We need more Millie’s

[yablanowitz]

I’d have a fleet of Millies if they weren’t liner locks. I keep hoping this whole Millie2 comp lock idea gets some traction, but for now I’ll stick with my Native Chiefs and Police 4s.

I have to ask; have you ever tried one? I was skeptical at first, just because I’ve tried liner locks from a couple of other brands and I didn’t like them. Once I picked up a Military, I realized it’s completely different. My only regret is not trying one sooner.

I have tried a couple...

...I turned around and sold both within a couple days of getting them.

I think we have different definitions of trying something.

That's what I was thinking. A couple of days filtered through one's prejudice (literal pre-judgement, or "I know I'm not going to like this because...") is not what I would call "trying" something. But that's okay, leaves more for me.

[Wartstein]

...
What’s the concern with having a compression lock on the Millie? Honestly I’d try a back lock (but at that size it might get ergonomically awkward) or a CBBL (if that’s even possible in the design.) I’m in for anything except liner/frame locks.

As David said: This has been discussed extensively in other threads, so all who already know my opinion just stop reading here!

So, my totally subjective opinion, in parts very contrary to those of many others, but honest and coming from real use and experience:

- Especially on a large outdoor knife imho a linerlock works better than a comp. lock because:

+ It is easier to operate in general, but especially with cold, wet, greasy...fingers or with gloves: Larger cutout, larger lock"tab" in a more "natural" place (more on the bottom of the handle, where the fingers sit anyway).

+ The linerlock is (imo!!) overall safer than a comp.lock in operation: Regardless if one operates the lock tab with thumb or index finger: The knife always remains in a secure, natural position in the hand, no finger has to go to the top of the handle, the knife is extremely unlikely to get dropped, even with cold, greasy... fingers

+ Furthermore, especially in a blade with choil, the fingers are naturally protected from the edge, cause thumb or index finger, in order to even operate the lock, have to be in a position where the choil would hit them first and stop the blade, never the edge (for me even true for linerlocks with no choil, like my Tenacious
Now sure, there is the "fingers out of the blade path" comp. lock closing method! Not saying it is bad, and of course the fingers are safe (unless one does not take care and one or more finger(s) still cover a bit of the gap where the blade goes in)
But while using THIS method the knife is not overly safe in hand concerning accidental dropping. It requires an a bit unstable pinch grip, and often a little "shake" which actually gives the knife a bit inertia in the direction out of the hand. Not an issue at all in most scenarios, but in outdoors use, in a hurry, and again with cold or greasy, muddy .. fingers it could be

- Plus: For me a linerlock is more comfortable and ergonomic in prolongued, harder use: The comp. lock cutout is prone to create a hot spot in such scenarios, not so (for me) the linerlock.

- Last point: There are many mid- to high end comp. lock (and back lock!) in house Spydies already, but almost none with a linerlock. So just for the sake of having choices I think the Millie should keep its great inerlock.

[Nuh Nups]

Sal, can you please please please tell us if we will see a new military in 2022?!

It would make my day if Sal joined in on this thread and this question! I realize he can’t possibly engage himself in every thread but it seems like we’ve had a few threads asking this same question. I’m sure a Military would make a great Christmas gift for a lot of people. Even “just” the standard S30V model.

[Wartstein]

...

....

Hey Wartstein I appreciate the warm welcome! Yes I am the same Ranger Jon lol. I have been lurking the forums forever and figured its way past time to jump in and participate more. Thanks for the kind words on the videos too! I'm hoping to do a whole lot more soon. The Millie is still my fav and just gets better everyday. In the field its just amazing.

...

Nice to have you here!
Always a good thing to me when people with real world (especially outdoor) use and experiences contribute to this forum.

/ Btw (and off topic).: Just revisited your channel and watched the vid about the Crucarta PM2. I think the one thing you said you did not really like on this model gets adressed here viewtopic.php?p=1570247#p1570247 and in the following posts.

[Leeman1]

I couldn’t find one anywhere, been looking pretty hard, I had to resort to eBay
Did end up with a S30V DLC G10, but I’d prefer to buy from a dealer.

[Nuh Nups]

I couldn’t find one anywhere, been looking pretty hard, I had to resort to eBay
Did end up with a S30V DLC G10, but I’d prefer to buy from a dealer.

I ran into the same thing recently while looking for a Military for a buddy of mine. I checked locally and looked at all of the major online dealers I’ve purchased from over the years. They were all out of stock. Buddafucco pointed me towards a camo version and I decided to go that route. They are definitely hard to find right now.

[Burton Knut]

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I was asking about a comp lock as an addition to and not a replacement of the liner lock.

I’m a user, I’ve carried and used knives since I got a 3-blade electricians knife about 30 years ago from my dad. At this point I know when I know and I didn’t need hard use or obstructed hands to know at the end of the day it’s still a liner lock and I don’t like them however great their execution may be. Call it prejudice, call it experience, either way, same results. I like what I like and same for you guys.

Finally, and possibly most important to my “prejudices,” would be my preference for a fixed blade in any long term and/or hard use scenario. I love folders, but I love fixies too so I rarely need to push any of my folders into compromising scenarios.

[Wandering_About]

May the next batch of Millies be the current version, just made with MagnaCut, and may I be lucky enough to find one in stock. That is my wish for the Military.

[The Meat man]

Welcome to the Forum Ranger Jon!

I completely agree, we need more Millies! They are among my favorite Spyderco knives too. I keep hoping for a St Nicks CPM 4V, or a production Maxamet model.

[kobold]

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I was asking about a comp lock as an addition to and not a replacement of the liner lock.

I’m a user, I’ve carried and used knives since I got a 3-blade electricians knife about 30 years ago from my dad. At this point I know when I know and I didn’t need hard use or obstructed hands to know at the end of the day it’s still a liner lock and I don’t like them however great their execution may be. Call it prejudice, call it experience, either way, same results. I like what I like and same for you guys.

Finally, and possibly most important to my “prejudices,” would be my preference for a fixed blade in any long term and/or hard use scenario. I love folders, but I love fixies too so I rarely need to push any of my folders into compromising scenarios.

Truth is, calling a comp. lock Millie a Military 2 is a mistake and the root of the anxiety.

We are accustomed to see incremental numbers as replacements of a previous version. This can be Mk1 and Mk2, or like in software development v1 and v2, but in each case it is presumed that the new version supersedes the old one. Therefore despite Spyderco saying they wont discontinue the original, it is still a mixed message, because looking back at some previous examples, when the second version was a clear downgrade compared to the original (Mantra, Manix, GB1) - it is no surprise the idea of a "Military 2" is met with fear.

It has a comp. lock, just call it something else - Complementary or something.

[Burton Knut]

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I was asking about a comp lock as an addition to and not a replacement of the liner lock.

I’m a user, I’ve carried and used knives since I got a 3-blade electricians knife about 30 years ago from my dad. At this point I know when I know and I didn’t need hard use or obstructed hands to know at the end of the day it’s still a liner lock and I don’t like them however great their execution may be. Call it prejudice, call it experience, either way, same results. I like what I like and same for you guys.

Finally, and possibly most important to my “prejudices,” would be my preference for a fixed blade in any long term and/or hard use scenario. I love folders, but I love fixies too so I rarely need to push any of my folders into compromising scenarios.

Truth is, calling a comp. lock Millie a Military 2 is a mistake and the root of the anxiety.

We are accustomed to see incremental numbers as replacements of a previous version. This can be Mk1 and Mk2, or like in software development v1 and v2, but in each case it is presumed that the new version supersedes the old one. Therefore despite Spyderco saying they wont discontinue the original, it is still a mixed message, because looking back at some previous examples, when the second version was a clear downgrade compared to the original (Mantra, Manix, GB1) - it is no surprise the idea of a "Military 2" is met with fear.

It has a comp. lock, just call it something else - Complementary or something.

Fine with me! I like the comp lock and I like bigger blades, but design names aren’t a top consideration in my buying rationale. I don’t care if they call it a Pansy Cutter as long as the design works for me I’ll carry it :)

[5-by-5]

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I was asking about a comp lock as an addition to and not a replacement of the liner lock.

I’m a user, I’ve carried and used knives since I got a 3-blade electricians knife about 30 years ago from my dad. At this point I know when I know and I didn’t need hard use or obstructed hands to know at the end of the day it’s still a liner lock and I don’t like them however great their execution may be. Call it prejudice, call it experience, either way, same results. I like what I like and same for you guys.

Finally, and possibly most important to my “prejudices,” would be my preference for a fixed blade in any long term and/or hard use scenario. I love folders, but I love fixies too so I rarely need to push any of my folders into compromising scenarios.

Truth is, calling a comp. lock Millie a Military 2 is a mistake and the root of the anxiety.

We are accustomed to see incremental numbers as replacements of a previous version. This can be Mk1 and Mk2, or like in software development v1 and v2, but in each case it is presumed that the new version supersedes the old one. Therefore despite Spyderco saying they wont discontinue the original, it is still a mixed message, because looking back at some previous examples, when the second version was a clear downgrade compared to the original (Mantra, Manix, GB1) - it is no surprise the idea of a "Military 2" is met with fear.

It has a comp. lock, just call it something else - Complementary or something.

100%

Don't Sully the Military. Call the new abomination what it really is, the Paramilitary XL.

[Matus]

I am aware that there were lengthy discussions on the lock of the Military. Only one thing - nobody forces anyone to 'pinch grip' a compression lock to close the knife like a PM2. One may also use pretty much exactly the same hand position as when closing a back lock - and disengage the lock with a thumb while the knife rests safely in your palm. With a liner lock I need to rotate the knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely, I never considered that an issue, but I can not call that the 'safer' option (with glows, cold hands, etc.). I don't know whether I would prefer compression lock over liner lock as I have never or handled a Military, but I could not care less how the Military with a compression lock will be called.

[Wartstein]

I am aware that there were lengthy discussions on the lock of the Military. Only one thing - nobody forces anyone to 'pinch grip' a compression lock to close the knife like a PM2. One may also use pretty much exactly the same hand position as when closing a back lock - and disengage the lock with a thumb while the knife rests safely in your palm. With a liner lock I need to rotate the knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely, never considered that an issue, but I can not call that the 'safer' option (with glows, cold hands, etc.). I don't know whether I would prefer compression lock over liner lock as I have never or handled a Military, but I could not care less how the Military with a compression lock will be called.

You are 100 % right of course that one does not have to use the "pinch grip method" with a comp.lock (I personally never do, but for me personally the "fingers are in the blade path"-thing never has been an issue at all).

And I do think the comp.lock is perfectly safe for the fingers even when NOT using the pinch grip method!

When I talk about comp.lock compared to linerlock this is normally in the context that people feel the comp.lock would be safer. I don´t share this opinion (and said in my post that my own opinion is of course very subjective and in parts contrary to how many others see it).

So if talking safety of the two lock types on a very detailled level (both are safe in real life of course):

- If one uses a method with the fingers NOT out of the blade path:

The linerlock is a bit "even-safer" imho, since actually the finger that operates the lock (thumb or index finger) HAS to act as a perfect safety guard (at least on knives with a choil) in order to even being able to operate the lock (since to do so, the finger has to be positioned at the very front of the handle, where just choil or ricasso would hit the finger and stop the blade)
While if one uses the method with a comp.lock, so disengaging the lock with the thumb (and probably guidung the blade to close with the index finger) the first finger in the handle (the middle finger) is more likely to be a bit more backwards on the handle and by that a bit more prone to actually get hit by the edge.

-If one uses the "fingers out of the blade path pinch grip" method with the comp.lock (totally unnecessary imho)

Then
a) dropping the knife could become an issue in rare occasions (again, wet, cold fingers...) - and there are several accounts on this forum about this happening (Lance (Clinton) even said this was one of the reasons why he gave the Siren a backlock and not comp.lock)
b) there is a very slight chance that one accidently leaves one or more finger(s) covering the gap the blade goes in (and by that the finger would get cut even with the "pinch grip" method) - extremely unlikely, but to mess up closing a linerlock is extremely unlikely too

[Wartstein]

With a liner lock I need to rotate the knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely, I never considered that an issue, but I can not call that the 'safer' option (with glows, cold hands, etc.).

Why would you have to "rotate a inerlock knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely"?!
Honest question, I really don´t see what you mean.

I happen to still have two vids (links below) of closing my Tenacious, actually to show, that even with that knife that has a cutting edge all the way to the handle the fingers are still safe (and if you watch the vids: Imaging the knife had a choil like the Millie ! Perfectly safe)
But you can also see that I really don´t have to rotate the knife

https://streamable.com/nygr5m (Linerlock thumb release)

https://streamable.com/8z3798 (Linerlock index release)

[Wartstein]

Truth is, calling a comp. lock Millie a Military 2 is a mistake and the root of the anxiety.

We are accustomed to see incremental numbers as replacements of a previous version. This can be Mk1 and Mk2, or like in software development v1 and v2, but in each case it is presumed that the new version supersedes the old one. Therefore despite Spyderco saying they wont discontinue the original, it is still a mixed message, because looking back at some previous examples, when the second version was a clear downgrade compared to the original (Mantra, Manix, GB1) - it is no surprise the idea of a "Military 2" is met with fear.

It has a comp. lock, just call it something else - Complementary or something.

100%

Don't Sully the Military. Call the new abomination what it really is, the Paramilitary XL.

... Or PM 4 / Para 4...

[Wartstein]

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I was asking about a comp lock as an addition to and not a replacement of the liner lock.

I’m a user, I’ve carried and used knives since I got a 3-blade electricians knife about 30 years ago from my dad. At this point I know when I know and I didn’t need hard use or obstructed hands to know at the end of the day it’s still a liner lock and I don’t like them however great their execution may be. Call it prejudice, call it experience, either way, same results. I like what I like and same for you guys.

Finally, and possibly most important to my “prejudices,” would be my preference for a fixed blade in any long term and/or hard use scenario. I love folders, but I love fixies too so I rarely need to push any of my folders into compromising scenarios.

Hey Burton,

should you refer to my lengthy explanation post:

I did not mean to "ruffle your feathers" by any means and apologize if I came across like this!

I understood you would like to know what exactly some points of those, who want the Millie to have a linerlock, are, and so I shared mine (and stated that this is very subjecitve and contrary to what many others think, but also my personal true and honest experience)

Once more, and to be clear:
I DO like the comp.lock. I think it is one of the most ingenious inventions in folder technique in its strength and simplicity!
In my years of using knives I just came to the point that a linerlock works better for me personally, especially on large, outdoorsy knives (and I just happen to have no need for "fingers out of the blade path". If one likes that aspect, of course the comp.lock is the much better choice!)
And as always (I hope) when I have formed an opinion, I can back that up with reasons coming from my real life, extended experience. And this is what I was sharing, your and the mileage of anyone else might very well vary, and that´s perfectly fine. No "wrong or right" here.

I´d find it great if all who want a comp.lock Millie can have one, and all who still prefer the linerlock version can have that too. And from what Sal said this seems to be a real possibility.

[Matus]

Why would you have to "rotate a inerlock knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely"?!
Honest question, I really don´t see what you mean.

I guess I chose my words poorly.

What I meant - when you are using a knife for actual cutting - let's consider for the sake of the argument a hammer grip while cutting some cardboard - then the cutting edge is going to be oriented down & away from the user. Now you want to close the knife and need to disengage the lock bar that is located on the bottom side of the knife handle (since we are talking about a liner lock). Do do that you need to rotate the knife in your palm so that you can comfortably reach the lock bar with your thumb. This rotation is anywhere between 90 and 180 degress - depending on the details of the knife design and user preference of holding the knife while closing it. Of course if you prefer to disengage the lock bar with your index finger, than the rotation is not necessary, but I don't think that many users do it that way.

[Evil D]

What’s the concern with having a compression lock on the Millie? Honestly I’d try a back lock (but at that size it might get ergonomically awkward) or a CBBL (if that’s even possible in the design.) I’m in for anything except liner/frame locks.

It's the same issue I have with any other CL knife, in hard use the lock creates a hot spot in the webbing of my palm and I hate it. Don't get me wrong I love the action of the CL, I just came to terms with other locks having an advantage here and I'd rather have a knife (lock) that's comfortable when leaning on it than one that's more fidget friendly. If they ever decide to start making the CL with the button release like the Smock uses, so that the spine of the handle remains flat and smooth without that cutout, then I'll probably be asking for that lock design in almost everything. As I said before, the liner lock isn't necessarily my favorite lock but it's effective and it works well with winter gloves on and the spine of the handle remains full thickness and supports the force of your hand in hard cuts much better because of it. I even wish they had kept the back spacer in the Military because it prevented your skin from squishing between the scales.

Anyway to sum that up, I look at lock designs for more than just how they lock and unlock and I value how they feel during the use of the knife more than I value how they feel during the 0.25 seconds I spend operating them to close the knife.

[Wartstein]

Why would you have to "rotate a inerlock knife cutting edge up to disengage the lock safely"?!
Honest question, I really don´t see what you mean.

I guess I chose my words poorly.

What I meant - when you are using a knife for actual cutting - let's consider for the sake of the argument a hammer grip while cutting some cardboard - then the cutting edge is going to be oriented down & away from the user. Now you want to close the knife and need to disengage the lock bar that is located on the bottom side of the knife handle (since we are talking about a liner lock). Do do that you need to rotate the knife in your palm so that you can comfortably reach the lock bar with your thumb. This rotation is anywhere between 90 and 180 degress - depending on the details of the knife design and user preference of holding the knife while closing it. Of course if you prefer to disengage the lock bar with your index finger, than the rotation is not necessary, but I don't think that many users do it that way.

Ah, thanks, now I see!

And you are right of course.

And I should not focus on that "safety thing" that much... I do think that both lock types are really safe anyway.
I just always want to point out, that the linerlock is so TOO (and for me even a tad more), cause so many people seem to doubt that (and it can actually be true in their use of course, but some should perhaps give a GOOD (!!) linerlock a fair try over a decent amount of time)