Tucson Tom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:04 pm
aicolainen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:33 pm
The fact that a capable locking folder is being dismissed and mocked in the same thread as a single edged razor blade is justified as enough knife says a lot.
I neither dismissed nor mocked a "capable folder".
I have on several week long backpack trips carried a single edged razor blade as my "knife" and found it entirely capable for every cutting task that presented itself.
It is often worth breaking out of entrenched habits of thinking, i.e. "I gotta have a knife when I am backpacking". I have been with people who were shocked that I didn't intend to build a fire while camping. "What the heck for?" was my response. There is nothing wrong with fires on occasion, but they are by no means necessary. Be flexible.
Consider also that a single edge razor blade is about 3 grams, compared to 70 (2.5 ounces) for a Native 5.
The saying among the ultralight backpacking crowd is that ounces add up to pounds and pounds add up to pain.
I wasn't referring to you and I'm sorry if I came across that way. And it really doesn't matter who said it or who's right, the point I was making is that people's opinions on this topic is widely different and surprisingly determined.
I enjoy many flavors of backpacking so I'm very open minded with regards to this topic and has been so throughout the thread. In my opinion everything from no knife at all and up to a machete could be the best choice for a specific backpacking trip. Experienced hikers who make extreme trade offs usually know what their doing. Beginners OTOH are probably wise to avoid the extreme ends of the gear spectrum.
As a more general reply to the thread and the tangent it's on;
There are several factors that determine the utility of a knife, some of which seems slightly overlooked in this thread; the availability of substance that benefits from cutting and reasons you may want to do so varies a lot depending on circumstance (distance from shelter/support, altitude, length/duration of hike, purpose/nature of the hike, season, experience, fitness, knowledge of the area etc.). Depending on circumstance there are often alternative solutions to cutting something that will equally or better serve your well being. And also, the benefit of cutting anything varies a lot with personal skill set.
I.e. picking the right cutting tool (or any tool, really) is a balancing act based on the nature of the hike/backpacking trip and your ability to utilize the tool. In simplified form one could say that the utility of a knife diminishes with altitude, unless your climbing. As you go higher there is just less and less stuff around you that gain added value from being processed with a knife.
Backpacking in a group, on popular trails and/or close to civilization reduces the risk of needing to stay self sustained in the case of an unexpected incident.
A knife is a very generic tool and can serve you in lots of ways, but it isn't always the best tool. Anecdotally I came to think of when Mike Horn's tent caught fire in the arctic and he barely managed to save him self and his satellite phone. The phone was only good at one single thing, but as he was standing there in his underwear, alone on the ice, I'm quite certain he was very happy with his choice of what piece of equipment to save from the flames.
To pack effectively one has to take a hard look at the different scenarios that are likely to unfold and pack somewhat specifically for those. It is somewhat of a gamble, but the risk is manageable. As with most things in life. Packing lots of generic equipment as to be prepared for any scenario that might emerge poses its own set of risks and drawbacks.
This last section segues nicely into skill set. An aspiring backpacker should pack a bit more generic and just in case equipment. In the early days of a backpacking career that's basically the antidote to lack of experience. Still the weight of the pack should be kept reasonable to compensate for lack of (backpacking)fitness and poor decision making that aren't all too uncommon in the beginning.
As one gain experience more and more gear can be removed from the pack, some gear is replaced with better/lighter/more suitable gear, and you also save weight by packing more and more specifically for the trip ahead.
The caveat to this antidote is to keep in mind that most tools are of little use if you haven't invested the time to use them skillfully. If you've never used a map and compass, it will only be extra weight in your pack. The same could be somewhat true for knives, the idea of using a knife for survival in some of the ways suggested is very far out, not only for the occasional weekend warrior, but even for most experienced backpackers. Making spears, setting up traps and that sort of thing usually pays off very poorly versus the calories invested, and that's even if you happen to be skilled at it. For most people it would be counter productive.
It's OK to favor the knife, this is a knife forum, so we are inherently biased. If you really like your hammer, you look for nails everywhere. As much as we feel absolutely naked without a knife, and often feel that bigger and fixed'er is better, that shouldn't prevent us from viewing other peoples priorities through an objective lens.