Military 2 Discussion (Merged)

[JRinFL]

I love how we are on to the next version before the first version has even shipped! We AFI's are a bit crazy.

[Evil D]

I love how we are on to the next version before the first version has even shipped! We AFI's are a bit crazy.

It's not really just a new knife, it's a new platform and I think for the real (crazy) AFI's that's where the true excitement comes from, not just the vanilla introduction version but all of the variations that are sure to come.

[CJF]

Any ETA on when these will ship to dealers?

[Mushroom]

Any ETA on when these will ship to dealers?

It is generally supposed to ship to dealers within 90 - 120 days after the Reveal is released. Though there have been a handful of knives and products that have far exceeded that estimation in the past.

[BeggarSo]

It has been an interesting time lately, SPY27 released, S45VN released and then the huge bomb dropped in the water CPM -Magnacut, Yikes I actually feel sorry for Spyderco fielding all these new steels so swiftly. That Being said....

I will commit to Buying at-least 1 Military2 IN CPM-Magnacut in both Plain Edge and SE, as well as a combo blade in this steel.

My experience with CPM -Magnacut in my Bark River Bravo 1 LT has sold me 100% on this steel as a grail steel. Just ordered the Native Salt in this steel cant wait to run it through the paces.

[wrdwrght]

https://youtu.be/oTGHXxmveY8

Here it is finally in slightly larger than average hands.

It was good to hear Eric further confirm both the Military Model and Military 2 will remain in the lineup together. Whether or not that will be permanent seems to be a little less definitive though.

“We’ll likely carry both simultaneously for a little while to see how that market reacts to it.” (Eric at 4:23 in that video)

He then adds that they’re “projecting [the Military 2] to be slightly less in price.” That is always welcome news.

The video that Ramonade posted has convinced me that the “refined” and already award-winning Military2—with a blade profile that is visibly NOT like the original—is actually a scaled up PM2 (recall that its normal size is actually Eric’s own refined alteration of Sal’s original PM).

I’m not complaining. Making the PM2, which I love, larger is just fine by me. If it ends up beating out the original in sales, let’s acknowledge that the Military Model will have had a helluva run. Late to love it, I have five, each in different steel. The secondary market will provide me with more, if ever I panic at not having enough.

I expect PM2 XL to succeed and arrive in different steels. To that end, I will be getting the S30V intro.

[wrdwrght]

.

[Evil D]

I was just looking at some pics of this knife and that "PM2 XL" thought just kept rolling around in my mind, and it occurred to me how awesome that may be (for me I mean) because I haven't carried a Para 2 for years because they're a little small for my hand, I'm basically stuck using them on the choil because the grip behind the choil is too short. This Military 2 is all but surely going to correct this for me, so I came to the realization that even if I hate it as a Military replacement, it does make sense as a better Para 2 for me.

I know that's a lot of mental gymnastics but I already have several awesome Military 1's, and I would still buy one in MagnaCut but I'm suddenly really looking forward to this knife now.

[ChrisinHove]

I think I might prefer the evolved handle shape of this new Para 3 XXL. You can’t deny the masterful liner lock of the Military, so I’m ambivalent on the lock overall.

[kennethsime]

I could be wrong, but it sure looks like they’re using the new wider compression lock tab from the Crucarta PM2.



If so, I’m super stoked. If David’s meaty paws are able to clearly access the lock even with a glove on, I think I’ll be a-ok.

[JRinFL]

I think this will sell very well. I don’t have a dog in this fight as I’m not really in the demographic for this knife, but I’ll have one to compare with my one old school Military. It seems like they kept most of what made the original great and added what the large PM2 market wants. This should be good for Spyderco’s sales numbers.

[Wartstein]

Well, concerning the question why the M2 is less expensive than the M1:
Eric answered this in the BHQ shot show vid (https://youtu.be/4EY3vGPdhOw , at about 04:10):
Along the lines that in the M1 production "old systems and outdated processes" are used, which raises the costs of the M1 compared to the M2 with its now more streamlined, more efficient (my interpretation, not Erics words!) production process.

He also said that while the M1 would remain in production he was not sure if it could "hold its punch on the market" [and remain in the lineup, my interpretation again].
Now honestly, for me this is not depending on fate, but probably largely on what Spyderco chooses to do about it: If they don t also streamline the production process for the M1, and lower its price by that too, and now that there is a knife named "Military 2" out there and that number alone already might suggest to a lot of customers that this had to be an improved version: I see black clouds coming for the M1....

[kennethsime]

I agree that the M1’s days are numbered. I’m not sure that Spyderco can streamline the production process for the M1 if they haven’t already, though. I bet that the knife’s fate will be determined by the sales volume of the as-is model, as compared to the sales volume of the new version.

[Wartstein]

I agree that the M1’s days are numbered. I’m not sure that Spyderco can streamline the production process for the M1 if they haven’t already, though. I bet that the knife’s fate will be determined by the sales volume of the as-is model, as compared to the sales volume of the new version.

I am actually pretty sure that they won't streamline the M1 production process - if they wanted to, they'd probably already have done it and perhaps bring out a more Millie-like (starting with a linerlock) and less pm2-ish M2 in the first place (perhaps "just" with the wider choil, tweaked ergos, four way clip).

I guess it would not make sense economically to invest a probably ton of money in adapting the M1 production process now that the M2 is coming, and I fully unterstand that of course, regardless what my personal preferences might be.

[cabfrank]

Let's all remember, as we mostly do, preferences aside, this is sure to be a great knife, and great new design. I know I'm eager to get my grubby mitts on one.

[cabfrank]

By the way, Gernot, I just read your last post. Mine wasn't directed at yours. I know you love the Military, but are also excited about this one.

[Evil D]

I don't see why the M1 couldn't be updated with a 4 way clip using screw helicoils like the other linerless G10 models use, it must come down to cost. The lock debate is a whole other issue that can't just be CQI'ed away, if the liner lock is not a selling point then it has to change. At some point you're investing money into an aging design and sales and cost may all be better off if you start fresh with an updated design. There's always a risk that this will backfire and there will always be those loyal to the original but we also have no idea what the M1 sales actually look like, it could well be a dead design for all we know, we forum enthusiasts are a very very small part of the total sales numbers. Even if every active member here voted to keep the M1 around, how many is that? 50 people? 100? That's not enough to keep any design in production.

You need repeat sales to drive profits, not guys like me who already own 5 of them. The only future the M1 has is through sprints and exclusives unless they do update the clip options which I think will help some but I also think liner locks are antiquated to the mainstream knife buying market. I think the same for back locks but we see Spyderco pushing development of the back lock and we see tons of new designs using it but we don't see liner locks coming out very often. I also think there's an association with the value models, when a casual buyer looks at the catalog and sees a Military and a Resilience side by side and sees similarly sized knives with the same lock and similar materials, they start to wonder why the Military costs what it does vs the Resilience. What they don't see is a Tenacious that shares a compression lock with the Para 2, and that separates the Para 2 into a premium category and I think that's where the Military 2 is headed.

[Dnwrghtsr]

I’m glad I finally got my Military 1 s110v. I would hate to see it discontinued.

[ladybug93]

i was confused by eric's comments in the bhq video about the m2 being cheaper to produce. how can that be possible? the m1 has been in production for a very long time and it should be easier to make a liner lock than a compression lock. and new designs tend to cost more because of new tooling and everything.

[Doc Dan]

I don't see why the M1 couldn't be updated with a 4 way clip using screw helicoils like the other linerless G10 models use, it must come down to cost. The lock debate is a whole other issue that can't just be CQI'ed away, if the liner lock is not a selling point then it has to change. At some point you're investing money into an aging design and sales and cost may all be better off if you start fresh with an updated design. There's always a risk that this will backfire and there will always be those loyal to the original but we also have no idea what the M1 sales actually look like, it could well be a dead design for all we know, we forum enthusiasts are a very very small part of the total sales numbers. Even if every active member here voted to keep the M1 around, how many is that? 50 people? 100? That's not enough to keep any design in production.

You need repeat sales to drive profits, not guys like me who already own 5 of them. The only future the M1 has is through sprints and exclusives unless they do update the clip options which I think will help some but I also think liner locks are antiquated to the mainstream knife buying market. I think the same for back locks but we see Spyderco pushing development of the back lock and we see tons of new designs using it but we don't see liner locks coming out very often. I also think there's an association with the value models, when a casual buyer looks at the catalog and sees a Military and a Resilience side by side and sees similarly sized knives with the same lock and similar materials, they start to wonder why the Military costs what it does vs the Resilience. What they don't see is a Tenacious that shares a compression lock with the Para 2, and that separates the Para 2 into a premium category and I think that's where the Military 2 is headed.

The liner lock is 200 years old or more and I think people are gravitating to more up to date locks. Cheap truck stop knives all have liner locks. They do indeed need repeat sales to drive profits and I think this update to the Military is a good idea. I said so in a thread a few years ago. If it is cheaper to make, then more so. We will see what the knife buying public thinks, but this looks like a positive move.