Heron by Chad Kelly ... collab?

[standy99]

I’m all for a folder…..

But that’s being cheeky as I have a fixed blade already made by Chad. ( or maybe 2 )

[elena86]

Now I definitely want a Heron. :)

Selfishly, I think I'd rather see the Heron as a collaboration, because that way I could get my hands on one.

The Heron does seem like a size with a larger market appeal to me. It seems like the EDC market is dominated by folders, and most people would put the Coop in the EDC role, rather than an outdoors role. Most people buying fixed blades seem to want larger fixed blades. I could be wrong though. I know several people on this forum who EDC fixed blades (myself included). It's just much rarer to see that in the general public, even where I live out here in the provinces (where seeing people carrying fixed blades--or handguns--doesn't really cause any surprise). On the other hand, the average member of the public is unlikely to buy a knife in the Spyderco collaboration price range for any reason, so maybe that's not an important consideration.

Now that you have a Coop I can understand why you'd want the larger cousin (Heron) too. I think I agree that the Heron might appeal to more people than the Coop, but it's hard to guess. While the Heron is the better overall sportsman's tool, the Coop is easier to carry and can even be dropped in a pocket...also small enough to be legally concealed. At the moment I'm inclined to suggest to Sal that we do a Heron collab but there's a question looming that you alluded to, it's bigger than which fixed blade to go with...and I'm struggling with how to answer the question.

The question is...do I suggest a fixed blade or a folder?

Spyderco is not Bark River. Spyderco's niche is definitely folders and not fixed blades....for good reason. While there's a good size pool of sportsman and knife enthusiasts who appreciate a good fixed blade, there's a virtual sea full of people who appreciate a good folding pocket knife. The easy thing for me to do is to suggest a fixed blade, as I have 10 designs to draw upon and I can whip up a prototype to send Sal pretty fast...comparatively fast. On the other hand, if I suggest a fixed blade now and it "dies on the vine" because of low sales volume I might not get another shot. I have one folder design completed (I've been carrying it daily for about 2 years now) and I have another one (a larger one) designed with milling and drilling fixtures built but the knife itself has not been built. Both are mid back-locks. The difficulty for me on those is that I'm not sure if I want to suggest a back-lock at all. That would likely lead to more demand for my custom version and frankly, back-locks are the most difficult build by hand and take more time than people are realistically willing to pay for. So, if I want to suggest a folder I may have to design another one right now. My brain is twisted into a pretzel over this right now. I got pretzels in my brain!

Here's my "Piute" that has been my EDC folder for the past 2 years. It's a Ti frame with marbled CF and paper micarta scales. This particular version uses all Ti. hardware, Ti back-spacer, Vanax blade, Vanax lock bar, Ti lock bar pivot and a special CF spring that I developed. The idea with the material choices on this particular build was to make it completely corrosion proof.





Before anyone tells me I misspelled Piute...I know. The native tribe is spelled Paiute. This knife is named after the mountain pass where I was backpacking when I got the final inspiration to complete this design. I was in Piute pass and Piute lake and had just caught a Piute cutthroat trout.

That Piute is a killer ! Super awesome little folder. It would be wiser to start your collab with Spyderco with a 3 incher Piute(or something similar) if you ask me. A folder would be the way to go. It would sell like hot cakes ... I only hope they will decide to make it in Taichung and to be a liner lock or comp lock... and ground as thin behind the edge as possible. Stainless steel please. Enough for now

[austrian_spyder_fan]

Chad, i love the Piute!
Best with the turquoise handles like the ZWear Osprey!
Another question, so you also sell to Europe?

ASF

[Xplorer]

Wise words. Your folder is sublime. I don’t doubt that you could not make an amazing folder collaboration, I would just love to see two rather than one.

Thank you!

[Xplorer]

I’m all for a folder…..

But that’s being cheeky as I have a fixed blade already made by Chad. ( or maybe 2 )

Sooo cheeky!

[Xplorer]

That Piute is a killer ! Super awesome little folder. It would be wiser to start your collab with Spyderco with a 3 inch Piute (or something similar) if you ask me. A folder would be the way to go. It would sell like hot cakes ... I only hope they will decide to make it in Taichung and to be a liner lock or comp lock... and ground as thin behind the edge as possible. Stainless steel please. Enough for now

Thank you Marius. I am with you on your Taichung and liner or comp lock suggestions. I have mixed thoughts about suggesting the Piute specifically because it's a back-lock.

I can honestly say I really love my Piute and it has served me very well for the past 2 years. But....BIG but.. I'm not so sure I want to continue making back-locks. At least not very often. After helping in the design of one, then designing 2 more on my own, plus building about a dozen of them I have serious reservations about making more. I'm extremely glad I forced myself to learn how to make them (thanks in no small part to our mutual friend Lance pushing me), because there's no other way I would have ever fully understood how darn complex they are. I love that I now have the ability to design and build one included on my list of knife making abilities now. But, building a Ti-frame mid back-lock like that by hand is exceptionally difficult to do, perfectly. I can't imagine ever being able to sell them for enough to pay for the time they take. Working that hard for that many hours to build such a nice tool for no money is ok with me a few times because I love what I'm doing. But, I don't see myself doing that a lot in the future. There are a handful of other lock designs that allow me both more design flexibility and the ability to build them precisely within a reasonable amount of time.

So, I'm working on something new for this occasion but I am going to give some serious thought to changing the Piute lock mechanism since it is an otherwise complete design and I have enjoyed using it for the past 700+ days. Thank you for your suggestion.

I have to say...I've gone with your suggestion on at least one other occasion in the past and found myself glad I did. You have a good track record in my book

[sal]

Hi Chad,

Gail says LC would work fine.

sal

[ChrisinHove]

That Piute is gorgeous!

It would look pretty darn good as a slipjoint, too…

Just saying.

[Xplorer]

Chad, i love the Piute!
Best with the turquoise handles like the ZWear Osprey!
Another question, so you also sell to Europe?

ASF

Thank you!!

I love hearing what people think is the "best" material for a handle. My favorite type of micarta is paper micarta and I made that Piute for myself as a "pretty" prototype for me to assess and make my final revisions. I think the colorful G-carta options are a great option for that handle. I also think a bright color like turquoise would look good if done right. Of course not everyone likes a brightly colored knife but, I do.

I will ship my knives anywhere that allows them. They've gone to multiple countries in Europe, North America, South America, and most recently Australia. But I should clarify up front...I don't actually take knife orders, (Gail Glesser requesting a knife is a special and rare exception) I just maintain a list of people who want one and as I complete each knife I give the first person on the list the opportunity to buy it and if they don't want it I move down the list. I sell just enough to buy more materials and continue my progress. My shop time is 100% about making progress and moving forward. I'm on a journey to be the best knife maker I can be and I have a lot of work left to do if I'm going to reach my goals. As I see it, I'm not even half way there yet.

CK

[Xplorer]

Hi Chad,

Gail says LC would work fine.

sal

LC it shall be!

[Xplorer]

That Piute is gorgeous!

It would look pretty darn good as a slipjoint, too…

Just saying.

Hadn't thought about slipjoint...but it sure would be an easy conversion. Thank you for the suggestion.

[RamZar]

As much as I’m sure a folder will sell much better than a fixed blade for your first collaboration with Spyderco it will also take much longer to bring to market.

One of your current small fixed blades would be great: Coop, Kestrel, Heron. The added emphasis on very stainless steels (LC200N, Vanax, MagnaCut) and handle materials which are all water stable materials.





If you do make a Piute folder all of elena86’s suggestions are spot on and I’d add a few: blade length of 2.99” to make it legal in more places, frame lock (or liner lock or compression lock), no lanyard hole, no extra clip holes. The current placement of the clip is great.

[ChrisinHove]

That Piute is gorgeous!

It would look pretty darn good as a slipjoint, too…

Just saying.

Hadn't thought about slipjoint...but it sure would be an easy conversion. Thank you for the suggestion.

I’ve often wondered why there isn’t a simple lock bar/ backspacer to slipjoint spring replacement for popular lock back knives like the Native 5, but just figured maybe it isn’t as easy as it sounds.

[sal]

Hi ChrisinHove,

Slip-joint doesn't need a lock release well. So to be "proper", we need to make scales with no lock release well.

sal

[Sildani]

Gotta say, this thread has been interesting. I’ve learned something about Spyderco collabs and how they get to my hand, so thanks Sal and Xplorer for communicating here.

I’m saving now for a Spy-Piute. It’ll be GORGEOUS.

[Xplorer]

As much as I’m sure a folder will sell much better than a fixed blade for your first collaboration with Spyderco it will also take much longer to bring to market.

One of your current small fixed blades would be great: Coop, Kestrel, Heron. The added emphasis on very stainless steels (LC200N, Vanax, MagnaCut) and handle materials which are all water stable materials.

If you do make a Piute folder all of elena86’s suggestions are spot on and I’d add a few: blade length of 2.99” to make it legal in more places, frame lock (or liner lock or compression lock), no lanyard hole, no extra clip holes. The current placement of the clip is great.

Thank you. I appreciate your input very much!

I am leaning toward the folding knife direction because it's what Spyderco does best and it's the more challenging way to go. I prefer to take the challenging route.

You and I share many of the same views about how a folder should be set up and carried but people get kinda' heated about clip issues so I don't want to comment on that at this point.

At the moment I'm deliberating (with myself ) between adapting the Piute into a compression lock design or creating a folding Heron linerlock that's about 90+% the size of the fixed Heron (giving it a 3"blade). I made a very rough wood model today so that I could feel it in 3D in my hand. I've already made 2D models to work out the pivot location and a smooth closed position. The geometry of the folding actually came together easier than I expected.



I'll keep working on it and wherever this goes I will do everything I can to ensure the knife Spyderco ultimately offers represent my best possible work.

[Ngati Pom]

Have you considered making a fixed blade with the Piute silhouette?
It’s such a nice looking knife.

[Xplorer]

Have you considered making a fixed blade with the Piute silhouette?
It’s such a nice looking knife.

Thank you.

The Piute is originally derived from my first compact fixed EDC design I call the Tolokot.



But I was never quite happy with it. As time passed I would mess with it for while, and then hang it back on the wall..then mess with it again ..etc and it changed a lot over about two years. Eventually it had become something totally different from the Tolokot. Using the Piute then influenced my thinking while designing the Coop, which influenced the Heron, etc.. it's all connected one way or another.

[sal]

It certainly is a beautiful piece, Chad. What is the blade length from the handle to the tip?

sal

[Xplorer]

Thank you Sal. From the handle to tip is 2 5/8".