Native 5 salt is Magnacut?

[sethwm]

We already had folks requesting a salt version of almost every knife and it seems like I have heard a lot of requests to Magnacut many models.

Here come the requests to Magnacut everything.

I believe I said from the start that if MC lives up to the advanced billing, it will likely replace most mid-grade blade steels. More extreme steels would still be around like Maxamet, for instance. Why would I want S30V/S35VN/S45VN/VG10/N690co/etc. when I could have MC for a similar price? Of course, this assumes makers don't charge a premium for MC despite its cost being similar to other PM steels. However, after two tough years, I expect there to be a premium applied.

And let's not forget XHP (*ahem*... chaparral)!

[JRinFL]

For people who's highest priority is edge retention, there are reasons to choose S30V and S45VN over Magnacut. Same reason I'd pick S90V over any of those, corrosion resistance and toughness are less of a priority for me.

That said I'm excited to try Magnacut, for those applications where stainless and toughness is a priority, it has good edge retention compared to it's peers with similar toughness and corrosion resistance.

I'll grant you S30V in the edge retention category and add M390/20CV, but S45VN should be very close to MC. S90V and above I don't consider to be a mid-level steel. Of course, I'm no expert.

[bobnikon]

doubled up

[bobnikon]

So...

Did we just get our forum knife, in a production folder?

How about the first couple hundred are available to those who are a member for a month or more, and then it gets released to Joe Public?

[Ramonade]

So...

Did we just get our forum knife, in a production folder?

How about the first couple hundred are available to those who are a member for a month or more, and then it gets released to Joe Public?

You're dreaming, but i LOVE dreams. I'm in

[bleasure]

There's a treasure-trove of good usable data on Larrin's Knife Steel Nerds Patreon site.

Thanks, that's what I was referencing in my original post. In contrast w that, what I think would be interesting to see is a more in depth, direct experimental comparison with relevant variables like heat treatment etc controlled or accounted for between samples/actual knife blades. Again, entirely out of curiosity, not because I'm interested in declaring one or another 'better.'

Making MC a Salt is classing it with genuinely rustless steels, & since the steel's designer appeared initially wary of outright equating it with H1 or LC200N, I'd love to know how that story has developed since. Same thing with Vanax, would love to know more in measured comparison with these others. If I had the $, time, tools, and access, I'd just do it myself for kicks

[sal]

Hi Bleasure,

We do our own testing.

sal

[tonijedi]

The heat treat angle interests me. I know this is yet untested but curious how much difference would there be in corrosion resistance at 60HRC vs 64HRC? Would it be enough difference to offer magnacut in salt models at one heat treat optimized for corrosion resistance and offer it in other models optimized for edge retention and apex stability?

I guess the follow up question would be, how does changing the heat treat effect edge retention and toughness, and does that drop MagnaCut more in line with H1/LC200N and defeat the purpose?

Question is, are we gonna be able to chop nails like BBB, with this Native 5 Salt?

[bearfacedkiller]

There's a treasure-trove of good usable data on Larrin's Knife Steel Nerds Patreon site.

Thanks, that's what I was referencing in my original post. In contrast w that, what I think would be interesting to see is a more in depth, direct experimental comparison with relevant variables like heat treatment etc controlled or accounted for between samples/actual knife blades. Again, entirely out of curiosity, not because I'm interested in declaring one or another 'better.'

Making MC a Salt is classing it with genuinely rustless steels, & since the steel's designer appeared initially wary of outright equating it with H1 or LC200N, I'd love to know how that story has developed since. Same thing with Vanax, would love to know more in measured comparison with these others. If I had the $, time, tools, and access, I'd just do it myself for kicks

Corrosion testing is often done in a q-fog machine. I’m not positive if that is how Spyderco does it but that would be my guess. I also do not think they want to share their in house testing data that they they invested their own time and money into. That kind of data sure would be cool to geek out on.

[Netherend]

This thread right now

[Haunted House]

Ohhhhhhhkaaaaaay so now the next logical question is....


....will every model done in MagnaCut be considered a Salt model too? If for example Spyderco started making random non Salt models in H1, it surely would have people assuming the knife was a Salt due to the steel.

Are we to assume the Mule is a Salt?

Mule Team blades are only identified as members of the Mule Team; there isn't a separate Salt category. When the LC200N Mule was released, we acknowledged its extreme corrosion resistance, but didn't create a separate category for it. The literature for the MagnaCut Mule does the same thing--it acknowledges the special properties of the steel.

If a knife blade is made from MagnaCut, it will still have the unique properties of that steel, including extreme corrosion resistance. Whether it will be marketed specifically as a Salt knife remains to be seen. Those decisions are above my pay grade.

Stay safe,

Mike

If I may be the lone voice of descent-
I gotta say, I find it a real head scratcher that this will be used for Salt line when there’s already H1 and LCN200.
I definitely didn’t see that coming.

I’ve been as excited as everyone else for Magnacut, even planning to switch over to it for pretty much all my stainless knife uses.
But seeing that it’s gonna be launched as a linerless yellow handle Native Salt…. I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m probably gonna pass on the first release.

Hopefully Magnacut won’t be available ONLY on Salt models. That would be incredibly disappointing, and a real missed opportunity imo.

[Xplorer]

There's a treasure-trove of good usable data on Larrin's Knife Steel Nerds Patreon site.

Thanks, that's what I was referencing in my original post. In contrast w that, what I think would be interesting to see is a more in depth, direct experimental comparison with relevant variables like heat treatment etc controlled or accounted for between samples/actual knife blades. Again, entirely out of curiosity, not because I'm interested in declaring one or another 'better.'

Making MC a Salt is classing it with genuinely rustless steels, & since the steel's designer appeared initially wary of outright equating it with H1 or LC200N, I'd love to know how that story has developed since. Same thing with Vanax, would love to know more in measured comparison with these others. If I had the $, time, tools, and access, I'd just do it myself for kicks

My apologies. I didn't realize you already new about Larrin's site.

I am not aware of any better information available today. I would share it with you if I were.

The controlling or accounting for variables within actual knife blades is partly why Larrin's data set is the best currently available. The time, skill, equipment and money it takes to have every blade made identically, heat treated precisely and tested identically is extraordinary and it's why there was no such data set as reliable and complete prior to his completion of that huge undertaking. Thus far, nobody has bested it or even attempted to as far as I know.

Regarding your question about Vanax SC, there's a lot I can tell you about real world testing that has been under way since early 2018. But I don't want to steer this thread away from the original subject. In short summary, it's definitely just as corrosion resistant as LC200N.

[ladybug93]

it's a bold move to reveal this change while lc200n native salts are still in stock. the native salt is a good knife, but i can't imagine people are going to clamoring to get the lc200n version with magnacut just around the corner.

[Revival]

I’m curious on price vs the LC200N version.

[bbturbodad]

I’m curious on price vs the LC200N version.

It looks like the Native5 MagnaCut is replacing LC200N since they both have the same model#. Also, the price has gone up. The LC200N is MSRP: $186.00 Street Price: $130.20. The MagnaCut one is MSRP: $204.50 Street Price: $143.15 (up 10%)!

That's assuming that the MAP remains at 70% of MSRP.

[Revival]

I’m curious on price vs the LC200N version.

It looks like the Native5 MagnaCut is replacing LC200N since they both have the same model#. Also, the price has gone up. The LC200N is MSRP: $186.00 Street Price: $130.20. The MagnaCut one is MSRP: $204.50 Street Price: $143.15 (up 10%)!

That's assuming that the MAP remains at 70% of MSRP.

Gotcha…Thanks!

[ladybug93]

but lots of knives are going up 10-15% in the new year anyway, so it's hard to know if that's because of the steel or just part of spyderco's planned price increase.

[Evil D]

Hopefully Magnacut won’t be available ONLY on Salt models. That would be incredibly disappointing, and a real missed opportunity imo.

I very very much doubt that will be the case. As mentioned, there's more to a Salt model than blade steel alone, so for example if they put MagnaCut in a Para 2 (which sure as we're breathing air that's already in the works) then the liners and hardware would have to be on par with a Caribbean to achieve the same level of overall corrosion resistance. The Native 5 being a linerless FRN model, it uses less metal parts so there's also a cost involved with all the extra stainless Salt parts.

Another detail I haven't heard mention of is galvanic corrosion, which we saw issues with LC200N and the need for coated hardware. I wonder if that'll be an issue with MagnaCut?

If anything I would be concerned about the future for LC200N, because if MagnaCut can be "99% rust proof" then it rivals everything that LC can do and improves on edge retention and toughness, so it really feels redundant now. H1 on the other hand may stick around only because it has proven to be genuinely rust proof, so I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of Salt models remain H1 and the FFG variants start coming in MagnaCut. Then the only question will be, will the sales of H1 models stay high enough to keep it around if more people prefer MagnaCut, and that's not something Spyderco can control unless the sales plummet and they just decide to keep it in the catalog anyway for the few who still want it.


I'm pretty sure I just read a post where Sal said they've got some MagnaCut in their salt water tank for 10 days so far without any rust and I'd assume that test is still ongoing.

[ladybug93]

Another detail I haven't heard mention of is galvanic corrosion, which we saw issues with LC200N and the need for coated hardware. I wonder if that'll be an issue with MagnaCut?

i'm wondering if the reason for looking to switch is the galvanic corrosion lc200n is subject to when places against other metals. if magnacut doesn't suffer the same corrosion, that might make it much easier to work with in designs. and, if that's the case, i bet that's a good trade-off from a production standpoint.

[Evil D]

Another detail I haven't heard mention of is galvanic corrosion, which we saw issues with LC200N and the need for coated hardware. I wonder if that'll be an issue with MagnaCut?

i'm wondering if the reason for looking to switch is the galvanic corrosion lc200n is subject to when places against other metals. if magnacut doesn't suffer the same corrosion, that might make it much easier to work with in designs. and, if that's the case, i bet that's a good trade-off from a production standpoint.

You know what happens when you assume right?