What steel(s) would you choose? kitchen/general use

[kadinh]

I have my own preference of steel I prefer in the kitchen and general tasks and know the limitations of use for each. What inspired this post is my father in law. He has never had a proper higher-end chef/gyuto knife, only the Wal-Mart specials that come with 100 knives, sharpening rod, knife block, pull-through sharpener, a year's membership to "allsteeliscreatedequal.com", a link to a commercial from a celebrity praising how much they love the product, a lapel pin with a lion/eagle/rhino in front of the USA flag, a certificate with a "stays sharp for a lifetime* " guarantee^#.....I'll stop there, you get the point.

So, back to my father in law. He uses a knife the way it was intended to be used....aaaaaaand ways they are not intended to use. He has used the tip to pry things (who hasn't in a pinch), used the sharp edge to open cans and to pry (results in warping the edge), and occasionally/rarely chop bones. I know a cleaver would be better for bones, but he sees a knife as a universal term ("knife cut things") instead of seeing it as a tool for a specific job.

Anyways, getting to the point, what steel comes to your mind that would be best for his usage case? Obviously, toughness is the top priority. Wear resistance is probably 2nd. I would like to have a higher wear resistance so I don't have to sharpen it every weekend. I would think that he would wash it soon after using it, but it might sit dirty for some time and I bet he wouldn't like oiling the blade to prevent oxidation, so a good stain resistance would be appreciated. My first thought was 3V for the toughness, but not the class leader for wear resistance.

Is there a knife that exists with this steel? Am I asking too much of this unicorn that hasn't been produced yet? Should he just stick with knives with no-name steel? I'm sure there are compromises that can be made between toughness, wear resistance, and stain resistance to get close to what I'm looking for. I'm skeptical there is a steel that satisfies all of the qualifications I stated. So I turn to you, oh knife gurus. Can you guide me to the correct path?





_{*lifetime refers to the average lifespan of a mayfly, or 24 hours, whichever is less
^#guarantee is void if product has been used in any capacity and not kept in its original box untouched
lol, sorry I had to keep going}

[Bolster]

S45VN has a good profile for the kitchen, IMO.

Lots of people will say LC200N which is tough and resistant but needs more frequent sharpening. I think S110V deserves consideration among those who want high edge retention and know how to properly use (not abuse) a knife, but it does have low toughness. Vanax, if you have the cash. MagnaCut, if you can find it. For general kitchen duty, I think it's an open question how important toughness really is. Lots of chefs just go for max edge retention and low toughness because they know they won't be hacking wood with nails in it.

[benben]

There's a knife vendor that's always at one of the gun shows locally to me, great guy, love talking to him! On two different occasions he's had a Forge & Foundry knife there for sale, this is a small knife maker in Wilmington, NC. Both of the knives he had there had 80crv2 carbon steel, which I'm really not familiar with. He said they're really tough.

He said these knives are for exactly what you described....a kitchen, tackle box, cut a radiator hose, then cut a steak knife!

I work with guys that can destroy a anvil, and could care less, for guys like that....buy cheap and then buy another....cheap! Go to the next nearest gun show and buy 2 or 3 Old Hickory Carbon knives for next to nothing and your FIL will be set!

[Deadboxhero]

I have my own preference of steel I prefer in the kitchen and general tasks and know the limitations of use for each. What inspired this post is my father in law. He has never had a proper higher-end chef/gyuto knife, only the Wal-Mart specials that come with 100 knives, sharpening rod, knife block, pull-through sharpener, a year's membership to "allsteeliscreatedequal.com", a link to a commercial from a celebrity praising how much they love the product, a lapel pin with a lion/eagle/rhino in front of the USA flag, a certificate with a "stays sharp for a lifetime* " guarantee^#.....I'll stop there, you get the point.

So, back to my father in law. He uses a knife the way it was intended to be used....aaaaaaand ways they are not intended to use. He has used the tip to pry things (who hasn't in a pinch), used the sharp edge to open cans and to pry (results in warping the edge), and occasionally/rarely chop bones. I know a cleaver would be better for bones, but he sees a knife as a universal term ("knife cut things") instead of seeing it as a tool for a specific job.

Anyways, getting to the point, what steel comes to your mind that would be best for his usage case? Obviously, toughness is the top priority. Wear resistance is probably 2nd. I would like to have a higher wear resistance so I don't have to sharpen it every weekend. I would think that he would wash it soon after using it, but it might sit dirty for some time and I bet he wouldn't like oiling the blade to prevent oxidation, so a good stain resistance would be appreciated. My first thought was 3V for the toughness, but not the class leader for wear resistance.

Is there a knife that exists with this steel? Am I asking too much of this unicorn that hasn't been produced yet? Should he just stick with knives with no-name steel? I'm sure there are compromises that can be made between toughness, wear resistance, and stain resistance to get close to what I'm looking for. I'm skeptical there is a steel that satisfies all of the qualifications I stated. So I turn to you, oh knife gurus. Can you guide me to the correct path?





_{*lifetime refers to the average lifespan of a mayfly, or 24 hours, whichever is less
^#guarantee is void if product has been used in any capacity and not kept in its original box untouched
lol, sorry I had to keep going}

I'd say you're better off looking at a good knife than a specific steel.

Stainlessness is nice.

[resonanzmacher]

I cooked professionally in my 20s and my take is, the big name steels that people want for pocket knives, are better for pocket knives than they are for big kitchen knives. A high hardness steel is a different proposition on a small folding blade than it is on a big working blade; if you have a kitchen knife, the edge is going to fail with use, and the real question is whether it's going to roll or chip. High hardness steels tend to chip in kitchen use unless you are extremely careful, which it doesn't sound like your FIL is. Metal chips in your food is no bueno and having to frequently reprofile the edge to smooth the chips out of the edge is a pain in the ***. A less expensive steel is just a lot easier to keep razor sharp with a butcher steel and when you cook a lot, that's what you want.

I used to hang out at Drop where they sold a bunch of kitchen knives in bougie steels to college kids with disposable income who just liked the sound of owning something like that... and six months in they were all like 'my knife broke in half' or 'How do I sharpen the chips out of this thing, it'll barely cut'.

Honestly, outside of professional custom knife makers who are choosing a usable geometry to go with their steels and know how to grind it for the best and longest lasting edge, or end users who have culinary training with superhard steel knives, I think everyone's better off going with inexpensive high carbon steels for large working knives, barring that a high toughness stainless like Sandvik. Just my two cents though.

[Matus]

Blue 1 or 2, AS, 1.2442, 1.2562, 52100. A2 van be really nice too. Of course the all new Apex Ultra sounds super interesting, but I guess that it will be a while before it will become more widely available.

[tonijedi]

I never gift expensive or special knives to non-knife people anymore.. according to my experience it's a waste.
My suggestion would be something along the lines of a Victorinox chef knife.
I really like Icel knives, very similar to Victorinox kitchen knives but as they are produced in Portugal (where I live) they are cheaper. Probably they won't be cheap in the US, maybe not even available, but I'm sure Victorinox are available everywhere.

[Naperville]

I'd like to have a complete kitchen knife set in Vanax 8 or S90V.

[kadinh]

I appreciate EVERY SINGLE COMMENT that everyone made. Very good points made. Thank you

the all new Apex Ultra sounds super interesting

I actually have not heard of this. do you know where i can find more info?

[bearfacedkiller]

Geometry will be more important than steel choice.

If he is hard on knives but you want to get him something he can be proud of then maybe look into some of the German knives.

[Matus]

I appreciate EVERY SINGLE COMMENT that everyone made. Very good points made. Thank you

the all new Apex Ultra sounds super interesting

I actually have not heard of this. do you know where i can find more info?

Larrin was part of the team developing the steel and just published an article about it:

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/12/02/ ... ife-steel/

[skeeg11]

Although steel properties are influential and are affected by your uses, overall, I think on average, geometry is the overiding factor. For general use, old Sabatier carbon steel is just fine and dandy for most prep work. For silver skin, dense or tough protein or tendon, I find myself reaching for my 10" Boye chef. So for me it boils down to geometry and personal preference. What are the uses and personal preferences of the giftee and what is his level of experience in the kitchen and knife savvy?

[VooDooChild]

Vg10

[dsvirsky]

Check out Dexter Russell knives. They're not fancy, but almost certainly nicer than what your Dad has been using. The proprietary stainless steel takes a really nice edge and holds it reasonably well. I've never tested their toughness, but these knives are found in countless restaurant kitchens where you know they suffer all sorts of abuse.

[Alexander135]

My opinion here would be: whatever he's been using.
It's not the most exciting answer, but I've found that it's usually the case with people who use knives like that. I would certainly avoid VG-10, it's not very abuse resistant in my experience.

A good middle ground would be a decent set that is similar to what he's used to, but higher quality.
Rada comes to mind. I like their 420 steel. Most 420 seems crappy in that it dulls instantly and doesn't sharpen well, but their is a cut above. It sharpens up to a fine edge, holds it longer than any other normal 420 I've ever used, and rolls vs chips. Low edge retention, high toughness=low and easy maintenance for a non knife person or anyone who misuses knives.

This set would be good imo:
Rada Cutlery Starter 4-Piece Kit – Includes Super Parer, Cook’s Utility Stainless Steel Plus Quick Edge Knife Sharpener, Black Resin Handles https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G8ZMPVC/re ... GSM0BAPQ2Y

It uses a cringy angle sharpener that scrapes off steel like a rusted WW2 razor blade sharpens a pencil, but it will be something he's familiar with and will give a minimally viable edge.

[Deadboxhero]

My opinion here would be: whatever he's been using.
It's not the most exciting answer, but I've found that it's usually the case with people who use knives like that. I would certainly avoid VG-10, it's not very abuse resistant in my experience.

A good middle ground would be a decent set that is similar to what he's used to, but higher quality.
Rada comes to mind. I like their 420 steel. Most 420 seems crappy in that it dulls instantly and doesn't sharpen well, but their is a cut above. It sharpens up to a fine edge, holds it longer than any other normal 420 I've ever used, and rolls vs chips. Low edge retention, high toughness=low and easy maintenance for a non knife person or anyone who misuses knives.

This set would be good imo:
Rada Cutlery Starter 4-Piece Kit – Includes Super Parer, Cook’s Utility Stainless Steel Plus Quick Edge Knife Sharpener, Black Resin Handles https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G8ZMPVC/re ... GSM0BAPQ2Y

It uses a cringy angle sharpener that scrapes off steel like a rusted WW2 razor blade sharpens a pencil, but it will be something he's familiar with and will give a minimally viable edge.

Yikes, thats a horrific knife sharpener. Geometry on those knives looks horrendous but looking at the price it is what it is.

When It comes to vg10 it depends on the maker/manufacturer.

Tojiro does a good job as does Spyderco.

There are some companies they could do a little more R&D on their heat treatment.

[Fireman]

Bingo. If you don’t appreciate a good knife, it’s like giving caviar to a pizza lover. PS. I love pizza and hate caviar.

I never gift expensive or special knives to non-knife people anymore.. according to my experience it's a waste.
My suggestion would be something along the lines of a Victorinox chef knife.
I really like Icel knives, very similar to Victorinox kitchen knives but as they are produced in Portugal (where I live) they are cheaper. Probably they won't be cheap in the US, maybe not even available, but I'm sure Victorinox are available everywhere.

[Fireman]

Bingo.

Geometry will be more important than steel choice.

If he is hard on knives but you want to get him something he can be proud of then maybe look into some of the German knives.

[Fireman]

The steel and the knife has to be matched to the habits of the user. Getting a user to change habits is teaching an old dog new tricks.
I love my LC200N knife set but that is a $3,000 set and I am intimately in tune with them and know how to use the steel/grind. LC200N is impossible to rust and is tough but it is not stellar in edge retention. If you teach your dad to use a steel he could keep it in tune till you need to give the edge an overhaul. A mid range german steel knife or a victorinox knife seems the best way to go here. They can take abuse and ask for more.

[5-by-5]

AEBL