove wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:37 pm
If you mean having one knife, and one knife only, I would go for the PM2, but having only one knife would be madness….
It’s more of the next knife. Plus there is always the wife factor..z spending $200 on a knife is one thing… spending $200 on a PM2 and $300 on a Shaman would put me on the sofa.

How does the Shaman compare to the Manix XL? A friend has a XL and I find that too big for the office but I think my Manix works fine. At some point I really will have to get both, they seem great.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89067&p=1501539&hil ... n#p1501539 - in depth comparison of the two.

TLDR - Manix XL feels less blade heavy, has better geometry, there is better cutting leverage because there's less distance from the grip to cutting edge, it's cheaper, it's lighter and has more cutting edge.

Comparing the two the only advantage the Shaman has for my preferences is rounded scales, but I can give the Manix XL some decent contouring with sandpaper and 15 minutes of my time.
That was a great write up, thanks. Made me forget how cool the Manix XL is too.
Endura AUS-8, Manix 2 S30V, Alcyone BD1N, PM2 Micarta Cruwear, Native 5 Maxamet (2nd), Para 3 Maxamet (2nd), Magnacut Mule, Z-Wear Mule, BBB 15V Manix 2, REC PM3 10V Satin, Dragonfly Salt 2, GB2 M4.
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#23

Post by Woodpuppy »

They’re both really great knives. Sal is working on a no-choil Shaman, and I’m really interested in that. I like the Military very much.
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#24

Post by Cowboyfromhell »

I say get both. They are in my top 3 spydercos.....
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WilliamMunny
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#25

Post by WilliamMunny »

Woodpuppy wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:45 pm
They’re both really great knives. Sal is working on a no-choil Shaman, and I’m really interested in that. I like the Military very much.
A no choir Shaman sounds cool. I am mixed on Chili’s. On one hand they are great for control on the other you really eat up cutting edge on a knife. My Manix is a reasonable big knife but due to the choir it has a pretty small cutting edge.

Any word on when we might see it? Could be worth waiting for.
Endura AUS-8, Manix 2 S30V, Alcyone BD1N, PM2 Micarta Cruwear, Native 5 Maxamet (2nd), Para 3 Maxamet (2nd), Magnacut Mule, Z-Wear Mule, BBB 15V Manix 2, REC PM3 10V Satin, Dragonfly Salt 2, GB2 M4.
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#26

Post by Woodpuppy »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:00 pm
Woodpuppy wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:45 pm
They’re both really great knives. Sal is working on a no-choil Shaman, and I’m really interested in that. I like the Military very much.
A no choir Shaman sounds cool. I am mixed on Chili’s. On one hand they are great for control on the other you really eat up cutting edge on a knife. My Manix is a reasonable big knife but due to the choir it has a pretty small cutting edge.

Any word on when we might see it? Could be worth waiting for.
No ETA. But Sal’s musings are worth the wait. This thread has some references:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92943&hilit=Choil+less+shaman
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Brock O Lee
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#27

Post by Brock O Lee »

I remember now I had a few old pictures of the Manix vs Shaman (vs Tuff).

This will give a good indication of size, photos are directly from above:

Image

Image

Manix left vs Shaman
Image

Tuff (left) vs Shaman
Image

The Tuff is a notch or too more beefy than the Shaman. It's a beast.
Hans

Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
vivi
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#28

Post by vivi »

worth mentioning the Manix XL has the same stock thickness as the mini manix and a longer blade, so the taper towards the tip is a little different. It's got really nice geometry for such a beefy overall design.

Speaking of Shaman variants, I'm keeping a close eye on the XL and choil-less versions. The Shaman has a lot of good things going for it, and I feel like I might really enjoy one of the variants Sal has planned.
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Evil D
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#29

Post by Evil D »

Woodpuppy wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:45 pm
They’re both really great knives. Sal is working on a no-choil Shaman, and I’m really interested in that. I like the Military very much.

This has the potential to be the one knife to rule them all for me. It's easily my most anticipated design. When I first saw the prototype of the Shaman I immediately thought of a non choil version and I even sketched one out, I can't wait to see how close my sketch is to what Sal comes up with.
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Wartstein
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#30

Post by Wartstein »

To be clear: I have real experience only with the PM2 (and also extensively with several lightweight Manixes), but could just handle a Shaman once (did not actually ever cut anything with it).

That said:

- Since it sounds a bit as if this would become your only or at least main EDC knife:
In that case I´d go with the PM2.
As others have said: Lighter, takes up a bit less pocket space, should be slicier, probably has a more useful tip for typical folder EDC use. I like the PM2 ergos too, both behind the choil and choked up.

- If you go for two or more Spydie though, and one of those should either be the PM2 or the Shaman: Then I´d take the Shaman (additionally to something like and Endura, Stretch XL, or Manix LW).
Just from holding the Shaman I knew that one day I´ll have to own one. It feels really good with the rounded scales (even better ergos than the PM2), and I think it looks just so cool and "harmonious" - or not just looks but actually iS in my view, cause it combines the rather beefy blade (stock) with a very robust tip. So one could really make use of that in a way overbuilt blade (for a folder) in pretty much all tasks, cause one would not have to worry about the tip snapping.
I´d not carry it to often though, but certainly would love to use it in "harder" tasks.

- For me the ergos of both in really "hard", prolongued use suffer a tiny bit from the comp.lock cutout and the open back construction. Not a big deal though, cause tasks where one can really feel this are not typical EDC folder tasks anyway.
Still: A "Shaman" with a closed back and no comp.lock cutout, but still the contoured handle would be even better for me.
So in a way a backlock or CBBL Shaman... ;)

- One suggestion: For "just" about $ 50 more than the S30V Shaman costs you could get a S45 VN PM2 AND a Manix 2 LW in BD1N.
Since you obviously like the Manix platform, I bet there`d be a lot of days (in light shorts, iwb...) where you´d appreciate the light weight and easy carry of that model in its FRCP lightweight version (a bit more than half the weight of a Shaman).
And BD1N is such a nice steel! For me it "punches above its weight class". For how extremely easy and fun it is to sharpen even for a not master sharpener like I am, it holds an edge really well.
I even prefer the Manix LW over the G10. It (the LW) is not flimsy at all, and I figure the closed back could make for even slightly better ergos,

Hope you´ll keep us posted about your final decision and how you´ll like whatever model then!! :smlling-eyes
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Wartstein
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#31

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:21 am
Woodpuppy wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:45 pm
They’re both really great knives. Sal is working on a no-choil Shaman, and I’m really interested in that. I like the Military very much.

This has the potential to be the one knife to rule them all for me. It's easily my most anticipated design. When I first saw the prototype of the Shaman I immediately thought of a non choil version and I even sketched one out, I can't wait to see how close my sketch is to what Sal comes up with.

Yeah.. for me in a perfect world it would be a COMBO of the "racing version" (thinner blade, lighter) AND the no-choil version... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#32

Post by skeeg11 »

High hollow and no choil Shaman please.
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WilliamMunny
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#33

Post by WilliamMunny »

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:28 am
To be clear: I have real experience only with the PM2 (and also extensively with several lightweight Manixes), but could just handle a Shaman once (did not actually ever cut anything with it).

That said:

- Since it sounds a bit as if this would become your only or at least main EDC knife:
In that case I´d go with the PM2.
As others have said: Lighter, takes up a bit less pocket space, should be slicier, probably has a more useful tip for typical folder EDC use. I like the PM2 ergos too, both behind the choil and choked up.

- If you go for two or more Spydie though, and one of those should either be the PM2 or the Shaman: Then I´d take the Shaman (additionally to something like and Endura, Stretch XL, or Manix LW).
Just from holding the Shaman I knew that one day I´ll have to own one. It feels really good with the rounded scales (even better ergos than the PM2), and I think it looks just so cool and "harmonious" - or not just looks but actually iS in my view, cause it combines the rather beefy blade (stock) with a very robust tip. So one could really make use of that in a way overbuilt blade (for a folder) in pretty much all tasks, cause one would not have to worry about the tip snapping.
I´d not carry it to often though, but certainly would love to use it in "harder" tasks.

- For me the ergos of both in really "hard", prolongued use suffer a tiny bit from the comp.lock cutout and the open back construction. Not a big deal though, cause tasks where one can really feel this are not typical EDC folder tasks anyway.
Still: A "Shaman" with a closed back and no comp.lock cutout, but still the contoured handle would be even better for me.
So in a way a backlock or CBBL Shaman... ;)

- One suggestion: For "just" about $ 50 more than the S30V Shaman costs you could get a S45 VN PM2 AND a Manix 2 LW in BD1N.
Since you obviously like the Manix platform, I bet there`d be a lot of days (in light shorts, iwb...) where you´d appreciate the light weight and easy carry of that model in its FRCP lightweight version (a bit more than half the weight of a Shaman).
And BD1N is such a nice steel! For me it "punches above its weight class". For how extremely easy and fun it is to sharpen even for a not master sharpener like I am, it holds an edge really well.
I even prefer the Manix LW over the G10. It (the LW) is not flimsy at all, and I figure the closed back could make for even slightly better ergos,

Hope you´ll keep us posted about your final decision and how you´ll like whatever model then!! :smlling-eyes
I also really like BD1N. I got a Alcyone BD1N two months ago to fill that smaller, lightweight and cheap knife role. I have not used BD1N enough yet but it does hold an edge well, sharpens easy, no chipping and is very corrosion resistant. I know it’s not better than S30V but in some ways I like it better. I find S30V chips a bit too much and it really does not hold an edge that much longer. Right now my favorite steel is Z-Wear and MagnaCut right now.

Maybe we will see a Z-Wear or MagnaCut PM2 at some point.
Endura AUS-8, Manix 2 S30V, Alcyone BD1N, PM2 Micarta Cruwear, Native 5 Maxamet (2nd), Para 3 Maxamet (2nd), Magnacut Mule, Z-Wear Mule, BBB 15V Manix 2, REC PM3 10V Satin, Dragonfly Salt 2, GB2 M4.
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kennethsime
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#34

Post by kennethsime »

These are the two knives I pick 4 days out of 5. I’ve got two of each, and I’d be happy carrying one or the other ‘till the day I die, honestly.

I have struggled over the past year or so making sure that I eliminate variables:
- all of them have Micarta scales
- all of them have tool steel blades
- all of them have deep carry clips

Now that the knives are all on a level playing field, so to speak, I think I carry the Shaman more. Though the PM2 is lighter weight, the Shaman just has a little more “wow factor,” if that makes sense.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
metaphoricalsimile
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#35

Post by metaphoricalsimile »

apollo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
I think you just need a new Manix my friend!
It sounds that you love the model just like me and i can tell you can purchase what you want but you will mis it and in the end buy a new Manix to edc anyway!
I have 5 pm2’s and guess what they never see any use because for me there is no knife model in the world that comes close to the exquisite total package that the Manix is. :beaming-face
I like how the manix cuts and how it feels in the hand, but honestly it just never finds my pocket the way my para 3 lw or para 2 do; I think it just carries too big.
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#36

Post by James Y »

I don't own a Shaman, but I do own a couple of PM2s, and a G10 DLC Manix 2 in S30V. Although the PM2 is one of my favorite models, my Manix 2 ends up getting more carry time than any one of my other knives. Oftentimes, when I can't decide which knife I want to carry, the Manix 2 ends up in my pocket by default. I'm sure I would prefer it over the Shaman.

Speaking of my Manix 2, last night I resharpened it, and accidentally, very lightly, grazed the pad of my left index finger along part of the edge, as I was switching the knife from my left hand to my right hand, while examining the edge bevels in the light. Hadn't realized I'd cut myself, 'til the blood drops started oozing out of the small cut. It wasn't the first time my Manix 2 has bitten me (user error, of course).

🙂

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Wartstein
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#37

Post by Wartstein »

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:06 am
apollo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
...
I like how the manix cuts and how it feels in the hand, but honestly it just never finds my pocket the way my para 3 lw or para 2 do; I think it just carries too big.
It's funny how differently people feel about that "carries big" thing.

For me my Manix 2 LW is one of the best carries among my Spydies. Rather "short" in pocket (thank god it has no deep carry clip!!!), which I like a lot and the width is really not a thing (for me), cause the handle end of the Manix is imo shaped a lot better than on the PM2 concerning how easy (or not) is is to slide the hand by the knife.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Wartstein
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#38

Post by Wartstein »

James Y wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
.... Oftentimes, when I can't decide which knife I want to carry, the Manix 2 ends up in my pocket by default. ...
:grin-smiling-eyes ... same here with my Manix 2 LW.
Though admittedly, in my case the light weight (I would carry a G10 Manix far less), REX 45 (probably my favorite steel among those I've tried), and yes, also the burnt orange color play a big part in that, not so much or not only the platform itself
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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WilliamMunny
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#39

Post by WilliamMunny »

Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.
Endura AUS-8, Manix 2 S30V, Alcyone BD1N, PM2 Micarta Cruwear, Native 5 Maxamet (2nd), Para 3 Maxamet (2nd), Magnacut Mule, Z-Wear Mule, BBB 15V Manix 2, REC PM3 10V Satin, Dragonfly Salt 2, GB2 M4.
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Re: Paramilitary 2 vs Shaman

#40

Post by metaphoricalsimile »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:18 pm
Guys looking for buying advice on how to actually find Spyderco knives in stock. I mean if I wanted to buy the Shaman right now in something other than S30V it’s very hard to find. Spyderco has none online. I looked for the Cru-wear, z-wear and REX-45 versions with no luck. Does Spyderco make more or are all Shamans other than S30V sold out and only available second hand?

Is there an upcoming release of a new Shaman any time soon? Still not totally sold on it but it was disheartening to see almost nothing available. The cru-wear version seemed to sell for $208, pretty good price, but sold out everywhere.
Blade HQ has DLC M4 in stock with micarta scales, but it's even more than $208 so it might be more than you want to pay.
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