H-2 vs. H-1
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I believe CATRA is a slicing test of silicone abrasive card stock under a specific pressure/weight.
But looking at that particular chart I see comparisons of 800grit and 500grit. On the 50 inclusive 9000grit vs 800 vs 500grit. And while it does show the higher grit doing a little better, it doesn't show the extreme low grit.
But on the 20 inclusive with the 200 grit edge, which is most comparable to what we are using.... there is no other higher grit data to compare it to.
It is also worth noting that the 20 inclusive 200 grit edge has the highest score on that chart with over 1k cards cut. Though edge angle no doubt contributed to that.
CATRA is a very specific test against high abrasion material too. Real world performance may differ greatly. So far my experience has been similar to Vivi's but I'm only a month in to playing around with the coarse edge pac salt.
I've actually ordered a second Pac Salt I plan to mirror finish at .1 Micron and 12DPS for a more direct comparison.
I'd say to those curious about it. Buy a Pac Salt and slap a 200 grit 12DPS or 10DPS edge on it and see what all the fuss is about. I'm not giving up my polished edges, but I feel like I've gained another tool in the tool box with that edge finish.
But looking at that particular chart I see comparisons of 800grit and 500grit. On the 50 inclusive 9000grit vs 800 vs 500grit. And while it does show the higher grit doing a little better, it doesn't show the extreme low grit.
But on the 20 inclusive with the 200 grit edge, which is most comparable to what we are using.... there is no other higher grit data to compare it to.
It is also worth noting that the 20 inclusive 200 grit edge has the highest score on that chart with over 1k cards cut. Though edge angle no doubt contributed to that.
CATRA is a very specific test against high abrasion material too. Real world performance may differ greatly. So far my experience has been similar to Vivi's but I'm only a month in to playing around with the coarse edge pac salt.
I've actually ordered a second Pac Salt I plan to mirror finish at .1 Micron and 12DPS for a more direct comparison.
I'd say to those curious about it. Buy a Pac Salt and slap a 200 grit 12DPS or 10DPS edge on it and see what all the fuss is about. I'm not giving up my polished edges, but I feel like I've gained another tool in the tool box with that edge finish.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
thanks for the correction.metaphoricalsimile wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:40 pmIt's a slicing cut with significant pushing as well:
https://youtu.be/E40Y8MheAu0
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Yep. It's like having PE and SE instead of just PE knives. Can you get by with just PE polished edges? Probably. But coarse PE knives, or SE knives, make certain jobs a lot easier.ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:24 pmI believe CATRA is a slicing test of silicone abrasive card stock under a specific pressure/weight.
But looking at that particular chart I see comparisons of 800grit and 500grit. On the 50 inclusive 9000grit vs 800 vs 500grit. And while it does show the higher grit doing a little better, it doesn't show the extreme low grit.
But on the 20 inclusive with the 200 grit edge, which is most comparable to what we are using.... there is no other higher grit data to compare it to.
It is also worth noting that the 20 inclusive 200 grit edge has the highest score on that chart with over 1k cards cut. Though edge angle no doubt contributed to that.
CATRA is a very specific test against high abrasion material too. Real world performance may differ greatly. So far my experience has been similar to Vivi's but I'm only a month in to playing around with the coarse edge pac salt.
I've actually ordered a second Pac Salt I plan to mirror finish at .1 Micron and 12DPS for a more direct comparison.
I'd say to those curious about it. Buy a Pac Salt and slap a 200 grit 12DPS or 10DPS edge on it and see what all the fuss is about. I'm not giving up my polished edges, but I feel like I've gained another tool in the tool box with that edge finish.
Do you plan to try any controlled testing with the two Pacific Salts? I might try to run a test like that. Two of the PE H1 Pacifics reprofiled to a similar angle, one at 200 grit and the other at a full polish. Then see how many times they can each slice poly rope.
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I might try something scientific. Rope or cardboard cutting maybe. Though my efforts are hampered a little by not being able to accurately BESS test the coarse edge.vivi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:48 pm......
Do you plan to try any controlled testing with the two Pacific Salts? I might try to run a test like that. Two of the PE H1 Pacifics reprofiled to a similar angle, one at 200 grit and the other at a full polish. Then see how many times they can each slice poly rope.
I'm more interested in seeing how they compare head to head in my edc tasks like cutting thin plastic and cardboard. See how they do over the course of a few weeks. I don't know how interesting the forum will find that, being so subjective, but I'm interested to see how they 'feel' in use.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
- Spicy Suplex
- Member
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:14 am
- Location: SoCal
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Who says we weren't aware?
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
This thread got off topic in the best of ways.
I hope Sal chimes in. I think this was a no choice kinda move. I think the fact that there will be an H2 and not just an absence of H1 is a testament to Sal's dedication to this class of corrosion resistant steel.
I don't have any H1 but want a HG Pac Salt. I may just wait for H2. It is good to keep in mind these are super steels. Not top in class for edge retention, but in corrosion resistance and toughness they are in a league of their own.
I hope Sal chimes in. I think this was a no choice kinda move. I think the fact that there will be an H2 and not just an absence of H1 is a testament to Sal's dedication to this class of corrosion resistant steel.
I don't have any H1 but want a HG Pac Salt. I may just wait for H2. It is good to keep in mind these are super steels. Not top in class for edge retention, but in corrosion resistance and toughness they are in a league of their own.
- Jeff
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I had to hold off from replying to vivi earlier but...
Fluffing and edging do go hand in hand!
Fluffing and edging do go hand in hand!
So it goes.
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Airlsee, that's awefull but hilarious.
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
the first rule of fluffer club
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Scandi Grind wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 6:57 pmI may start a run on H1 knives by posting this, but it is my calculation that if H1 isn't going to be produced anymore, that any knife made of H1 is going to have huge collector value down the road. I mean, essentially once they run out of the steel, it Will. Not. Exist!!! On any future knives anyway. At that point H1 kinda becomes gold. Seems like just a good investment.
If H2 is a reasonably close H1 equivalent, then I only see hardcore completionist collectors and/or people who absolutely rely on corrosion-proof knives for their livelihoods as buyers of H1 Salts at elevated prices.
In short, I think we'll all get over this in time, just like we did when the N5 went from S35VN back to S30V.
-David
still more knives than sharpening stones...
still more knives than sharpening stones...
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I highly doubt that H1 will ever have much if any collector value. Knives made of H1 have been made for nearly two decades now, and there’s LOTS of them out there. For the most part, knives are not a great investment, if one is planning on becoming financially secure by selling them off in the future.
And what if H2 actually turns out to be BETTER than H1?
Jim
And what if H2 actually turns out to be BETTER than H1?
Jim
Last edited by James Y on Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- cabfrank
- Member
- Posts: 2871
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 9:07 pm
- Location: Northern California, USA, Earth
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Also possible is that H2 will be "better", or preferred in the community. I'm not assuming that, but if it happens, H1 knives wouldn't appreciate in value.
-
- Member
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:37 pm
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
True enough points. I guess the only people that might be willing to pay much more are collectors who value it, or if H2 is significantly worse performance than H1, which I am doubting.
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man."
-- Old Norse proverb
-- Old Norse proverb
- cabfrank
- Member
- Posts: 2871
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 9:07 pm
- Location: Northern California, USA, Earth
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I'm not betting it will perform significantly better either though. I am just hoping it isn't much different, performance wise. We'll see. Being honest, if the differences are just marginal, very few people would actually notice.
- spoonrobot
- Member
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:37 am
- Location: Rome, Georgia USA
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
I think there's probably going to be some interest for mint examples, like there was for a little while after the PE Atlantic Salt was discontinued. But otherwise, definitely agree, H1 knives will be like the E3/D3 and older Rescues. Sometimes sell for surprising amounts but not close or a premium over new production H2 models.James Y wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:07 pmI highly doubt that H1 will ever have much if any collector value. Knives made of H1 have been made for nearly two decades now, and there’s LOTS of them out there. For the most part, knives are not a great investment, if one is planning on becoming financially secure by selling them off in the future.
And what if H2 actually turns out to be BETTER than H1?
Jim
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Ok I gave it a try on my ladybug as best I could. I don't think I quite got to 10 dps. Cut the crap out of my thumb in the process, too. You can also see I didn't quite do so well on the heel or tip. Amateur sharpener here.vivi wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:49 pmviewtopic.php?t=90089 - pacific salt thread
viewtopic.php?t=85096 - low grit sharpening thread
tldr - 10dps 300 grit edge cuts at least 4x longer than a factory edge when slicing rope and cardboard.
Let's see how it goes!
- Manixguy@1994
- Member
- Posts: 12560
- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:12 pm
- Location: Central Illinois
- Contact:
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
Agree with you Jeff and I also look forward to Sal chiming in for a run down on H2 steel . I look at it like this , if Spyderco went to the trouble to come up with another steel of this type I will not regret giving H2 an honest try . DanJSumm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:09 pmThis thread got off topic in the best of ways.
I hope Sal chimes in. I think this was a no choice kinda move. I think the fact that there will be an H2 and not just an absence of H1 is a testament to Sal's dedication to this class of corrosion resistant steel.
I don't have any H1 but want a HG Pac Salt. I may just wait for H2. It is good to keep in mind these are super steels. Not top in class for edge retention, but in corrosion resistance and toughness they are in a league of their own.
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Re: H-2 vs. H-1
warms my heart rightfully seeing someone call H1 a super steel.
Hey I've done much worse than that! Bet that'll chew up cardboard now.sethwm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:13 amOk I gave it a try on my ladybug as best I could. I don't think I quite got to 10 dps. Cut the crap out of my thumb in the process, too. You can also see I didn't quite do so well on the heel or tip. Amateur sharpener here.vivi wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:49 pmviewtopic.php?t=90089 - pacific salt thread
viewtopic.php?t=85096 - low grit sharpening thread
tldr - 10dps 300 grit edge cuts at least 4x longer than a factory edge when slicing rope and cardboard.
Let's see how it goes!