New Knife Steel Ratings by Knife Steel Nerds

[Wartstein]

Me too, thanks. A cursory look and it seems that I was right in questioning whether I needed an S110V N5 since I already have an S90V.

Spyderco's s110v has been substantially more stain resistant than Spyderco's s90v, in my uses. I prefer s90v for general use, but if I'm doing something where corrosion resistance is also important, I might opt for s110v.

Great point. One that doesn't apply to me since S90V is more than corrosion resistant for my needs and I'd prefer the toughness & edge retention of S90V or S110V. But other may find that additional corrosion resistance beneficial. Thanks for pointing that out!

Are there any Spydercos in S90V in the current line up (and somewhat available)?

[Karl_H]

As far as I know (just what I heard) HAP 40 is run "softer" than REX 45 indeed. They say HAP 40can´t be as hard due to the cladding with SUS410 (again, just repeating what I read).

Now, from what you say, being a bit softer could actually be an advantage.

Still: My REX 45 Manix LW seems to be really tough in my use (just like my HAP40 knives). Not a scientific measurement at all of course, and perhaps in the typical pocket knife use extreme toughness is of not much relevance anyway... unless it allows for more acute edge angles!

I have a SUS410 clad HAP40 knife that is nominally heat treated to 65HRC, which seems significantly tougher than my REX45 Native 5.

I reprofiled the edge bevel my REX 45 Native 5 to 15 degrees per side and have had a lot of chipping issues. I am trying to slowly increase the bevel angle, until I stop getting excessive chipping. Cutting rubber inner tubes and whittling wood did a lot of damage my edge.

[z1r]

The last one I got was a teal Native 5. Sending you a message.

[Henry_P]

Me too, thanks. A cursory look and it seems that I was right in questioning whether I needed an S110V N5 since I already have an S90V.

Spyderco's s110v has been substantially more stain resistant than Spyderco's s90v, in my uses. I prefer s90v for general use, but if I'm doing something where corrosion resistance is also important, I might opt for s110v.

Great point. One that doesn't apply to me since S90V is more than corrosion resistant for my needs and I'd prefer the toughness & edge retention of S90V or S110V. But other may find that additional corrosion resistance beneficial. Thanks for pointing that out!

Are there any Spydercos in S90V in the current line up (and somewhat available)?

S90v lil native still in stock at many retailers.

[jdw]

There is a lot of great information as usual but mainly it makes me want an AEB-L Military.

[Karl_H]

As far as I know (just what I heard) HAP 40 is run "softer" than REX 45 indeed. They say HAP 40can´t be as hard due to the cladding with SUS410 (again, just repeating what I read).

Now, from what you say, being a bit softer could actually be an advantage.

Still: My REX 45 Manix LW seems to be really tough in my use (just like my HAP40 knives). Not a scientific measurement at all of course, and perhaps in the typical pocket knife use extreme toughness is of not much relevance anyway... unless it allows for more acute edge angles!

I have a SUS410 clad HAP40 knife that is nominally heat treated to 65HRC, which seems to be significantly tougher than my REX45 Native 5. The blade geometry is different from the Native, and I only cut food with it, but I haven’t had any major issues with the edge chipping at 10 degrees per side.

I reprofiled the edge bevel on my REX 45 Native 5 to 15 degrees per side and experienced significant chipping issues. I am increasing the bevel angle, until I stop getting excessive chipping. Slicing rubber inner tubes and whittling wood did a lot of damage to Spyderco’s REX 45, when I set the edge bevel to 15 degrees per side.

[Gtscotty]

This was a masterpiece of informational article writing, you gave us window-lickers all the salacious charts and rankings we desire while at the same time slapping us around with some key knowledge on proper application. Thank you!

"We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide."

^ I've got to admit, this immediately drew H1 to mind, I've heard whispers of high hardness, but available testing seems to be more mid to high 50s... as for carbide content? I would love to someday see how H1 slots into these tests

[GarageBoy]

Are there any Spydercos in S90V in the current line up (and somewhat available)?

National knives still has that teal s90v para 3 LW
The cf/s90v native is regular production
Drunken

[Sharp Guy]

As far as I know (just what I heard) HAP 40 is run "softer" than REX 45 indeed. They say HAP 40can´t be as hard due to the cladding with SUS410 (again, just repeating what I read).

Now, from what you say, being a bit softer could actually be an advantage.

Still: My REX 45 Manix LW seems to be really tough in my use (just like my HAP40 knives). Not a scientific measurement at all of course, and perhaps in the typical pocket knife use extreme toughness is of not much relevance anyway... unless it allows for more acute edge angles!

I have a SUS410 clad HAP40 knife that is nominally heat treated to 65HRC, which seems significantly tougher than my REX45 Native 5.

I reprofiled the edge bevel my REX 45 Native 5 to 15 degrees per side and have had a lot of chipping issues. I am trying to slowly increase the bevel angle, until I stop getting excessive chipping. Cutting rubber inner tubes and whittling wood did a lot of damage my edge.

I reprofile all my knives to 15 dps and never have chipping issues. I whittle hardwood to test my edges and just kill time and never have a problem. I've reprofiled several HAP 40 knives but I guess I haven't done any of my REX 45 knives yet. Now I'm curious to see what'll happen. I'll do my Native LW first and then my Para 3 since I carry those the most

[bleasure]

having never taken the time to consolidate this info for myself, what surprised me on looking it over is how not only similar, but in a certain sense akin, ZDP-189 and 15V appear to be. i don't mean in composition, which is obviously wildly different. but they have interesting similarities in other respects. both have very high levels of carbon, with only a handful of steels like Rex 121, S110V, and S125V in a similar league. both have correspondingly extremely high levels of their respective carbide-forming elements, chomium and vanadium - higher than any other steels listed here (and low levels of the other, though this difference is far more pronounced). they appear to have almost identical toughness, and are conventionally hardened to roughly the same high level, ~65Rc. [edit - apparently not true with 15v on the charts at 63, i either misread this or saw that listed somewhere else]

without knowing anything concrete about their actual genesis or development, they *appear* to have potentially been the product of similar lines of thinking within given parameters - namely, seeing how far a given carbide-forming element can be taken in a correspondingly high-carbon steel

in other words, they stood out to me as akin in the sense that they're one another's obverse, in a way. similar philosophy, different ingredients, at the extreme end of where each element + carbon can take a steel in terms of edge retention.

[bleasure]

and then of course by the same measure, S125V looks hilarious. like it was designed by a flock of engineer kylo rens screaming MORE as they poured mountains of every element into the furnace

[nerdlock]

I so love the Mister Rogers vibe on the video, Larrin. Pretty hilarious. I'm kinda like Mister Owl sometimes.

[VooDooChild]

I know we are all excited for magnacut, but after looking at the chart, I think for my uses I may just stick with lc200n.

Im actually suprised how close they are.

[Gtscotty]

I know we are all excited for magnacut, but after looking at the chart, I think for my uses I may just stick with lc200n.

Im actually suprised how close they are.

I'm kind of going the opposite way, seems pretty clear that MagnaCut is plenty tough for any pocket knife use and has substantially better edge retention and hardness while giving up very, very little to lc200n when it comes to corrosion resistance. I'd kind of like to see MagnaCut in the Salt series, or maybe in a freshwater "Stream" series that combines corrosion resistant hardware with MagnaCut blade (and maybe liners, QC style).

[Fireman]

Magna cut is pretty impressive in the corrosion department and definitely makes a more sensible goldilocks zone of edge retention and good toughness making it an ideal steel for imho 90% of most knife needs unless you really abuse your knives and then it seems quite capable of taking abuse. A jack of all if you will with no compromise and great corrosion resistance. I am sure I will be quite happy with this steel. I just happened to have a long love affair with LC200N and will be happy to have Magna Cut in my harem of knives.

[Pig Iron]

Great article, thank you. Looking forward to experiencing Magnacut eventually. Though also strengthening my belief in VG-10 in a good blade + a Sharpmaker.

[JD Spydo]

First off I'm a big fan of our good Brother "Larrin". I think he has brought a lot of great conversation to the table since he joined our Forum. And he backs up everything he says with solid facts. I've probably learned more from him that I did from the two metallurgy courses I took at a local college a few years back. I recently ordered a copy of his well written book and look forward to getting it soon.

However I do respectfully believe that there is another way of evaluating blade steel. I personally believe that there really is no substitute for actually using a knife in your every day labors. And the results you get from actually using a blade steel also can be a great way to learn about and to rate the different blade steels.

For example when I got my M390 version of the Military model I was so intrigued with how well that steel performed in my every day duties that it became one of my all time favorite blade steels. There is something to be said about putting a blade steel to hard use and evaluating it by that method as well as the scientific methods I believe.

[Brock O Lee]

Great article! Thanks Larrin for putting in an impressive amount of work to bring it all together.

I was happily surprised about the positive mention of that old warhorse S90V. After all these years it still performs well at the front of the pack with good toughness/edge retention balance.

Sal was years ahead of the curve with the flagship S90V sprints...

[bigboned]

Hi Larrin, all this is awesome work and research and so helpful thankyou for publishing this to the forum.
can i ask is there also a guide to 'optimium' edge angles for given steels - i understand the correlation you discuss before the charts and understand the need for good comparison.
im wondering in my case for cpm cruwear would i get these reults more consistently at 20˚ dps over 15?
or have i totally misunderstood?

[Larrin]

Hi Larrin, all this is awesome work and research and so helpful thankyou for publishing this to the forum.
can i ask is there also a guide to 'optimium' edge angles for given steels - i understand the correlation you discuss before the charts and understand the need for good comparison.
im wondering in my case for cpm cruwear would i get these reults more consistently at 20˚ dps over 15?
or have i totally misunderstood?

No one can say what the perfect edge angle is for you. Try a lower angle and see what happens.