With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

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Araignee
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With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Araignee » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:05 am

I'm not alone in feeling that the Chaparral's has been neglected despite its untapped potential. This subject has been raised several times before.

For some reason the Chaparral is relegated as a "gentleman's knife" which basically only ever sees updates to its handle materials.

It's a very comfortable knife, its leaf shaped blade is polyvalent, and its blade length-to-overall length ratio is really excellent.

Yet, the Chaparral is only offered in CTS-XHP. A steel which isn't bad but for which corrosion resistance is a weak point.
As a result, prospective customers who value this parameter are being left searching for a different knife model, that may not be their first choice.

By comparison, its sibling the Native 5 is offered in no less than five different steel variants : S30V (incl. with DLC coating), S90V, S110V, LC200N, REX45 !

I'm not suggesting that the Chaparral should be declined in as many versions, but its standard CTS-XHP steel could at least be upgraded into what a more well-rounded steel - maybe MagnaCut.

Imagine a Chaparral with a black DLC MagnaCut blade and birdseye maple scales, now that'd be such a rad combination :cheap-sunglasses

Additionally, a Boye dent and lesser backlock resistance out of the factory could be CQI worthy 💡

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Wartstein
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Wartstein » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:06 am

Araignee wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:05 am
.....
For some reason the Chaparral is relegated as a "gentleman's knife" which basically only ever sees updates to its handle materials.

It's a very comfortable knife, its leaf shaped blade is polyvalent, and its blade length-to-overall length ratio is really excellent.

Yet, the Chaparral is only offered in CTS-XHP. A steel which isn't bad but for which corrosion resistance is a weak point.
....
I'm not suggesting that the Chaparral should be declined in as many versions, but its standard CTS-XHP steel could at least be upgraded into what a more well-rounded steel - maybe MagnaCut.
...
Additionally, a Boye dent and lesser backlock resistance out of the factory could be CQI worthy 💡
I am with you on many points, for example that the Chap is much more than "just" a gentlemans knife, has a perfect blade and especially blade stock thickness for its small size in a world of fat bladed Mini folders and so on.

But while another steel than XHP technically would be an UPDATE, for me it would really not be an UPGRADE necessarily.
XHP is great imho, and really not so prone to corrosion that this would be a problem for most people, except if they are bothered by slight discolorations or spots on the blade. Which actually make the knife more personal imho, and are of no functional impact.
XHP even has a bit better edge retention than Magnacut, according to Larrins findings.

And XHP is very rare in Spydercos line up anyway!

So: I hope they´ll keep this great steel for the Chap.
And perhaps make a dedicated Salt version for those who want that.

/ The Chap was explicitly meant to display various handle materials, so this is why they get "updatet"

/ Also: I hope they keep the firm backlock! It is really no problem to mod it to being easier to depress for thos who want this...

Just my 2c of course, and I do hope you´ll get the exact Chap you want! :smlling-eyes
Top three going by pocket-time (update August 22):
- EDC: Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10), Manix 2 LW PE (REX 45) , Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Also Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10); Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N)

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:17 am

Anyone know for sure if MagnaCut will be shipped overseas to other makers or not?
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Araignee
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Araignee » Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:34 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:06 am
I am with you on many points, for example that the Chap is much more than "just" a gentlemans knife, has a perfect blade and especially blade stock thickness for its small size in a world of fat bladed Mini folders and so on.

But while another steel than XHP technically would be an UPDATE, for me it would really not be an UPGRADE necessarily.
XHP is great imho, and really not so prone to corrosion that this would be a problem for most people, except if they are bothered by slight discolorations or spots on the blade. Which actually make the knife more personal imho, and are of no functional impact.
XHP even has a bit better edge retention than Magnacut, according to Larrins findings.

And XHP is very rare in Spydercos line up anyway!

So: I hope they´ll keep this great steel for the Chap.
And perhaps make a dedicated Salt version for those who want that.

/ The Chap was explicitly meant to display various handle materials, so this is why they get "updatet"

/ Also: I hope they keep the firm backlock! It is really no problem to mod it to being easier to depress for thos who want this...

Just my 2c of course, and I do hope you´ll get the exact Chap you want! :smlling-eyes
Thank you for your input !

You are making good observations, especially about CTS-XHP being rarely found elsewhere amongst Spyderco's products which I hadn't thought about.

I guess I was writing from the point of someone most concerned with corrosion ; in this sense using another steel for the blade could be an upgrade.

Taking your remarks into account, why not offer two steels for the Chaparral ?
  • The usual CTS-XHP steel
  • The new MagnaCut in black DLC
This would allow two different use cases, along with two different aesthetic styles. This would be a good refresh for the Chaparral IMHO.

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Toucan » Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:41 am

Araignee wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:34 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:06 am
I am with you on many points, for example that the Chap is much more than "just" a gentlemans knife, has a perfect blade and especially blade stock thickness for its small size in a world of fat bladed Mini folders and so on.

But while another steel than XHP technically would be an UPDATE, for me it would really not be an UPGRADE necessarily.
XHP is great imho, and really not so prone to corrosion that this would be a problem for most people, except if they are bothered by slight discolorations or spots on the blade. Which actually make the knife more personal imho, and are of no functional impact.
XHP even has a bit better edge retention than Magnacut, according to Larrins findings.

And XHP is very rare in Spydercos line up anyway!

So: I hope they´ll keep this great steel for the Chap.
And perhaps make a dedicated Salt version for those who want that.

/ The Chap was explicitly meant to display various handle materials, so this is why they get "updatet"

/ Also: I hope they keep the firm backlock! It is really no problem to mod it to being easier to depress for thos who want this...

Just my 2c of course, and I do hope you´ll get the exact Chap you want! :smlling-eyes
Thank you for your input !

You are making good observations, especially about CTS-XHP being rarely found elsewhere amongst Spyderco's products which I hadn't thought about.

I guess I was writing from the point of someone most concerned with corrosion ; in this sense using another steel for the blade could be an upgrade.

Taking your remarks into account, why not offer two steels for the Chaparral ?
  • The usual CTS-XHP steel
  • The new MagnaCut in black DLC
This would allow two different use cases, along with two different aesthetic styles. This would be a good refresh for the Chaparral IMHO.
I'd rather see the DLC on the XHP since the Magnacut is so stainless. I very much would like a Magnacut chappy!

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Wartstein » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:37 am

Araignee wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:34 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:06 am
...
....

I guess I was writing from the point of someone most concerned with corrosion ; in this sense using another steel for the blade could be an upgrade.

Taking your remarks into account, why not offer two steels for the Chaparral ?
  • The usual CTS-XHP steel
  • The new MagnaCut in black DLC
This would allow two different use cases, along with two different aesthetic styles. This would be a good refresh for the Chaparral IMHO.

I totally understand that XHP is not for those whose main concern is corrosion resistance!

And I'd actually really like to see that the Chap platform gets tried out by more people- just for the great knife itself, but also for making (imho!) reasonable bladestock thickness/thinness on smaller folders more popular.

So I think your "two steel approach" is an excellent idea (DLC on Magnacut is nothing I'd personally need, but I 'd also not be opposed to it. Would probably look pretty cool and make it easier to differenciate at first glance between MC and XHP).
Top three going by pocket-time (update August 22):
- EDC: Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10), Manix 2 LW PE (REX 45) , Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Also Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10); Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N)

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Araignee » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:47 am

Toucan wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:41 am
I'd rather see the DLC on the XHP since the Magnacut is so stainless. I very much would like a Magnacut chappy!
DLC could indeed marginally improve the XHP's resistance to corrosion. On the other hand, putting it on MagnaCut could serve to enhance the steel's novelty (and perhaps entice some existing owners to another Chaparral to their collection) :thinking

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:08 am

Black blades out of Taichung are titanium carbonitride (TiCN) coated, not DLC. The Chaparral was designed as a vehicle for different handle types (like the Kopa) not different steels (like the Native 5).
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Araignee » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:20 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:37 am
I totally understand that XHP is not for those whose main concern is corrosion resistance!

And I'd actually really like to see that the Chap platform gets tried out by more people- just for the great knife itself, but also for making (imho!) reasonable bladestock thickness/thinness on smaller folders more popular.

So I think your "two steel approach" is an excellent idea (DLC on Magnacut is nothing I'd personally need, but I 'd also not be opposed to it. Would probably look pretty cool and make it easier to differenciate at first glance between MC and XHP).
Blade thickness is another argument which I hadn't considered - truth be told, I've never paid attention to such specifications on my knives (then again, I'm pretty much a knife noob) :thinking
But it's certainly an important parameter to have in mind, and if it adds to the Chaparral's selling points, we shall emphasise it.

Truth be told, I don't need DLC either... but it's too cool to overlook :zany And as we discussed, it could provide commercial and ergonomic (easy distinction) benefits.

Marketing wise, I understand that Spyderco have a lot on their plates, and they probably judge that there are enough neighbouring offerings to retain customers unhappy with the lack of choice in Chaparral steel.
But after so many years of just updating the handles (Chaparral LW included), my intuition is that addressing the lack of variety in blades could give this model a better commercial boost.

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Araignee » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:33 am

RadioactiveSpyder wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:08 am
Black blades out of Taichung are titanium carbonitride (TiCN) coated, not DLC. The Chaparral was designed as a vehicle for different handle types (like the Kopa) not different steels (like the Native 5).
Thank you for pointing this out this technical distinction. I wonder if this could be an opportunity for the Taichung factory to reconsider its coating process, though they probably chose TiCN because I suspect it's cheaper to implement :thinking

I think the commercial positioning of the Chaparral can evolve without straying much from the original intent.
One cannot eternally satisfy customers with handles alone... at some point they will want some novelty in the blade department as well (especially if they weren't completely happy in that department to begin with). So either the longstanding steel gets replaced, or it is to coexist with a complementary steel.

Even choosing the latter option, there'd still be a big gap between the 2 Chaparral steels and the 5+ Native 5 steels.
Customers wanting endless steel options with the same handle format wouldn't hesitate to shop for Native 5.

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Wartstein » Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:44 am

RadioactiveSpyder wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:08 am
.....The Chaparral was designed as a vehicle for different handle types (like the Kopa) not different steels (like the Native 5).
This is true of course.

But "unfortunately" the Chap has other pretty unique aspects, not really found in any other Spydie:
- The 2mm ffg blade (just a better base for great slicing performance while stil being strong(
- Perhaps the best executed Spyderco backlock ever (with internal stop pin)
- extremely robust build
- extremely thin in carry with still great ergos

So for me it is obvious that of course people who like these unique features and performance oriented folders want more steel (and blade shape (wharnie!) and SE- ) options in this platform

Or: Just a new model, but with similar aspects.
Top three going by pocket-time (update August 22):
- EDC: Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10), Manix 2 LW PE (REX 45) , Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Also Stretch 2 XL SE (VG10); Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N)

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby ladybug93 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:33 am

do you have personal experience with corrosion on xhp? i only ask because i carried my xhp manix in hawaii for years and now carry it on the east coast and have only ever had one spot show up that wiped right off with oil and a qtip. as someone that highly prefers salt knives, i've never had any real problem with xhp, even when i hiked with it in a rainforest repeatedly and posed it for pictures under a waterfall.

that said, i'm not trying to argue against you with anecdotal evidence... i'm just trying to set your mind at ease about the corrosion resistance of xhp if you haven't tried it because you think it will rust. it's certainly possible you have an entirely different experience from me.

regardless, i wouldn't say the chaparral couldn't use some more steel options. i'm sure there are a lot of people that would prefer it in their favorite steel. i agree that magnacut would be cool.
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current collection:
C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10/Damascus, 440C

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby WRB » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:39 am

I have also not had any corrosion issues with XHP in a humid climate. I've cut open bleach containers then shook the blade around in pool water and just threw the knife in my back pocket without drying it off. No prob. XHP is good stuff.

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby cycleguy » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:32 am

I'm content with the Chaparral in XHP, but I would certainly buy this little gem in other steel offerings; likely all of them as it would make a great collector knife. A BHQ G10 M4 satin and/or black exclusive would be too much to resist! (Hopefully BHQ is listening). Magnacut would get my money too, but not because there is anything wrong/lacking with the XHP version.

There has been talk (by forum members/not by Spyderco) about an elongated Chaparral; Magnacut may be the perfect match for such a knife.

As far as the stiff backlock, I have two Chaparrals - one has a stiffer backlock and the other does not - and I would take the less stiff backlock 100% of the time over the stiffer backlock.
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby JSumm » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:41 am

cycleguy wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:32 am
I'm content with the Chaparral in XHP, but I would certainly buy this little gem in other steel offerings; likely all of them as it would make a great collector knife. A BHQ G10 M4 satin and/or black exclusive would be too much to resist! (Hopefully BHQ is listening). Magnacut would get my money too, but not because there is anything wrong/lacking with the XHP version.

There has been talk (by forum members/not by Spyderco) about an elongated Chaparral; Magnacut may be the perfect match for such a knife.

As far as the stiff backlock, I have two Chaparrals - one has a stiffer backlock and the other does not - and I would take the less stiff backlock 100% of the time over the stiffer backlock.
A larger Chaparral would be a good opportunity to change the steel. Maybe a tougher steel to maintain the thin blade stock. And I would agree, a less stiff backlock.

I think XHP is great. I think as Warstein said it is the only production model offered in this. So, kinda cool to keep it around.
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Eli Chaps » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:01 am

I don't think the Chap was relegated to being a gentleman's knife per se. If I recall correctly, Sal launched it specifically to showcase different handle materials. Sort of like the Sage does with different locks.

I carry Chaparral LW a lot and I really like XHP.

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Mushroom » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:27 am

JSumm wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:41 am
cycleguy wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:32 am
I'm content with the Chaparral in XHP, but I would certainly buy this little gem in other steel offerings; likely all of them as it would make a great collector knife. A BHQ G10 M4 satin and/or black exclusive would be too much to resist! (Hopefully BHQ is listening). Magnacut would get my money too, but not because there is anything wrong/lacking with the XHP version.

There has been talk (by forum members/not by Spyderco) about an elongated Chaparral; Magnacut may be the perfect match for such a knife.

As far as the stiff backlock, I have two Chaparrals - one has a stiffer backlock and the other does not - and I would take the less stiff backlock 100% of the time over the stiffer backlock.
A larger Chaparral would be a good opportunity to change the steel. Maybe a tougher steel to maintain the thin blade stock. And I would agree, a less stiff backlock.

I think XHP is great. I think as Warstein said it is the only production model offered in this. So, kinda cool to keep it around.
There are multiple regular production models that use CTS-XHP. Chaparral, McBee, Swayback, Techno 2, and I could be missing some. It performs well in my usage, I have no problems with CTS-XHP.

———

Personally, I would prefer the Chaparral remain a platform dedicated to consistency by only using different handle materials and textures. I like the tradition and integrity that embodies the whole series.

That said, I wholly expect that they’ll let someone do an exclusive eventually. :-|| (I felt the same way about the Sage series but now, that model is fair game to change in any way possible.)

Of course I understand I am in absolutely no position to make decisions for the company, nor would I try, but I just dislike outside sources forcing change to established traditions.
———

If a larger Chaparral were to ever get made, I would rather see it be named something totally unrelated to the Chaparral and not even be involved with the original intention of the Chaparral series. A larger model should get one handle material and one steel, no series of choices.
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby tonijedi » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:34 am

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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby Paraguy » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:38 am

I run with my chap. It gets salty sweat on it and rarely ever does rust appear. I just remember to wipe it off and it never lets me down. I got rust on it once however, it was hardly any at all. It didn't pit and it was easy to polish off with some flitz. I don't think this "upgrade" would be worth it for me personally although I do like the idea of doing more runs of the chap it various steels. I'm sure a Magnacut sprint would do well. But for me, I would prefer more edge retention it such a small thin blade.
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Re: With MagnaCut looming, it's time to update the Chaparral's steel

Postby dan31 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:52 am

XHP is a great steel for the Chap. I think they have it down at the mfg. No need to change unless the $ make business sense for Spyderco as both steels at exported from the US and imported.


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