TomAiello wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:41 am
JSumm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:43 pm
RamZar wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:03 pm
When
Larrin did a corrosion test of various stainless steels Vanax and LC200N did best with a score of 10 (H1 would be a 10 as well). Next was MagnaCut (New Steel) at 9.5 and then 20CV at 9.
I like 20CV/M390/204P a lot for small folders because of superior edge retention and corrosion resistance. It’s not as tough or corrosion resistant as LC200N or MagnaCut or Vanax but it has better edge retention and a good overall compromise.
I use my 20cv knives if I do not want to worry about corrosion. They are my Salt wannabes.
s110v is good for that too. And it holds an edge forever. It's more fragile than m390 or s90v in my experience though.
Chad, have you thought about s90v for your collaboration? It has a good balance of properties for a fixed blade, but won't break the bank like Vanax, and is currently more available than Magnacut. It doesn't have the new shiny factor though, so it might hurt sales.
Hi Tom,
Thank you for your suggestion. I have not considered S90V.
First, I find S110V somewhat interesting because it is the most stainless of all of the extreme wear resistance steels and that unique combination of characteristics makes it a great choice for the right application. For me S110V is the kind of steel that is ideally suited for making a high-end set of kitchen knives, most small folder designs and traditional slipjoints. I personally don't see it a great choice for many "sportsman" type fixed blades as I believe a more balanced set of properties (more toughness in this case) would be more ideal for the range of uses such a knife might be subjected to. So, within my designs S110V would be fine for my folders and not for my fixed blades IMO.
S90V has never interested me, but that's more about me than the steel. I own 2 S90V knives and I have never made a knife with S90V. I know it's a good steel and it's relatively low cost. It certainly has fantastic wear resistance too. But, it's also one of those stainless steels that isn't much more stainless than some high alloy non-stainless steels. ZDP-189 and CTS-XHP are similar in that regard but between those 3 I personally prefer the edge characteristics of ZDP over the other 2. If I was to consider S90V I'd be more inclined to just go with non stainless steels that I like even better like K390 or 10V. Any of them will make a great knife but if I get to choose, I'd personally rather have a K390 knife than an S90V knife.
But, all of those high hardness, ultra-high wear resistance steels have not been my wheelhouse. I like living in the middle realm of "super steels". That high-fallootin' stuff is Shawn Houston's jam (BBB / Deadboxhero). Even though I like some of those steels I think I should choose a steel that I work with and enjoy so that the choice is one that brings as much of my custom knives into Spyderco's offering as possible.
Here's the full picture of the TCC chart hanging in my shop (Larrin's data of course). Red is non-stainless, blue is stainless, green is effectively stain-proof.
When we look at the chart above we can clearly see that steels fall into "clusters" of similar edge retention. In the 250-350 cluster we see mostly older simple steels and other carbon or low alloy steels. Then there's a bit of a 375-475 group climbing the ladder to the next group. The 475-575 group is packed with lots of steels we all know and love. At 600TCC+ steels are less clustered and we start getting into what I view as "the specialists". Most of the steels above the 600 TCC level are high on hardness and low on toughness. All of them are unique individuals that are super-stars in their own niche but I think most of my designs are better served by steels with a more balanced mix of wear resistance, toughness and corrosion resistance.
I generally look to this "cluster" for most of what I make...
Whatever steel we go with, I will at least want it to be one with which I have heat treating experience. Unless I'm forgetting one, I have experience heat treating 21 steels so far and 13 of them sit in the 475-575 cluster. I can tell you that there has been no decisions at this point, but I am leaning toward Magnacut or Z-wear depending on which design we run with and how important corrosion resistance is within the intention of that design. That said, don't be too shocked if we land on something else by the time we get to the end of the process. There's a ton of factors and a few "realities" that could change things.
But, as I've said before..we are very lucky to be living in a time when we have so many great choices. Every steel mentioned here is a great steel and in many cases (not all) we're kinda' splitting hairs when we consider their differences.
Thank you again for your suggestions!
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
He made the prototype for the Siren, Mini Siren and a kitchen/fillet knife model that I have now cleaned thousands of fish with. All joking aside, there was no hoodwinking, we just got connected at the right place and time. I needed the help and he wanted to learn…everything. 
Thank you very much my friend! You're too kind. 
.
and got some stuff done 
and more designs are in process while we work to reach a consensus on which design to run with. 
