We don't actually need to Magnacut *all* the knives

[DunninLA]

] the only knife I'll probably have in MC is a custom Santoku I'm having made.

Good choice.

I think kitchen use is actually the ideal place for Magnacut to be the steal (spelling intended) to rule all steels, more than EDCs, where you could argue for a lot of different steels depending on use case. I suppose for protein breakdown type work maybe LC200N would be better with higher toughness.

For the kitchen, MC has the hardness to resist edge rolling when the blade hits the cutting board while chopping. It has the corrosion resistance for when a knife is left wet for hours, or when citrus is cut. It has the toughness to resist the microchipping that is so common with Blue 2 or Super Blue, or any of the paper steels, for accidentally hitting bones, or just from chopping.

[Wartstein]

M390 does have better edge retention according to Larrin's chart:

... and LC 200N more toughness (according to the chart).

[Evil D]

I dunno guys. We didn't need to S30V/VG10 them all either but it happened.

These topics, sometimes people make it out like we're advocating for a steel to completely replace all other steels, like it'll be the only steel Spyderco ever makes a knife with forever. It's really no different than any of the 20 other steels that have come and gone, it'll be easy enough to not buy if you don't like it and I'm sure the vanilla flavors will still be there for all of you to enjoy.

[JRinFL]

Sal and Eric are forming attack squads that will fill your house with sleep gas, then ninja cutlers will replace all the knife blades in your house with Magnacut blades. It's happening, do not resist! 🥷

Magnacut is an excellent blade steel that covers a LOT of ground, but there will always be room for steels that have higher edge retention, or are tougher, or are less expensive. I personally feel MC should replace most if not all the middle ground blade steels. For my use, it is just about perfect. For you? Maybe, maybe not.

[Evil D]

Sal and Eric are forming attack squads that will fill your house with sleep gas, then ninja cutlers will replace all the knife blades in your house with Magnacut blades. It's happening, do not resist! 🥷

Magnacut is an excellent blade steel that covers a LOT of ground, but there will always be room for steels that have higher edge retention, or are tougher, or are less expensive. I personally feel MC should replace most if not all the middle ground blade steels. For my use, it is just about perfect. For you? Maybe, maybe not.

I think it's literally a kind of insecurity, or maybe more like uncertainty. AFI types are always focusing on what is the absolute best, and it sucks when you feel like you've got that part narrowed down and defined, but something comes along and challenges what you know to be the best. Some people find excitement in that uncertainty but I think some might be slightly (on a first world problem basis) overwhelmed by it.

[James Y]

I would imagine that, even if steel technology advanced to the point of producing a "perfect" steel that was unbreakable, was easy to machine, was super-tough, takes a super-sharp edge, held its edge through months of hard work yet was easy to resharpen on a Sharpmaker, was impossible to corrode. etc., etc., there would still be a considerable number of people who say such a steel is unnecessary, and would prefer 1095 carbon steel blades.

Jim

[Ricey_9]

Why not mc everything?? Would you really be mad if it replaced s30v ?

[tangent]

I reckon the market will decide how many knives we need to 'Magnacut'. I have not heard a negative about this steel yet. I am sure there are other steels that are better choices for some applications, but for the common everyday user who wants a knife that holds a decent edge (wear resistance), doesn't chip easily (toughness), and is very low maintenance (corrosion resistance)... Magnacut is very, very hard to beat. And the price doesn't seem to be exorbitantly high. Personally, I think the only thing holding Magnacut back will be supply... but that will likely be fixed as well as more and more Magnacut is made and less of the other steels are produced. We'll see.

[electro-static]

Like, I get it, there's really great enthusiasm for this really great new steel.

If we look at it from a numbers-only point of view (source) we can see that the steel offers *amazing* corrosion resistance with *good* toughness, and *average* edge retention (for PM steels anyways). I think we also need to recognize that these numbers were generated by the person who created the steel and stands to financially benefit from the sale of the steel. Given this, I also have tracked his articles for a long time, and I do not actually doubt his claims, but I also think that good science requires for claims to be duplicated before they are widely accepted. That being said, I will go ahead and take his numbers as either correct, or close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

So, what knives benefit from this mix of amazing corrosion resistance, average edge retention, and good toughness? I think an obvious answer is general-use work folders, the kind that people are going to be using for manual labor that benefit greatly from edge stability during a variety of tasks, and where the user won't want to spend a lot of time or effort on maintenance, and don't want to worry about using for tasks that might get moisture into the pivot. This is, in fact, a lot of knives, and really represents a lot of spyderco's bread-and-butter designs. I think that Magnacut may actually be as close to a "perfect" steel for knives like the paramilitary line, natives, sage, etc. as there can be among commonly-available knife steels.

So, what about the knives that don't actually see as much benefit from Magnacut, as my title suggests? Well, let's talk about the properties that can be more or less important for different types of knives. Very small knives tend to do more cutting with less available cutting edge, so they can benefit a lot more from higher edge retention. Fixed blade knives are easy to keep oiled and don't have mechanisms to maintain, so they don't necessarily need high corrosion resistance. Knives that are going to see "hard use" such as chopping or batoning may favor toughness a bit more over edge retention.

Currently, people seem to be clamoring for Magnacut in literally every knife, but knives with edge length equal to or less than the Dragonfly I just don't see it as being an ideal steel for them. I know a lot of people poo-poo S30V, but I think the general class of higher-edge-retention, mediocre-toughness stainless powder metallurgy steels are probably better for these folders.

I do think that Magnacut is probably going to be a brilliant steel for general-purpose fixed blade knives, however I can also see people who might value M4 more due to its significantly better edge retention with a smidge less toughness, or LC200N for being basically impervious to corrosion and extremely high toughness allowing for good edge stability coupled with kinda-pretty-okish edge retention.

In summation, I do think it's going to be a great steel, and I think Spyderco's decision for the Native 5 Salt to be the first official magnacut spyderco is an excellent one, but I also think a lot of people are just asking for the shiny new hotness rather than actually thinking about what steels are best for which use cases.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that not every knife needs it, I don’t think it will replace tough low alloy steels, tough basic stainless steels like 8Cr13Mov or AEBL, or specialist ones like Lc200n. I also don’t think it will replace high edge retention steels likeK390, 10V, Maxamet ect. S90V or well treated M390.

However I recallLartin saying that it costs similar to S35VN to make so I can see it devouring S30V, S35VN, XHP, Elmax, And possibly S45VN in 3-5 years once production ramps up and stocks of those steels are depleted. When that happens there isn’t a reason for it not to be industry standard for most knives above as $100 as the cost will be similar to producing those steels new.

For high end knives, either someone will figure out how to make a magna-cut class steel with 10V, or High wear resistant steels like S90V or M398 will be seen as premium offerings instead. I think premium heat treatments will also become increasingly hyped.

If you want proof of the way industry is moving, Chris Reeve Knives just moved to it for new blades abandoning a steel they they helped develop less than 3 years before. CRK is one of the most conservative knife makers, and often sets the trends for the knife industry with the materials they choose for their knives (S30V, S35VN are defacto standards that they helped develop)

[electro-static]

Double Post Deleted

[vandelay]

...

I agree and disagree.

I agree that not every knife needs it, I don’t think it will replace tough low alloy steels, tough basic stainless steels like 8Cr13Mov or AEBL, or specialist ones like Lc200n. I also don’t think it will replace high edge retention steels likeK390, 10V, Maxamet ect. S90V or well treated M390.

However I recallLartin saying that it costs similar to S35VN to make so I can see it devouring S30V, S35VN, XHP, Elmax, And possibly S45VN in 3-5 years once production ramps up and stocks of those steels are depleted. When that happens there isn’t a reason for it not to be industry standard for most knives above as $100 as the cost will be similar to producing those steels new.

For high end knives, either someone will figure out how to make a magna-cut class steel with 10V, or High wear resistant steels like S90V or M398 will be seen as premium offerings instead. I think premium heat treatments will also become increasingly hyped.

If you want proof of the way industry is moving, Chris Reeve Knives just moved to it for new blades abandoning a steel they they helped develop less than 3 years before. CRK is one of the most conservative knife makers, and often sets the trends for the knife industry with the materials they choose for their knives (S30V, S35VN are defacto standards that they helped develop)

I would expect Magnacut to become the new S35VN in a few years. These days when I see a company that hasn't used S30V forever (e.g. buck, esee, etc.) move to a premium steel, I almost always see S35VN. Even Spyderco's China factory recently added knives in S35VN.

Whether it'll replace the other premium steels (e.g. S30V, XHP, Elmax, etc.), I don't know. If it costs the same and sells better, they might start changing. It'll probably take some time for bigger companies to move over if they decide to.

I'd still expect niche steels like super premium steels and tool steels to remain mostly the same. 4V will probably disappear. Maybe M4 will be available less. LC200N may also disappear eventually.

[Tristan_david2001]

I think I just hate the name magnacut now.

[James Y]

I think I just hate the name magnacut now.

Already?

Magnacut is just starting to get released on some models in Spyderco’s main lineup. Personally, I’d like to give it a chance before I make up my mind about it. That is, if I can ever convince myself that I really need to buy another knife again…

Jim

[sal]

I reckon the market will decide how many knives we need to 'Magnacut'.

As always. It's challenging to produce products that do not sell.

When we introduced K390 to the production market, reaction was very good so more models were created in that steel.

sal

[Xformer]

I reckon the market will decide how many knives we need to 'Magnacut'.

As always. It's challenging to produce products that do not sell.

When we introduced K390 to the production market, reaction was very good so more models were created in that steel.

sal

Magnacut Slysz Bowie though...

I'm out.

[JRinFL]

Magnacut Slysz Bowie though...

I'm out.

Ahh, yeah that might squeeze some dollars out of my pocket.

[Unluckycharm]

I reckon the market will decide how many knives we need to 'Magnacut'.

As always. It's challenging to produce products that do not sell.

When we introduced K390 to the production market, reaction was very good so more models were created in that steel.

sal

Sal, why hasn’t K390 been adopted to the golden line yet? If the reaction was good on the initial models and more models adopted the steel- would it not make sense to bring the platform to golden? Cost is king for a manufacturing operation but the selling price can be scaled to the production increase of the unit. Can we expect to see K390 in golden produced knives in 2023?

[TkoK83Spy]

I've wondered that myself, and I'm not a deep thinker on any if this stuff either, but K390 would make a killing in the Golden lineup!! I'd be very interested in how the G10 would look as well.

[Unluckycharm]

I've wondered that myself, and I'm not a deep thinker on any if this stuff either, but K390 would make a killing in the Golden lineup!! I'd be very interested in how the G10 would look as well.

Seki blue g-10 obviously!

[Hopsbreath]

I reckon the market will decide how many knives we need to 'Magnacut'.

As always. It's challenging to produce products that do not sell.

When we introduced K390 to the production market, reaction was very good so more models were created in that steel.

sal

Sal, why hasn’t K390 been adopted to the golden line yet? If the reaction was good on the initial models and more models adopted the steel- would it not make sense to bring the platform to golden? Cost is king for a manufacturing operation but the selling price can be scaled to the production increase of the unit. Can we expect to see K390 in golden produced knives in 2023?

I've wondered that myself, and I'm not a deep thinker on any if this stuff either, but K390 would make a killing in the Golden lineup!! I'd be very interested in how the G10 would look as well.

A little off topic, but K390 PM2 and Para3 can be found at BentoBox. The G10 is “ranger greeen.”