Native 5 salt is Magnacut?

[ladybug93]

I wonder if this could potentially hurt MagnaCut's reputation

more for us!

[JRinFL]

Remember, Sal’s comments are in relation to Salt knives which must resist corrosion, including galvanic, in far more hostile environment than most pocket knives will see. Let’s not read too much into any possible issues with MC.

[gdwtvb]

This discussion about the lock material not playing nice with MagnaCut makes me wonder what other companies are doing right or wrong in regards to this. I keep seeing other brands crank out MagnaCut knives and I wonder what they're doing with the heat treat and the lock steel relationship. It does give the impression that they're just pushing out the steel for the sake of sales and in the long run I wonder if this could potentially hurt MagnaCut's reputation if these knives are making it out into the world with less than great heat treat and such.

That's been my concern as well. I also have the thought that Spyderco is selling this as a salt knife and maybe the problem is similar to the issues with lc200n and galvanic corrosion. I've been itching for a magnacut knife to try out the steel and I trust Spyderco to a better heat treat and final product more than most other manufacturers.

I also want a fixed blade, but again, I am picky. The manufacturers I trust that make them are out of my price range, not styles that appeal to me, and/or sold out when I am ready to order. I will get the first Spyderco magnacut folder to hit the market, and while I like thge N5, I would like the teased manix lightweight even more. Probably end up with both eventually.

A premium bow river in magnacut would be a sweet surprise from Sal and gang!

Grizz

[Evil D]

This discussion about the lock material not playing nice with MagnaCut makes me wonder what other companies are doing right or wrong in regards to this. I keep seeing other brands crank out MagnaCut knives and I wonder what they're doing with the heat treat and the lock steel relationship. It does give the impression that they're just pushing out the steel for the sake of sales and in the long run I wonder if this could potentially hurt MagnaCut's reputation if these knives are making it out into the world with less than great heat treat and such.

That's been my concern as well. I also have the thought that Spyderco is selling this as a salt knife and maybe the problem is similar to the issues with lc200n and galvanic corrosion. I've been itching for a magnacut knife to try out the steel and I trust Spyderco to a better heat treat and final product more than most other manufacturers.

I also want a fixed blade, but again, I am picky. The manufacturers I trust that make them are out of my price range, not styles that appeal to me, and/or sold out when I am ready to order. I will get the first Spyderco magnacut folder to hit the market, and while I like thge N5, I would like the teased manix lightweight even more. Probably end up with both eventually.

A premium bow river in magnacut would be a sweet surprise from Sal and gang!

Grizz

I can highly recommend Big Chris for a MagnaCut fixie, but as you said they may be a little spendy for your budget. I do think he's pushing heat treat to the higher end though and his knives are very slicer oriented.


I also really like my MagnaCut mule, I'm sure those can still be bought somewhere at some price. It may also be that these mules were ran at a softer than optimal heat treat though, if they're going to such lengths to tweak it for the folders. As you said though this may have more to do with the Salt aspect than edge performance but it will ultimately effect it just the same.

[ladybug93]

i've been taking and using my magnacut mule on hikes. whatever they did with it has been good enough for me, especially for an outdoor blade. i love it.

[skeeg11]

In the current economic environment my knife spending will be extremely curtailed. About the only thing I can think of at the moment that will get me to open up my wallet is a "slicey" Magnacut folder.

[warriorsociologist]

In the current economic environment my knife spending will be extremely curtailed. About the only thing I can think of at the moment that will get me to open up my wallet is a "slicey" Magnacut folder.

Make that a linerless Stretch 2 SS in Magnacut for me! *one can dream!*

[salimoneus]

This discussion about the lock material not playing nice with MagnaCut makes me wonder what other companies are doing right or wrong in regards to this. I keep seeing other brands crank out MagnaCut knives and I wonder what they're doing with the heat treat and the lock steel relationship. It does give the impression that they're just pushing out the steel for the sake of sales and in the long run I wonder if this could potentially hurt MagnaCut's reputation if these knives are making it out into the world with less than great heat treat and such.

I would say this is likely the case for the most part, although the vast majority of the Magnacut knives released that I've seen have been fixed blades, not that many folders iirc.

[cjk]

Remember, Sal’s comments are in relation to Salt knives which must resist corrosion, including galvanic, in far more hostile environment than most pocket knives will see. Let’s not read too much into any possible issues with MC.

Quoted because this bears repeating.

[Evil D]

For the record all I'm reading into is what other companies may or may not be doing in regards to the issues Spyderco are seeing, which themselves may be less of an issue if those companies aren't trying to make Salt worthy knives. This in no way implies that there are problems with the steel itself, it's a production method concern and not a direct concern about the steel itself.

[Freediver]

Is there any chance of getting these before Christmas? They would make excellent gifts for my diver friends.

[Guts]

Might need to grab one of these Magnacut Native 5's for my dad whenever they get released. Or one of the LC200N Salt models. He always finds a way to rust any pocket knife I give him

[Manixguy@1994]

Remember, Sal’s comments are in relation to Salt knives which must resist corrosion, including galvanic, in far more hostile environment than most pocket knives will see. Let’s not read too much into any possible issues with MC.

Quoted because this bears repeating.

Yes ! I will be patient and willing to wait for the Manix for however long it takes . MG2

[RamZar]

Might need to grab one of these Magnacut Native 5's for my dad whenever they get released. Or one of the LC200N Salt models. He always finds a way to rust any pocket knife I give him

Native5 Salt LC200N Green FRN is a good substitute and you have a choice of PlainEdge™ and SpyderEdge™.

[Guts]

Might need to grab one of these Magnacut Native 5's for my dad whenever they get released. Or one of the LC200N Salt models. He always finds a way to rust any pocket knife I give him

Native5 Salt LC200N Green FRN is a good substitute and you have a choice of PlainEdge™ and SpyderEdge™.

Totally forgot that model existed. I'll have to keep that in mind for sure.

[RamZar]

Might need to grab one of these Magnacut Native 5's for my dad whenever they get released. Or one of the LC200N Salt models. He always finds a way to rust any pocket knife I give him

Native5 Salt LC200N Green FRN is a good substitute and you have a choice of PlainEdge™ and SpyderEdge™.

Totally forgot that model existed. I'll have to keep that in mind for sure.

The Native5 Salt LC200N PlainEdge & SpyderEdge Green FRN have been in stock at dealers since mid-September 2022.

[Deadboxhero]

FYI, We've got the heat treat of the MagnaCut blade down, thanx to Shawn and Larrin. the holdup is finding the best lock material to work with the blade. we've already nixed 2 different materials and we're now testing the 3rd.

sal

How often do you run into problems with blade and lock steels not working together, and in what ways do they not work? This is probably a detail that many of us have never considered (I certainly haven't). I'm assuming this is an issue with all locks? Is it more of an issue with some locks than others? Very interesting topic.

Ditto to all that!

Also, is the Heat Treat now geared more towards Toughness, Edge Retention or Corrosion Resistance? Will the Native5 with MagnaCut still be considered part of the Salt series?

The goal was to maximize the edge stability.

Testing was done between different heat treatment conditions to find the best compromises.

The stainlessness and toughness have more to do with the features of the steel design itself for the most part.

So, the objective was to get the edge to apex and deburr properly and have decent resistance to deformation with very thin edges. This will increase the edge performance in real world use.

Remember, If the microstructure can support a thin edge then it will do just fine with a thicker edge, however the opposite is not true.


HRC doesn't tell the full story due to the composite nature of the microstructure not being all the same hardness if you look at all the individual phases and constituents.

So, thats one reason why sharing HRC values can be misleading, it really depends on the heat treatment and the microstructure thats created.

So, the objective was not about trying to achieve the highest hardness possible.


I had a good discussion with Eric Glesser back in January at Shot Show 2022 about completely overhauling the MagnaCut heat treatment, I got a opportunity to test the MagnaCut Mules and MagnaCut PM2 and I shared directly with Spyderco what I felt could be improved.

For those that don't know me, I have had the privilege of getting early access to MagnaCut in 2021 and have gotten a lot of experience fine tuning to test its capabilities in a custom knife setting.

I was given complete access to Spyderco's treatment facility, we ran tests to make sure the heat treatment protocol was in agreement between different equipment and hardness testing.
Difficult decisions had to be made. Over the summer things were narrowed down to a few conditions and a clear winner was found.



I feel the future of heat treating in the knife industry will be focusing more on microstructure not just rockwell hardness.

[Evil D]

Thin edge stability is the song of my people. Sounds like this will be WELL worth the wait.

[Woodpuppy]

Thanks for the inside scoop DBH! With a new steel I much prefer that Spyderco go to these lengths to optimize it before rushing to production. This is the downside inherent in the general public knowing about a new steel during its development; gotta stay patient!!

[Gtscotty]

FYI, We've got the heat treat of the MagnaCut blade down, thanx to Shawn and Larrin. the holdup is finding the best lock material to work with the blade. we've already nixed 2 different materials and we're now testing the 3rd.

sal

How often do you run into problems with blade and lock steels not working together, and in what ways do they not work? This is probably a detail that many of us have never considered (I certainly haven't). I'm assuming this is an issue with all locks? Is it more of an issue with some locks than others? Very interesting topic.

Ditto to all that!

Also, is the Heat Treat now geared more towards Toughness, Edge Retention or Corrosion Resistance? Will the Native5 with MagnaCut still be considered part of the Salt series?

The goal was to maximize the edge stability.

Testing was done between different heat treatment conditions to find the best compromises.

The stainlessness and toughness have more to do with the features of the steel design itself for the most part.

So, the objective was to get the edge to apex and deburr properly and have decent resistance to deformation with very thin edges. This will increase the edge performance in real world use.

Remember, If the microstructure can support a thin edge then it will do just fine with a thicker edge, however the opposite is not true.


HRC doesn't tell the full story due to the composite nature of the microstructure not being all the same hardness if you look at all the individual phases and constituents.

So, thats one reason why sharing HRC values can be misleading, it really depends on the heat treatment and the microstructure thats created.

So, the objective was not about trying to achieve the highest hardness possible.


I had a good discussion with Eric Glesser back in January at Shot Show 2022 about completely overhauling the MagnaCut heat treatment, I got a opportunity to test the MagnaCut Mules and MagnaCut PM2 and I shared directly with Spyderco what I felt could be improved.

For those that don't know me, I have had the privilege of getting early access to MagnaCut in 2021 and have gotten a lot of experience fine tuning to test its capabilities in a custom knife setting.

I was given complete access to Spyderco's treatment facility, we ran tests to make sure the heat treatment protocol was in agreement between different equipment and hardness testing.
Difficult decisions had to be made. Over the summer things were narrowed down to a few conditions and a clear winner was found.



I feel the future of heat treating in the knife industry will be focusing more on microstructure not just rockwell hardness.

I hear what you're saying about edge stability, etc, not disputing better or worse, but reading between the lines, it sounds like production Magnacut from Spyderco is it's probably going to run a little lower HRC than the Mules?

Can you provide any insight on the particular "difficult decisions" that were made? As an engineer I'm familiar with design/production tradeoffs in general, but was curious of any specifics that are available.