Corrosion Reports

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vivi
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#21

Post by vivi »

My K390 Police had a blade that resisted corrosion well. But the liners, not so much.

vivi wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:10 am
The weather is beginning to cool off so I thought I'd get my Police 4 ready to go back into rotation.

I stopped carrying it months ago because I noticed the liners corroding.

Here's what it looks like prior to being cleaned up:

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The knife was carried fall 2018 to spring 2019.

I'm glad a stainless Police 4 is right around the corner.


Full thread - viewtopic.php?p=1360015

Thanks for the contributions everyone. It's been fun watching this thread grow.
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Soanso McMasters
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#22

Post by Soanso McMasters »

vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:52 am
My K390 Police had a blade that resisted corrosion well. But the liners, not so much.

vivi wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:10 am
The weather is beginning to cool off so I thought I'd get my Police 4 ready to go back into rotation.

I stopped carrying it months ago because I noticed the liners corroding.

Here's what it looks like prior to being cleaned up:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The knife was carried fall 2018 to spring 2019.

I'm glad a stainless Police 4 is right around the corner.


Full thread - viewtopic.php?p=1360015

Thanks for the contributions everyone. It's been fun watching this thread grow.
What method of carry/conditions created so much corrosion on the liners?
vivi
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#23

Post by vivi »

It's carrying it in hot conditions and sweat seeping in the gaps between liners, backspacers etc.

Oiling and wiping down a blade frequently is easy. Cleaning out liners on the go is tougher.
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vivi
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#24

Post by vivi »

SE Zcut.

I've used it in many kitchens over the years.

In my current role it's used primarily for butterflying steaks and opening pre-packaged meats, like our 14oz dry aged strip steak.

It spends 10-14 hours a day, five days a week, covered in blood, salt, etc.

Image

BD1N has me impressed. Bring on the Chief LW!
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JRinFL
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#25

Post by JRinFL »

By Zcut is living an easier life, but gets more corrosion. Light kitchen duty only for mine.
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James Y
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#26

Post by James Y »

vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:51 pm
It's carrying it in hot conditions and sweat seeping in the gaps between liners, backspacers etc.

Oiling and wiping down a blade frequently is easy. Cleaning out liners on the go is tougher.

Agreed 100%. I wish the liners, backsprings, screws, and all other hardware were always specially treated to be even more corrosion-resistant.

Jim
metaphoricalsimile
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#27

Post by metaphoricalsimile »

James Y wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:17 pm

Agreed 100%. I wish the liners, backsprings, screws, and all other hardware were always specially treated to be even more corrosion-resistant.

Jim
I wonder if disassembling the knife and wiping down the liners and hardware with a silicone cloth every once in a while would help. Either that or something like a very thin layer of frog lube.
vivi
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#28

Post by vivi »

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:23 pm
James Y wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:17 pm

Agreed 100%. I wish the liners, backsprings, screws, and all other hardware were always specially treated to be even more corrosion-resistant.

Jim
I wonder if disassembling the knife and wiping down the liners and hardware with a silicone cloth every once in a while would help. Either that or something like a very thin layer of frog lube.
I think that would help. For me it's easier to just carry salts. the trade-offs of higher edge retention steels in rustable frames isn't worth it for my uses.
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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#29

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

While prepping a new battery for my motorcycle last year, discovered LC200N reacts to sulfuric acid. H1 does not.

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Can't find the pic right now, but I can spot rust uncoated VG10 in a sweaty pocket after an hour or two.
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The Mastiff
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#30

Post by The Mastiff »

I wonder if disassembling the knife and wiping down the liners and hardware with a silicone cloth every once in a while would help. Either that or something like a very thin layer of frog lube.
Yes it does help IME. I don't take my knives down. I do use silicone gun cloths or Tuff Glide cloths to wipe down the insides. One thing I've found important is getting all the dust out of there before it can cause corrosion to begin. This holds especially true for dust from sharpening. Steel dust is all surface area and it corrodes super quickly which then causes the steel blades and liners to corrode. Even very corrosive resistant steels.

If you scrub the blade with comet or bar keepers friend or similar you need to do much more than rinse it off. Scrubbing it off while washing with soap and water followed by a reapplication of silicone/tuff glide or waxing of the blade keeps mine looking pretty new. I have never taken mine apart yet mine don't show any rust in the scale areas I can see. I carry knives all day and have always sweated heavily especially in the super humid near hundred degree days here in July and August yet none of my knives has come close to looking like Vivi's. Not even the old 1095 Imperial and Schrade slippies I have carried since I was a kid and still do on occasion hidden in a pocket for use around other people that I don't want to alarm in public.
Soanso McMasters
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#31

Post by Soanso McMasters »

vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:51 pm
It's carrying it in hot conditions and sweat seeping in the gaps between liners, backspacers etc.

Oiling and wiping down a blade frequently is easy. Cleaning out liners on the go is tougher.
I wish more salt knives had finger choils. Still waiting on my Native 5 Magnacut preorder!
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Wartstein
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#32

Post by Wartstein »

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:48 pm
...
Can't find the pic right now, but I can spot rust uncoated VG10 in a sweaty pocket after an hour or two.

Like I always say to Vivi too: This is almost unbelievable to me (not like in "I don't believe you" of course!! ;) )

In my use VG10 just can't rust even in the slightest. Even if carried iwb, next to the skin, on day long sweaty hikes or trailruns.
Not on multi day hikes in "sweaty pockets" or soaken wet packs without ever whiping off the blade. Not when cutting lemons, tomatoes, meat... and leaving the blade covered in the juices till the next day.

Actually it's pretty much the same with S30V.

No idea why experiences concerning corrosion resistance vary so widely...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Bill1170
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#33

Post by Bill1170 »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:56 pm
PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:48 pm
...
Can't find the pic right now, but I can spot rust uncoated VG10 in a sweaty pocket after an hour or two.

Like I always say to Vivi too: This is almost unbelievable to me (not like in "I don't believe you" of course!! ;) )

In my use VG10 just can't rust even in the slightest. Even if carried iwb, next to the skin, on day long sweaty hikes or trailruns.
Not on multi day hikes in "sweaty pockets" or soaken wet packs without ever whiping off the blade. Not when cutting lemons, tomatoes, meat... and leaving the blade covered in the juices till the next day.

Actually it's pretty much the same with S30V.

No idea why experiences concerning corrosion resistance vary so widely...
I think it comes down to the fact that there are huge individual variations in human body chemistry. I can wear VG-10 near my sweaty body with no ill effects to the metal. Others like Vivi have sweat that is corrosive to VG-10. We’re both modern humans, but chemically we come from different planets!
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Wartstein
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#34

Post by Wartstein »

Bill1170 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:22 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:56 pm
PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:48 pm
I think it comes down to the fact that there are huge individual variations in human body chemistry. I can wear VG-10 near my sweaty body with no ill effects to the metal. Others like Vivi have sweat that is corrosive to VG-10. We’re both modern humans, but chemically we come from different planets!

Certainly true, but what puzzles me endlessly: My knives don´t corrode even in scenarios where body chemistry does not play a role at all... and not even the general climate one lives in.

As said: When I cut food (lemons, tomatoes, meat, all kinds of stuff) with VG10 or s30V Spydies and leave the blades totally covered in the juices even for more than 24 hours: STILL no corrosion.
Only thing I could think of in this context: Perhaps It plays a role how the juices on the blade react with the general surrounding climate? How much or not the corrosive effects of those juices are enhanced by the climate?
In Austria, where I live, it rains and snows pretty often for example, but we are not close to any ocean. So most likely an a bit more "humid", but not "salty" general climate.

BUT: I can´t imagine that the "climate" INSIDE an Austrian kitchen is very much different to the climate in most US
kitchens...

Remains a mystery to me.

To get more on topic ("corrosion reports") I´ll try to post pics later of the only two Spydies I managed to "corrode" at least slightly, though it took a lot!: My REX 45 Manix LW and my XHP Chap. Actually hard to capture on pics, since it is just so subtle.
EDIT: Just looked at my Chap and I can´t even find that a bit darker spot on the blade anymore... despite I carry this XHP knife iwb frequently when running and almost never whipe off the sweat covered blade afterwards... :thinking
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#35

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:56 pm
No idea why experiences concerning corrosion resistance vary so widely...

Yeah, I'd like to understand it. It's strange how we can have such different experiences.
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Wartstein
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#36

Post by Wartstein »

As promised earlier, here is all I can contribute to "corrosion reports".

None of my VG10, S3oV, S35VN, XHP and so on is showing signs of corrosion despite being used for cutting various kinds of fruits,vegetables and other food, carried iwb and in sweaty pockets or soaken wet packs sometimes over days, used in snow, rain, mud and so on...

Only my REX 45 Manix 2 LW does (show "corrosion").
- This is not easy to see most of the times, but I tried to take a pic from a perfect "corrosion exposing" angle and lighting, and enhanced the contrast a bit so the patina and spots do show.
- The second pic is of the same blade, just randomly photographed.

Now would did it take to get to that level of corrosion and patina on REX 45?
Here are some very rough estimations concerning that:

The Manix was:

- Carried at least 20 times iwb next to the skin when running, often for hours
- carried at least 50 times in more or less sweaty pockets (for a whole day)
- Used at least 10 times each for cutting lemons, tomatoes, apples, hot meat, cold meat... often leaving the blade covered in the juices till the next day
-.Used at least 30 times in rain or snow
- at least two times exposed to snow that was treated with road salt
- and many more tasks

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Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Soanso McMasters
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#37

Post by Soanso McMasters »

Had you done any pre-treatment with oil application?
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Bloke
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#38

Post by Bloke »

It can get pretty hot, wet and muggy here. Today it’s 24degC or 75degF, it’s raining and humidity is at 93%. We live about a kilometre from the coast so the potential for metallic corrosion is fairly high.

The only times I’ve had knives corrode is through neglect. I’d never go for a swim with a knife or have one in my pocket going for a run or something so I can’t comment on that. I don’t as a rule use pocket knives for food prep or the like so can’t comment on that either.

I tune all my screwed assembly knives before use and don’t subscribe to the “open and close it 10,000 times and it will break in” mentality. I use Eezox to coat liners etc. synthetic high temperature and high pressure grease on pivots and have no issues with corrosion.

This isn’t corrosion per se but I did manage to pit my Tasman HB that I use to clean fish that I generally only wash it in saltwater. The last thing I do is scrape out the liver on either side of fish backbones and that particular time a bit of liver or a blood clot must have stuck to the blade and I obviously didn’t notice, just sloshed the knife in the surf, closed it, wrapped it and a scaler in a tea towel and chucked it in my fishing bag as always.

Weather and circumstances meant I didn’t fish in a few months and when I did have a look before I did eventually go for a fish, this is what I found.

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You can see here, the bit of fish liver or blood clot or whatever it was ended up between blade and inside of scales.

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Looking at it through a loupe and not great photos but you can see fairly deep pitting. :woozy

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Wartstein
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#39

Post by Wartstein »

Soanso McMasters wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:04 pm
Had you done any pre-treatment with oil application?

No, never, rather the opposite:

I like patinas on tool steel blades, and so I actually use the REX 45 Manix deliberately more often for food prep and in humid environments than I would otherwise, as an attempt to give the blade a patina (I want it to still develope "naturally" and not actually force it "artificially" though) - for the same reason I do not clean / whipe off the blade immediately but often only after hours of exposure to the residues of whatever got cut.

Really, I don't know why my Spydies don't corrode at all or just very subtly. It is what it is.

To be clear: "I" CAN corrode tool steel blades generally. Here is an O1 blade (not a Spydie!) I use a lot for food prep and don't take care of at all. Heavy patina, as you can see... but not too much actual rust, since that patina already acts as a protection. (Edit: This blade was shiny when new, no stone wash or the like)

Image
Last edited by Wartstein on Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Bloke
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Re: Corrosion Reports

#40

Post by Bloke »

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:28 am
Heavy patina, as you can see... but not too much actual rust
Image
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin
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