Thinnest functional bladestock for a general use folder

[Snacktime]

Let's not forget that the the thinner the blade stock, thinner the lock interface. Even a friction folder has a back stop and wear point.

Lots of engineering issues to overcome.

[JRinFL]

Why wouldn't regular Magnacut be good at this?

MC is already better than the steel in all my current multi-blade knives (SAKs & traditionals), however there were concerns about broken blades. I assumed that an MC made for thinner stock might be made tougher than the current mix. For my uses, it is already sufficient.

I wasn't aware of these concerns? From where do they originate? Are people actually breaking blades and under what circumstances?

MagnaCut doesn't have the toughness of AEB-L, 14C28N, LC200N, or Nitro-V; but neither do most stainless blade steels. It is still significantly tougher than S35VN, Elmax, N690, and other stainless steels used in premium fixed blades. I don't know how thin people are willing to go but I have something on order with 0.10" stock and zero concerns about anything I'd ever ask of it.

Hopefully one or more of the blade breakers will respond to you questions. I haven't broken a blade, yet. Sal said they needed to modify the tip profile of the Endura and Delica in order to add more strength to the tips of those models as people were snapping the tips off. Those of us who understand what a knife is and isn't for have to suffer due to the ignorance of others.

[Matus]

Let's not forget that the the thinner the blade stock, thinner the lock interface. Even a friction folder has a back stop and wear point.

Lots of engineering issues to overcome.

The stock material (and thus the thickness relevant for the lock rea) can be whatever it needs to be and the blade can then be ground to target spine thickness at the ricasso. Obviously this is not a preferred solution as it requires way more material remover than a thinner stock would, plus it creates additional margin of error for the precise spine location (a complication for the grinding of the bevels), but it is far from impossible. It the difference would be too large, then it would also look weird, but that is also a question of the design.

[JRinFL]

Let's not forget that the the thinner the blade stock, thinner the lock interface. Even a friction folder has a back stop and wear point.

Lots of engineering issues to overcome.

The stock material (and thus the thickness relevant for the lock rea) can be whatever it needs to be and the blade can then be ground to target spine thickness at the ricasso. Obviously this is not a preferred solution as it requires way more material remover than a thinner stock would, plus it creates additional margin of error for the precise spine location (a complication for the grinding of the bevels), but it is far from impossible. It the difference would be too large, then it would also look weird, but that is also a question of the design.

I seem to remember that Sal said that is the way they did the performance Delica. I'm not certain, so don't accept as the truth.

[araneae]

If you all could see the knife Eric handed me at Blade Show, you'd see how thin they can push it. Think Opinel thin.

[wrdwrght]

If you all could see the knife Eric handed me at Blade Show, you'd see how thin they can push it. Think Opinel thin.

Surely, Nick, you can tell a bit more, like how long the blade?

[wrdwrght]

Having just acquired an ATS-55 Dyad (C44P&S), I do believe its PE blade-stock is as thin as a Chaparral’s, but its cutting edge is half an inch longer. Color me surprised.

[Enactive]

Stock thickness doesn't operate in a vacuum.

Blade length, height and tapers all figure as prominently in questions of blade strength and stiffness as does stock thickness.

Many of us like thin blade stock, thinly ground-- myself included. I really like my Chapparal models and K390 Delica for those attributes. Thickness behind the edge is also super important in blade geometry and my Sage LW is very good there despite 'moderately thick' blade stock.

I also like other knives for other purposes. I hear people here talk about the 3.2mm stock thickness of the back lock native family as 'overly thick' and wonder if they've even used one.

[chronovore]

Hopefully one or more of the blade breakers will respond to you questions. I haven't broken a blade, yet. Sal said they needed to modify the tip profile of the Endura and Delica in order to add more strength to the tips of those models as people were snapping the tips off. Those of us who understand what a knife is and isn't for have to suffer due to the ignorance of others.

I hope they do. I am very interested to hear the exact circumstances under which it occurred for each of them.

I'd be very surprised if they needed to modify the tips of existing models specifically to prevent breakage with MagnaCut. I don't know of any particular feature that would make it more prone to snapping than the range of other steels that have been used in those models. If anything, it should be less prone to snapping as it has significantly higher toughness than S30V or VG10. I don't know how to tag people here but maybe somebody could get Larrin's attention on this?

BTW, I'm with you on that last sentence. Some people do dumb things with tools. I would rather see companies put clear instructions, warnings, and policies in place rather than try to dumb-proof the products. I feel the same way about knife design and consumer disassembly. A common complaint on similar reasoning in the gun community has been unnecessarily heavy stock trigger pulls on double-actions.

[Wandering_About]

Why wouldn't regular Magnacut be good at this?

MC is already better than the steel in all my current multi-blade knives (SAKs & traditionals), however there were concerns about broken blades. I assumed that an MC made for thinner stock might be made tougher than the current mix. For my uses, it is already sufficient.

I wasn't aware of these concerns? From where do they originate? Are people actually breaking blades and under what circumstances?

MagnaCut doesn't have the toughness of AEB-L, 14C28N, LC200N, or Nitro-V; but neither do most stainless blade steels. It is still significantly tougher than S35VN, Elmax, N690, and other stainless steels used in premium fixed blades. I don't know how thin people are willing to go but I have something on order with 0.10" stock and zero concerns about anything I'd ever ask of it.

Hopefully one or more of the blade breakers will respond to you questions. I haven't broken a blade, yet. Sal said they needed to modify the tip profile of the Endura and Delica in order to add more strength to the tips of those models as people were snapping the tips off. Those of us who understand what a knife is and isn't for have to suffer due to the ignorance of others.

I've broken a very tiny part of the tip off my first Delica. It had been modified to have a nearly straight spine (I ground out the drop to the tip, for the most part) and the edge was thinned out a lot. I knew going into it that there was a risk of this, but wanted to see what would happen. I lost maybe 1mm of the tip somewhere along the line, and no longer modify the blade shape on Delicas. I also somehow managed to get some corrosion spotting on the VG-10 on this knife. It's seen some things.

[araneae]

If you all could see the knife Eric handed me at Blade Show, you'd see how thin they can push it. Think Opinel thin.

Surely, Nick, you can tell a bit more, like how long the blade?

As I recall, Delica sized, maybe a little smaller. Slim profile, weighed almost nothing.

[Ngati Pom]

If you all could see the knife Eric handed me at Blade Show, you'd see how thin they can push it. Think Opinel thin.

Surely, Nick, you can tell a bit more, like how long the blade?

As I recall, Delica sized, maybe a little smaller. Slim profile, weighed almost nothing.

Could this be the ‘Edgerati’ that Sal mentioned in the Which Spyderco are you carrying thread?

[Matus]

A general comment:

If one wants (for one reason or another) go to a very thin stock, than it is pretty much necessary to go away from FFG and the "trivial" distal taper (what means changing the cross-section of the blade along the blade lenght) to keep in check the mechanical stability of the blade and especially the tip. One option is a sabre grind, some sort of concave grind, or convex grind blended to flat grind (I would call that a 'freestyle' grind in this context, as it would be basically impossible to make with conventional grinding methods and would either have to be done by hand, or by a multi-axis CNC - none of which is really a possibility in a large-ish volume and reasonable price range)

[Ramonade]

Opinel figured this out by doing an almost flat concave grind.

[Matus]

Opinel figured this out by doing an almost flat concave grind.

I guess you mean convex. I have not seen a concave (hollow) grind on a Opinel yet.

[Ramonade]

Opinel figured this out by doing an almost flat concave grind.

I guess you mean convex. I have not seen a concave (hollow) grind on a Opinel yet.

Oh sorry ! I meant convexe yes I misinterpreted your post. They use a convexe grind, but the radius is really low. This bring a thinner edge than the blade stock but it brings the full width of the blade stock up to the middle of the blade. A bit like a saber grind would do.

[bearfacedkiller]

Opinels and Japanese kitchen knives are where I get my thin knife fix. I would love to see Spyderco go thinner but I know why they don’t. I would carry an opinel all the time if they had better edge retention. I find them very comfortable and they cut very well. Sadly the edge is fleeting.

This is why I love the Police4 and some of Spyderco’s other larger folders. It has 3mm stock with a distal taper so more than half of the blade is under 2mm and it is very thin towards the tip. With a distal taper the tang doesn’t necessarily need to be thin. The end of the blade is thin and slicey and towards the tang it thickens up enough to keep the blade rigid. It also adds strength where it’s needed. If you apply lateral pressure to the blade, especially a longer blade, leverage concentrates it towards the tang.

Again, I want to see thinner. There are posts from years ago of me asking for a 1.5mm Police3 or Stretch. For now I’m just happy with the way they are grinding most of them.