Damasteel Ivory G10 Urban

[TomAiello]

Does anyone know who the production partner in Maniago is for the Urban?

I've actually had good luck with my Urbans (I've owned three K390s--one was confiscated by security at the Coliseum in Rome) and two AEB-Ls, as well as the HH s90v, and all have been very solid for me. I know there have been plenty of people who weren't happy with the quality, but my only complaint through all those Urbans is the shade of the FRN on the HH model.

I've also had _very_ good experiences with my other Maniago slip joints. And I'll admit I have a bit of a problem with buying them--I own lots, including multiple examples from Lionsteel, Fox, Viper and MKM. The F&F on all of them has been top rate (better than the Urbans, but also better than the UKPK, about which I have zero complaints).

[Superfool]

Poor Superfool asked for UKPK in this steel, but got a very, very expensive Urban. I guess not every shot will score a goal.

It will come to pass.

We WILL have a DAMAUKPK. I am certain of it.

And it will be even pricier, being Made in Golden.....

Well, let's not assume anything. But I do share your fears a little there.

I am unsure how the costs are broken down, but if the cost of the Urban is to do with prototyping and R&D etc, then the Urban might have taken some of that hit already. Might work out not so bad.

Also, why would it be cheaper to make it in Italy than America? Genuinely asking here.

[Superfool]

Honestly... At the price Spyderco is asking for the Damasteel Urban... I would just have my own made at this point. It wouldn't cost much more, and you could get exactly what you want.

A 4" piece of Damasteel in the pattern of your choice would cost $50.

$200 buys you a the work on the steel (CNC, heat treat, etching, profiling, sharpening, etc).

Throw in the cost of a donor UKPK and you're not much beyond the $280 price tag of the Urban.

The price of the Urban doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Spyderco Urban in G10 and S90V from Heinnie costs $165.

A 4" piece of S90V runs $10. A 4" piece of Damasteel runs $50. That puts the cost of a Damasteel UKPK at about $205. I'm not sure that $75 extra dollars to dip the Damasteel in an etching solution is very resonable.

Interesting points. I have (genuine) questions.

1. Where do those prices come come from?

2. Is this fairly common knowledge, or are you in the trade?

3. Are they based on buying metal in bulk from Damasteel, or can I literally order a 4" Damasteel piece for $50 delivered to my home?

4. Would a one-off built as a custom, be made as well as something R&D'd and prototyped prior to mass production? Would the quality really be the same? Would it last as long?

Please don't read that as challenging or confrontational, but I don't know so am genuinely asking.

[Matus]

Damasteel can be bought in different sizes and thicknesses. I payed about 80€ for a piece of Damasteel (around 45 x 200 x 3 mm large) for a smaller kitchen knife. So while that is expensive, it would be enough for quite a few Urbans. Last but not least - Damasteel is VERY easy to work (cut, grind, sand) with as it comes properly annealed from Era - contrary to many other steels).

It just came to my mind - even though very unlikely - the Urban should also have Damasteel back spring. That would look fantastic with the light colored G10.

[fixall]

I am unsure how the costs are broken down, but if the cost of the Urban is to do with prototyping and R&D etc, then the Urban might have taken some of that hit already. Might work out not so bad.

I don't know that the Damasteel Urban would have taken that much R&D/prototyping as Spyderco has already made at least one Damasteel/G10 Urban in the past.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29347

Honestly... At the price Spyderco is asking for the Damasteel Urban... I would just have my own made at this point. It wouldn't cost much more, and you could get exactly what you want.

A 4" piece of Damasteel in the pattern of your choice would cost $50.

$200 buys you a the work on the steel (CNC, heat treat, etching, profiling, sharpening, etc).

Throw in the cost of a donor UKPK and you're not much beyond the $280 price tag of the Urban.

The price of the Urban doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Spyderco Urban in G10 and S90V from Heinnie costs $165.

A 4" piece of S90V runs $10. A 4" piece of Damasteel runs $50. That puts the cost of a Damasteel UKPK at about $205. I'm not sure that $75 extra dollars to dip the Damasteel in an etching solution is very resonable.

Interesting points. I have (genuine) questions.

1. Where do those prices come come from?

2. Is this fairly common knowledge, or are you in the trade?

3. Are they based on buying metal in bulk from Damasteel, or can I literally order a 4" Damasteel piece for $50 delivered to my home?

4. Would a one-off built as a custom, be made as well as something R&D'd and prototyped prior to mass production? Would the quality really be the same? Would it last as long?

Please don't read that as challenging or confrontational, but I don't know so am genuinely asking.

1. I've purchased Damasteel over a dozen times, and that's about the average price for a small 4" piece. It's cheaper if you purchase larger stock.

2. I've had four blades made for Spyderco's and Benchmades and that is what I've paid each time. Sometimes there is a small programming fee to set up the CNC if the maker hasn't made a blade for the model of knife I send them.

3. That's U.S. pricing. I forgot you were based in the U.K. You'd have to check the pricing at Barmond, or one of the other distributors that ships to the U.K. at a reasonable rate.

4. That really depends on what you're willing to spend. $200 gets me a blade with lockup that is every bit as good as any of the production Spyderco's I own, and a grind that is much better. The heat treat is the questionable part, as I don't know how Spyderco's heat treat would compare. That being said... I have two reblade projects currently in the works that are going to cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than $200 a pop, and (based on the previous work by the two makers) I can basically guarantee that they are going to have much tighter tolerances than anything Spyderco has produced.

Damasteel Spartan Harsey Folder 3.25


Damacore Chris Reeve Small Sebenza 21 Insigno

[ZrowsN1s]

$250 for a custom piece of Damasteel is a good deal. Does that include shipping? Shipping of the piece of Damasteel to you, shipping to the maker, and shipping from the maker back to you?

[fixall]

$250 for a custom piece of Damasteel is a good deal. Does that include shipping? Shipping of the piece of Damasteel to you, shipping to the maker, and shipping from the maker back to you?

I just checked my last steel purchase. Here's the breakdown.

I purchased an 8" x .1" x 1.25" piece of Dense Twist Damasteel for $104.80. A 4" x .1" x 1.25" piece of Vinland Damasteel for $46.08. A 4" x .125" x 1" piece of Bjorkman's Twist Damasteel for $67.80.

I had a bunch of other steel on the order (18" of 52100, 18" of 80CRV2, 18" of 1095, 18" of AEB-L, 18" of RWL34, etc). The shipping was a flat fee of $12.95.

Insured shipping for the knife and steel to the maker was about $8.

The $200 price from the maker included all work and return shipping.

When all was said and done, the total cost for the Delica reblade was $267.08. $46.08 for the Damasteel, $12.95 for the shipping (probably cheaper for a single piece of steel), $8 for shipping to the maker, $200 for the work and return shipping. Add in the cost of the knife, and it's pretty close to the cost of the Damasteel Urban... With the added bonus of being able to pick absolutely any Damasteel pattern you want, how deep/dark the etching is, etc.

Damacore is when it starts to get REALLY crazy in price... I just checked what I paid for my last order direct from Damasteel.

An 11.8" x .125" x 1.5" piece of Damacore cost me $569 after shipping!

[sal]

Honestly... At the price Spyderco is asking for the Damasteel Urban... I would just have my own made at this point. It wouldn't cost much more, and you could get exactly what you want.

A 4" piece of Damasteel in the pattern of your choice would cost $50.

$200 buys you a the work on the steel (CNC, heat treat, etching, profiling, sharpening, etc).

Throw in the cost of a donor UKPK and you're not much beyond the $280 price tag of the Urban.

The price of the Urban doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Spyderco Urban in G10 and S90V from Heinnie costs $165.

A 4" piece of S90V runs $10. A 4" piece of Damasteel runs $50. That puts the cost of a Damasteel UKPK at about $205. I'm not sure that $75 extra dollars to dip the Damasteel in an etching solution is very resonable.

Interesting points. I have (genuine) questions.

1. Where do those prices come come from?

2. Is this fairly common knowledge, or are you in the trade?

3. Are they based on buying metal in bulk from Damasteel, or can I literally order a 4" Damasteel piece for $50 delivered to my home?

4. Would a one-off built as a custom, be made as well as something R&D'd and prototyped prior to mass production? Would the quality really be the same? Would it last as long?

Please don't read that as challenging or confrontational, but I don't know so am genuinely asking.

1. When we work with a vendor. They give us a price for a finished piece to which we add costs for shipping, QC + any work we have to do, plus our margins. The designs and standards are specified y us.

2. Costs of doing business I guess would be similar in most industries. Materials plus labor plus burden plus margin.

3. They are based on what the material costs the maker plus their labor to build the product. I imagine you could purchase a piece of Damasteel from them or from Barmond in Sheffield and have it shipped to your home. I don't know what those costs would be.

4. I don't know. I would guess it would depend on the maker as to the price and quality level. Not all makers are equal.

Hope that helps in your understanding.

sal

[curlyhairedboy]

Sal, I appreciate you bringing this to the fans. It’s going to be a very nice pocket piece.

[Gsg9]

1. When we work with a vendor. They give us a price for a finished piece to which we add costs for shipping, QC + any work we have to do, plus our margins. The designs and standards are specified y us.

2. Costs of doing business I guess would be similar in most industries. Materials plus labor plus burden plus margin.

3. They are based on what the material costs the maker plus their labor to build the product. I imagine you could purchase a piece of Damasteel from them or from Barmond in Sheffield and have it shipped to your home. I don't know what those costs would be.

4. I don't know. I would guess it would depend on the maker as to the price and quality level. Not all makers are equal.

Hope that helps in your understanding.

sal

1. When you work with a vendor and they give you a price don't you question where is that price coming from?
Because the high price doesn't make much sense...

Here's from the producer, presume for a larger volume would get discounts
https://www.eurotechni.com/en/damasteel ... twist.html

Urdan blade should probably fit into this 32 x 3,2 mm (au cm / by the cm) 6.66 € multiplied by say 8cm length that's aprox 54EUR

With some discount for larger volumes a blade for Urban should probably not cost more than 50EUR so I don't get this diference from S30V/S90V to DS93X - BJORKMANSTWIST

Because in the end this shows up in Europe as Urban Slipit Ivory G10 Damascus at 400EUR
https://www.boker.de/en/urban-slipit-iv ... dam?c=3602

And that doesn't make any sense, for 3 EUR less on the same shop you can buy an integral in titanium
https://www.boker.de/en/synergy-2-titan-flame-01we531

Well done.
M390, hollow ground
With a custom matching clip
With a steel insert, not like the 600EUR Stovepipe
https://www.boker.de/en/stovepipe-01sp1172?c=3602

Unless the price for Damasteel Urban is intentionally set as an ultra-mega-uber luxury item, but the price of materials don't actually reflect the price of the knife, because the materials are mass produced as well and they are not that expensive.

2. Another question for Spyderco.

These are made in EU with EU produced steel in EU factory with EU workforce.

Damascus steel Björkmans Twist™ is ideal for all sorts of knife blades DS93X™ is a Damascus food quality stainless steel made from the metallurgy of powders and produced by the Swedish firm Damasteel® from the high contrast RWL34 and PMC27 stainless steels.

So how would these end up being much more expensive in EU than in US? 280$ versus 400EUR, that's 460$
If you add an average 20% VAT in EU to 280$ US price that would be 336$ so where is this large difference coming from between the same Urban sold in US and in EU?

From what you say, do they ship the knives from Italy to US for QC, knives are put in a box in US, add the famous literature and then the knives are shipped back to EU dealers as US made adding EU taxes and duties for a US product?
Plus twice the price of shipping the same knife over the pond?

If that's true, no offense, but I think these practices are bizarre...
And bizarre practices produce these kind of results like a 400 EUR Urban.

Can't you just send a couple of your guys with a bag of boxes to QC where they are produced and then ship from Italy directly to EU dealers?

I mean I can understand for a product made in EU with EU materials to try to match EU prices with US prices, not to have a cheaper EU price than your homeland US.

But for a product made in EU with EU materials to be much more expensive in EU than in US that doesn't make any sense.

I remember you saying quite a while ago about EU prices that you are looking into this. So where and how exactly are you looking into this and what practical results did this produce.

Because if a 400EUR Urban doesn't raise any eyebrows in Spyderco offices then I don't know what is...

3.

Hi Doc,

That is my current plan. (which was the original plan). Change the shape of the blade on the 2.5" Urban (Lower the point)

sal

Not sure I can figure out from the pictures, was the point lowered for this model?
Or will this take several releases until is done.


Thank you

[sal]

Hi Gsg9,

We have to QC in golden. We've tried 3 times to set up distribution in Europe to try to save the consumer money and it failed each time. even this model needed attention in Golden before we could ship it.

Our prices are based on our costs to build the model. We cannot compete with a Chinese manufacturer on cost due to the 6/1 Yuan valuation. If you feel that the knife is not worth the cost, you should probably not purchase it?

We were asked to make a Damascus UK, which we could not fit in at this time. In an effort to try to serve the request, the best we could do was the Damasteel Urban. If the knife fails in the Marketplace, we will probably not try to make it again.

sal

[kennethsime]

Hi Gsg9,

...

sal

Sal, I admire your patience.

[Naperville]

I hope these sell out in 4hrs. I'm hoping for a Native Chief in Damasteel, looks excellent!

[Superfool]

If the knife fails in the Marketplace, we will probably not try to make it again.

sal

How many were made, Sal?

[sal]

Hi Superfool,

We made 1500. I've already glommed 3. I think it's a very nice piece. Just under 2.5" Point is in the right place. thinkit's an elegant piece, ut of course I'm biased as I designed the model and it's my project. Thanx much for the request. Troublemaker, I know it's not exactly what you wanted, but..................

I don't expect they would sell out in 4 hours, but I don't think they'll last a year?

BTW David, Kristi is trying to reach you.

sal

[Doc Dan]

I want one of these in the worst way. With doctor bills and a recession it is hard to come up with the cash. If it is meant to be, then I will certainly get one. It is a gorgeous knife and just the sort of thing I would carry.

[ChrisinHove]

It is rather lovely. I just hope enough people can scrape enough cash together to buy enough of them ….

[vanka]

I hope these sell out in 4hrs. I'm hoping for a Native Chief in Damasteel, looks excellent!

Why are you giving me ideas? In the other thread they're talking about fluted titanium Native Chief, now this. The image of a Damasteel Native Chief is permanently burned into my brain.
Back on the topic - i'll definitely get at least one. If it's still in stock after a month might get a second one as a backup. As a person living in UK i have particular interest in the UK legal pieces.

[fixall]

I think I came off more negative than I intended. Tone over text has always been hard for me to convey.

The recent QCI of the HH Urban has me rethinking this a little bit. The pivot was my main concern on a higher priced knife…. Seeing how that’s been resolved, I might just end up with on of these.

[archangel]

Well... I have made my peace with the fact that I have to pay the price. With shipping + tax + duties it'll cost me >$300 which is kind of crazy, but: A) I've always wanted a Damasteel Spydie. B) I doubt that the UKPK will cost less. C) I do not like the Ivory scales -> so I'll change them, one way or another. And D) since 1500 were made, I think the chance of grabbing one is not that bad.

And so the hunt begins.....