A ''big'' question and challenge for Sal and Spyderco

[elena86]

Why are Golden and Seki blades ground so thick behind the edge(most are more than 0.024'' bte) ? It's not the case with most of my Taichung or even my Maniago blades. Why on earth most of my VG10 Delicas are more or less 0.028'' bte ? First and foremost the edge is made to clean cut or slice not to whithstand hard use or even abuse. I hate to give names here but I own a few knives from WE, Civivi, Bestech, Ferrum Forge or Manly and those blades are a dream to slice or just cut with... most are more or less 0.015'' bte but so is my K390 Urban or my Domino, not to mention my Chaparral. Sal said the edge is a ghost so it should be veeeery thin Before throwing stones at me I must say that this thread is not meant to criticize but to challenge. Just share your thoughts.

P.S Just to be clear, I measure my blades behind the edge after reprofiling at around 15 dps unless they came like that from the factory.

[araneae]

Warranty issues.

[Evil D]

Probably just to be on the safe side of warranty issues.

I'm sure they can grind them thinner, but when blades start snapping in half after people do stupid human tricks, all of a sudden Spyderco "have heat treat issues" and "Spyderco make fragile knives that can't stand real world use".

So, the other side of this coin is that a Shaman is also likely significantly stronger than many of those other brands.

But, to play devil's advocate I too wish more of them were ground thinner. I like both overbuilt beater tank knives and high performance slicers.

[elena86]

Probably just to be on the safe side of warranty issues.

I'm sure they can grind them thinner, but when blades start snapping in half after people do stupid human tricks, all of a sudden Spyderco "have heat treat issues" and "Spyderco make fragile knives that can't stand real world use".

So, the other side of this coin is that a Shaman is also likely significantly stronger than many of those other brands.

But, to play devil's advocate I too wish more of them were ground thinner. I like both overbuilt beater tank knives and high performance slicers.

Warranty ?! This should not be an issue IMO. What about the Taichung ones ? Most are less than 0.020''. I am not talking Civivi thin but 0.028'' bte like the Delica ?! Give me a break ...

[JRinFL]

OP, not trying to be argumentative, but are you comparing similar grinds or are you comparing hollow grinds to full flat or flat saber grinds? If done right, hollow grinds can be thinner BTE than FFG or Saber. As far as I can remember, Spyderco switched to FFG based on pretty loud requests from end users.

[Wandering_About]

I'd also like to see knives made thinner behind the edge. .020" is still durable and a notable improvement. .015" is very nice indeed, but probably too much to ask for.

[elena86]

OP, not trying to be argumentative, but are you comparing similar grinds or are you comparing hollow grinds to full flat or flat saber grinds? If done right, hollow grinds can be thinner BTE than FFG or Saber. As far as I can remember, Spyderco switched to FFG based on pretty loud requests from end users.

Full flat

[JRinFL]

OP, not trying to be argumentative, but are you comparing similar grinds or are you comparing hollow grinds to full flat or flat saber grinds? If done right, hollow grinds can be thinner BTE than FFG or Saber. As far as I can remember, Spyderco switched to FFG based on pretty loud requests from end users.

Full flat

Thank you for the clarification.

I too would like to see more knives with thinner stock as I try to never pry with a knife.

[Evil D]

Warranty ?! This should not be an issue IMO. What about the Taichung ones ? Most are less than 0.020''. I am not talking Civivi thin but 0.028'' bte like the Delica ?! Give me a break ...

Oh my bad. They make them thick specifically so that you don't like them


Really, I'm sure they have their reasons, and I would bet you every single knife I own that warranty is at least some part of it.

[bearfacedkiller]

We are knife geeks. We know better.

Have you seen how the average Joe uses a knife?

There is a high performance Delica in the works for us.

[Sharp Guy]

Referring to this thread I think it's kind of hard to generalize that Taichung knives are all under .020" BTE and all Golden & Seki City knives are way above that. I have a lot of Taichung models and I don't think most are under .020". I'll trying to take a closer look tonight and follow up later....

viewtopic.php?t=73097

BTW, I also like knives that are thin behind the edge but I have no issue with ones that are a little thicker. As long as they're sharp it seems like they go through cardboard pretty easily to me. So I like to check BTE but it's not really something I obsess over

[elena86]

OP, not trying to be argumentative, but are you comparing similar grinds or are you comparing hollow grinds to full flat or flat saber grinds? If done right, hollow grinds can be thinner BTE than FFG or Saber. As far as I can remember, Spyderco switched to FFG based on pretty loud requests from end users.

Full flat

Thank you for the clarification.

I too would like to see more knives with thinner stock as I try to never pry with a knife.

I am not talking thinner stock but thinner bte. My K390 Urban is thinner bte than my Chaparrals or my Delicas...just to give an example

[elena86]

Warranty ?! This should not be an issue IMO. What about the Taichung ones ? Most are less than 0.020''. I am not talking Civivi thin but 0.028'' bte like the Delica ?! Give me a break ...

Oh my bad. They make them thick specifically so that you don't like them

Never thought about this... you might be right

[crazywednesday]

What angle do you profile them?

[FK]

Fairly easy to modify the behind the edge thickness.
Lay the knife flat on a stone,,,, raise the spine about 2-3 degrees and grind away.
The kitchen knife guys call this "thinning a knife" to make it slice better, many do this before sharpening as a routine to avoid thickening behind the edge.
If you are only concerned about .003-.004" per side,,,, it should be accomplished easily.

https://youtu.be/twP_05UEHIM

https://youtu.be/3jsTtnidY3w

Regards,
FK

[elena86]

What angle do you profile them?

Read my P.S ... 15 dps

[crazywednesday]

What angle do you profile them?

Read my P.S ... 15 dps

If all of your knives are sharpened 15 dps, the only way to change bte for a given blade height is stock thickness.

OP, not trying to be argumentative, but are you comparing similar grinds or are you comparing hollow grinds to full flat or flat saber grinds? If done right, hollow grinds can be thinner BTE than FFG or Saber. As far as I can remember, Spyderco switched to FFG based on pretty loud requests from end users.

Full flat

Thank you for the clarification.

I too would like to see more knives with thinner stock as I try to never pry with a knife.

I am not talking thinner stock but thinner bte. My K390 Urban is thinner bte than my Chaparrals or my Delicas...just to give an example

[Peter1960]

Why are Golden and Seki blades ground so thick behind the edge(most are more than 0.024'' bte) ?

Because Americans have basic tendency to taller, fatter, etc.

[vivi]

Why are you using such a thick edge, then complaining about it to Sal?

I reprofile most my knives to 10dps or so. I think 15 dps is too thick too...........so I don't use it.

[Karl_H]

Aside from a few outliers, I think most Spyderco’s have a BTE thickness of 0.015 to 0.025in.

There is BTE database thread, which has a fairly good sample size.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73097

When it comes to edge bevels me BTE thickness, I would say that Spyderco is currently among the best American knife manufacturers.

Frankly, I think this is driven by several factors:
- A lot of Americans do stupid things with knives and then get upset, if the edge is damaged.
- Most Americans cannot or don’t want to sharpen their knives, themselves. For these people, rolled or chipped edges are a big deal, even if they don’t make a warranty claim.
- Most of Spyderco’s knives are made from relatively brittle steels which have high abrasion resistance, which reduces the stability of thin edges.
- A lot of Americans don’t want to be told what to do with their knives or won’t read any instructions that come with the knife (like this knife is not designed to be used for prying, scraping, batoning, etc.)
- Replacing a knife under warranty is a significant financial loss for the manufacturer.

I think they also expect people who really care about cutting performance to reprofile the edge bevel to their preferred specifications.