Any more true MBC knives in the pipeline

[Naperville]

I cannot answer the "why" question. It seems like Justice and law and order in the USA is selective?

Illegal immigration? Dishonest politicians? Open crime and theft by many? Public use of illegal drugs? Daily murders in Chicago? Riots left to run free? Corruption?

Spyderco always tries to do the right things for the right reasons, We followed Federal law when we imported Butterfly parts, processed them and assembled them in the US. The leader in the "raid" said; "You can fight us if you want, but we are the Government. We have a lot of money. If you lose, there is a mandatory 5 year imprisonment in a Federal penitentiary for you". "Big Brother" may be a bastard, but Big Brother is Big!

Maybe someone in a position of power didn't like us? I think the locals knew what was going on. The raid never made the local newspapers or TV news. We make autos and butterfly's in the US and sell them according to federal law, even though I can purchase an auto from another company, ship it to me across state lines (illegal) with no issues.

Maybe you can answer the "why"?

sal

I really feel for you Sal. As I pointed to in Off Topic, and now you point out, Justice and Law and Order in the USA is very selective. You have much deeper pockets than me yet there is no end to the abuses of some of the agents and courts that prosecute!

It is a great country. I know that. But the damage has been done yet we must carry on.

I'll say this. I've been messed with and lied to by a court appointed defender, agents of the FBI, corporations and the courts. It sure makes me wonder if I swallowed a ton of propaganda to get where I was, from where I now sit. But at least I know how things really work.

[ZrowsN1s]

Not to wade too far into the politics of it, more into the common sense of it. I don't know 'why' you were targeted. I just know that the laws around balisongs and autos are outdated and don't make any sense in todays knife world.

The Spyderco Thumb Hole and the Emerson Wave in particular make arguments about Autos being 'more dangerous' than a normal knife because they can be opened quickly moot. Balisong laws were targeted at ethnic gangs, also very very out dated laws and thinking.

The fear is though if some of these 'lawmakers' realized how outdated and backwards the laws are, their solution might very well be to ban more knives rather than lift restrictions. Maybe we benefit from their ignorance more than we know.

[James Y]

A lot of the fear of balisongs came about because of the proliferation of them being used by criminals in movies in the 1980s. The first balisong knife I ever saw was in the 1980 movie The Big Brawl, which was Jackie Chan's first American film. Then in 1982, Dan Inosanto tortured Burt Reynolds with one in Sharkey's Machine.

In much the same way that switchblades were outlawed in the late 1950s, because they were highlighted by several Hollywood movies about juvenile delinquency at the time...Blackboard Jungle, Rebel Without a Cause, 12 Angry Men, etc., etc.

The lawmakers had to make it look like they were doing something useful. Even though once opened, balisongs and automatics are no more special or deadly than any other knife.

I kinda went OT there...

Jim

[sal]

Lawmakers...................the nuns running the whorehouse.

Sorry to go off topic.

sal

[skeeg11]

Lawmakers...................the nuns running the whorehouse.

Sorry to go off topic.

sal

Gives us a little more insight to your thoughts and actually appreciated.

[Jim Malone]

So....MBC knives..... Also really looking forward for the Lil Temperance 4 in FRN. Are there any changes made to the design or is it just a "budget" version of the G10 handled version.

[cabfrank]

Lawmakers...................the nuns running the whorehouse.

Sorry to go off topic.

sal

Rings true on too many levels.

[Josh Crutchley]

We probably wouldn't make a double edged model, especially if it has to be imported. Illegal.

How do companies like Boker and Steel Will get away with it? I have many double-edged daggers that were produced in other countries, marketed and distributed by major manufacturers, and sold in the open by reputable USA dealers.

I image it has to do with them being legal in some states. In MI, where I live, it's legal to own a double edge dagger but illegal to carry in public. In TX they're legal to own and carry. Autos are also legal in MI but when I bought one at a local dealer, it didn't come with the spring. Not sure about importation laws and how they apply.
The very inconsistent laws in the US are the source of many issues. Sal's choice makes sense as he knows there's risks even if your within the "law".

[Polecat]

Just some random thoughts:

I like the FRN handle on the ARK

Prefer a wharncliff profiled like a Ronin

Temperence but a smidge smaller

Trim down the sheaths maybe taco style with small loops or utiliclip, current ones are bulky and clunky

Dave

[ZrowsN1s]

Sorry to continue to stray off topic but I wanted to share my states take on what a 'Dagger' is.

'California Penal Code 16470 PC defines “dirk” or “dagger” as a “knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death.” '.

It's a fancy way of saying any fixed blade knife, pointy object, or folder when open (slipjoints are even specifically mentioned), are considered 'Daggers'. They don't care how many edges are on it, they're more concerned with the pointy end.

........
Ok back to MBC knives.

[Wartstein]

A lot of the fear of balisongs came about because of the proliferation of them being used by criminals in movies in the 1980s. The first balisong knife I ever saw was in the 1980 movie The Big Brawl, which was Jackie Chan's first American film. Then in 1982, Dan Inosanto tortured Burt Reynolds with one in Sharkey's Machine.
.....
The lawmakers had to make it look like they were doing something useful. Even though once opened, balisongs and automatics are no more special or deadly than any other knife.

...

Jim, the "funny" (actually sad...) thing is: Even if one knows what they are doing, imo a Balisong is slower to open than a knife with thumb studs or opening hole.

I am not a pro or anything, but play a bit with Balisongs and can do some "tricks"/moves well enough. Actually, for a reliable opening I normally do two motions (as opposed to just one with lets say a Spyderco) after drawing the knife, which takes more time. I can do open a Balisong with just one move, but this is pretty awkward and the Balisong is not as safe in hand.

And yes, a Balisong is not more deadly when opened then other knives - perhaps by design often more optimized for stabbing, but on the flipside a worse cutter - and, it does not even actually lock, technically, unless one engages that lever at the handle end.

/ And very true what you say about lawmakers. And my prime and often repeated example is the situation in Austria (where I live) with practically no limiting knife laws, and Germany, our neighbour country, with very strict knife laws.
We do share a very similar cultural background, and even the same language - but despite their very strict knife laws, Germany has not less (or more) knife crimes than we in Austria (where we can carry whatever we choose..)....

[yablanowitz]

Maybe in the far distant future, people will realize that they are the problem, not the objects they use.

[Naperville]

Maybe in the far distant future, people will realize that they are the problem, not the objects they use.

People carry knives certainly aren't the issue. I was carrying a sub 2 inch blade and drew it to my hip so that 4 to 5 guys would stop kicking me, grabbing and throwing punches at me.

What we must realize is that knives are 2nd Amendment weapons in the USA and they deserve the same positive affirmation by society that firearms get. AND, overall, we need to take back our rights. The Bill of Rights is for the people. Carrying a knife should not be negative. Using a knife to stop a crime should not be negative.

[JRinFL]

^ Agreed.

[spydergoat]

Because of the laws where I'm at, my MBC wish lists are focused on folders. A PM2 trainer seems like a guaranteed hit. A new steel for the Endura or Endela wharnie would get my attention. Or pacific salt wharnie.

[spydergoat]

Spyderco does already manufacture knives that you can not possess or carry in most states, like the Autonomy.

The Autonomy and other full size automatics are currently legal to open carry in 36 states, soon to be 37.

Open carry an automatic knife I'll pass but that is interesting.

[James Y]

I know it's not a new design, but I'd like to see the Yojimbo 2 with a Magnacut blade, and specially-treated hardware for enhanced corrosion resistance for the liners, screws, stop pins, spacers, etc. And maybe the MC steel can add a little toughness, especially for the extremely fine tip. Although I'm well aware that a fine tip is still a fine tip.

Even though I'm on a hiatus from new knife purchases, there are still some Spydies I'd like to have one day, the Yo 2 being one of them.

Jim

[ZrowsN1s]

I'd like to see a Yo2 with a tip 3 or 4 times thicker than the current version.

[Michael Janich]

Hey, All:

Thanks for a fascinating discussion about one of my favorite topics.

With regard to a Z-Cut-style defensive knife, the Bastinelli Mako design--and many of his other designs--already comes very close: https://www.tacticalelements.com/bastin ... ixed-mako/.

As an avid knife and switchblade collector, I have done extensive research on U.S. federal law. According to AKTI, "The Federal Switchblade Act – is the only federal knife law other than laws about knives in federal facilities. The 2009 Amendment clarified assisted-opening knives are not illegal switchblades."

The Federal Switchblade Act was created to prohibit interstate commerce of switchblades, but was later interpreted by U.S. customs to also apply to the importation of switchblades. Later still, customs interpreted balisongs as falling under the descriptive guidelines of the law and applied it to them as well. The forces that motivated those customs decisions are one of the knife industry's dirty little secrets...

The U.S. Customs regulation that defines the categories of knives that cannot be legally imported is 19 CFR § 12.96. It reads:

Imports unrestricted under the Act.

(a) Common and special purpose knives. Imported knives with a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use, as defined in § 12.95(c), shall be admitted to unrestricted entry provided that in condition as entered the imported knife is not a switchblade knife as defined in § 12.95(a)(1). Among admissible common and special purpose knives are jackknives and similar standard pocketknives, special purpose knives, scout knives, and other knives equipped with one or more blades of such single edge nonweapon styles as clip, skinner, pruner, sheep foot, spey, coping, razor, pen, and cuticle.

(b) Weapons with fixed blades. Importations of certain articles having a fixed unexposed or exposed blade are not within the prohibition of 15 U.S.C. 1241 through 1245. However, upon release by Customs, possession of these admissible articles which include such weapons as sword canes, camel whips, swords, sheath knives, machetes and similar devices that may be capable of use as weapons may be in violation of State or municipal laws.

[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]


There is no federal law that prohibits the importation of double-edged knives. When I worked for BlackHawk, I designed the UK-SFK--the issue dagger for the British SAS. It and several other double-edged knives we produced were produced in Taiwan and legally imported into the U.S. in full compliance with all applicable customs regulations (paragraph b above). Many other knife companies, including Boker and Cold Steel, legally import double-edged knives in exactly the same way.

With all that said, the actual consumer market for double-edged knives is much more limited than the market for single-edged knives. The reason is that the carry--and sometimes mere possession--of double-edged knives, dirks, daggers, etc. is prohibited by many state and/or municipal laws. This fact is mentioned in the Customs regulation quoted above. Although compliance with applicable laws is always the responsibility of the consumer, since the market space is more limited, the commercial potential is also more limited. For that reason, producing double-edged knives isn't always a wise or profitable business decision.

So what about all the new-production foreign-made switchblades and balisongs that are being openly sold on the Internet and through dealers? They are being imported in violation of the Customs regulation. It's that simple.

Stay safe,

Mike

[twinboysdad]

Hey, All:

Thanks for a fascinating discussion about one of my favorite topics.

With regard to a Z-Cut-style defensive knife, the Bastinelli Mako design--and many of his other designs--already comes very close: https://www.tacticalelements.com/bastin ... ixed-mako/.

As an avid knife and switchblade collector, I have done extensive research on U.S. federal law. According to AKTI, "The Federal Switchblade Act – is the only federal knife law other than laws about knives in federal facilities. The 2009 Amendment clarified assisted-opening knives are not illegal switchblades."

The Federal Switchblade Act was created to prohibit interstate commerce of switchblades, but was later interpreted by U.S. customs to also apply to the importation of switchblades. Later still, customs interpreted balisongs as falling under the descriptive guidelines of the law and applied it to them as well. The forces that motivated those customs decisions are one of the knife industry's dirty little secrets...

The U.S. Customs regulation that defines the categories of knives that cannot be legally imported is 19 CFR § 12.96. It reads:

Imports unrestricted under the Act.

(a) Common and special purpose knives. Imported knives with a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use, as defined in § 12.95(c), shall be admitted to unrestricted entry provided that in condition as entered the imported knife is not a switchblade knife as defined in § 12.95(a)(1). Among admissible common and special purpose knives are jackknives and similar standard pocketknives, special purpose knives, scout knives, and other knives equipped with one or more blades of such single edge nonweapon styles as clip, skinner, pruner, sheep foot, spey, coping, razor, pen, and cuticle.

(b) Weapons with fixed blades. Importations of certain articles having a fixed unexposed or exposed blade are not within the prohibition of 15 U.S.C. 1241 through 1245. However, upon release by Customs, possession of these admissible articles which include such weapons as sword canes, camel whips, swords, sheath knives, machetes and similar devices that may be capable of use as weapons may be in violation of State or municipal laws.

[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]


There is no federal law that prohibits the importation of double-edged knives. When I worked for BlackHawk, I designed the UK-SFK--the issue dagger for the British SAS. It and several other double-edged knives we produced were produced in Taiwan and legally imported into the U.S. in full compliance with all applicable customs regulations (paragraph b above). Many other knife companies, including Boker and Cold Steel, legally import double-edged knives in exactly the same way.

With all that said, the actual consumer market for double-edged knives is much more limited than the market for single-edged knives. The reason is that the carry--and sometimes mere possession--of double-edged knives, dirks, daggers, etc. is prohibited by many state and/or municipal laws. This fact is mentioned in the Customs regulation quoted above. Although compliance with applicable laws is always the responsibility of the consumer, since the market space is more limited, the commercial potential is also more limited. For that reason, producing double-edged knives isn't always a wise or profitable business decision.

So what about all the new-production foreign-made switchblades and balisongs that are being openly sold on the Internet and through dealers? They are being imported in violation of the Customs regulation. It's that simple.

Stay safe,

Mike

Mike

Curious your thoughts on some new MBC type folders and possible new collaborations. Anyone you would like to see get a chance at a design? Anything new for you? I am getting the micro Jimbo for sure and look forward to hearing any insights you are able to ahare