So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?

[Airlsee]

Double Post

[kobold]

Are H1, LC200N and Vanax SuperClean truly rust “proof” are just very highly corrosion resistant?

I think H1 is the only truly rust proof steel.

[kobold]

I am still waiting for them self-healing and self-sharpening nanobot blades! :-)

[The Meat man]

The top all-rounder? Probably Magnacut, or maybe Vanax.

CPM S90V is another good candidate.

[RamZar]

Are H1, LC200N and Vanax SuperClean truly rust “proof” are just very highly corrosion resistant?

I have no idea, but Pete from "Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" had some of the same questions and made videos about the observations.

Vanax Observation

LC200N Observation

H1 & LC200N Observation

Thank You.

Some observations from the tests in the videos. Laser etchings and other tampering with the blade accelerates corrosion in those areas.

Vanax is still top dog! I’d say LC200N next. Both near rust proof. Not surprised how well M390 did. Would’ve liked H1 in the same 24-hour very salty water saturation test.

[PeaceInOurTime]

*Corrosion proof* steels are what get my attention nowadays. I've never tried Vanax, but H1 works fine for me and LC200N even better due to being able to be FFG. I'm carrying both right now

[Evil D]

Not sure what you mean? Should I have quoted you and said "ditto" or something? Honestly I don't always read every post before I post. I post between doing things at work, lots of skimming happens.

Heard and understood. I quoted you, but was not targeting you in the quote, if that makes any sense.

It was more just expressing the same frustration that I feel like most of us have when this topic comes up. People look for the steel to be the end-all be-all, and that's just not the case.

Gotcha, all good.


I don't wanna give off the impression that I don't enjoy the chase for the "best steel", I guess I just realized that for me it's more about what's best for my needs than what's better than the next steel. I remember really chasing after what everyone thought was the best and never really being happy because I was trying to force a steel fit my needs instead of picking the steel that already does, sort of a square peg in a round hole situation.


Sometimes I wonder if people ever make the connection between edge retention and ease of sharpening. People often say they want a steel that'll hold an edge a long time because sharpening is a hassle, but then they also deliberately choose steels that are a hassle to sharpen. I realized that sharpening can be downright trivial with the right steel:use ratio, and then my willingness to do daily touch ups greatly increased because it's so quick and easy. Then when you consider that those long edge retention steels are being used for weeks at a time with a "working edge", I spend more time with a sharper edge in my pocket than they do and I don't dread using my knife because I don't worry about how much of a chore it'll be to get it sharp again.

[JonLeBlanc]

To me, 52100 is a steel that is super.

[aaronkb]

I gotta say, I just deleted what was maybe the most jaded and synical post I've ever typed. This topic always gets me, because if it goes on long enough you'll see almost every steel available mentioned. I really wish we could all participate in a blind test of 20 or so popular steels in the exact same blade grind/etc and really see where that goes. Someone on here recently said something to the effect of steels falling into ranges or categories where they're so similar to each other that it's so unlikely that you could actually pick them apart from each other in a blind real world test, and that really stuck with me. I just feel like so much of this topic has become placebo..."it's best on that bar graph so it's the one I like the most" when if you really used that steel vs 10 of the ones similar to it you'd never tell them apart.

And THEN you factor in edge angle, edge grit, blade grind geometry, and all those steel properties start to mud together and their subtle differences stand out less and less.

I dunno. This post ended up pretty jaded too.

I’m glad other variables that make a difference are starting to get more attention, but we do have more and more testing data showing a huge difference between k390 and vg-10…. And I can put my rex 45 knives through materials that I’ve seen just strip the edge off of k390.

[Sharp Guy]

For me there is no top contender. I can't really define what would put a steel on top. So no sense picking just one. There aren't really any steels in my collection that I dislike and none that I feel are really superior to the others

[on_the_edge]

I agree that by the time the discussion for the "top contender for all around" steel (or knife model, handle material, size, blade shape, etc.) is done, many steels will be listed, supported by many arguments. What constitutes the "best" that defines the top contender? Can two people even agree on what the best is? And if they don't agree, is one right and the other wrong? Never ending questions that perpetuate never ending conversations that never have clear-cut answers. C'est la vie I guess.

[Matus]

Are H1, LC200N and Vanax SuperClean truly rust “proof” or just very highly corrosion resistant?

No steel is completely 100% rust proof. It is just a question of what is the speed of the material loss in a given corrosive environment (sweet water, salt water, different acids, etc.). H1, LC200N or Vanax resist rusting much better than any other steel that we today call 'stainless' (what really means 'stains less'). There are industrial tests /standards where the steel is exposed to certain acids to measure the rust resistance, but I am not aware that this would be a part of the specification sheets (though I may be wrong)

[JRinFL]

I feel most people* greatly over estimate what their actual steel needs are for what they actually do. Way back when the majority of the population did actual work with their hand tools and knives, all we had where simple carbon steels. A lot of work was accomplished back then, a lot.

Now we have complex super steels that require diamonds or CBN to sharpen, and those steels are considered "not good enough"! Not good enough to cut cardboard or open a letter or to look pretty in a Insta pic? Any modern steel is a super steel, just pick the balance of attributes you like best.


*Guilty as charged. I still love my Cruwear and I'm really looking forward to MagnaCut.

[TkoK83Spy]

Rex45 for me. Fairly stainless if taken care of. I love it's combination of edge holding, toughness, as well as ease of sharpening and reprofiling. Another advantage...Most knives released in Rex45 seem to be quite a bit cheaper in price than other steels released in the same models.

[on_the_edge]

I feel most people* greatly over estimate what their actual steel needs are for what they actually do. Way back when the majority of the population did actual work with their hand tools and knives, all we had where simple carbon steels. A lot of work was accomplished back then, a lot.

Now we have complex super steels that require diamonds or CBN to sharpen, and those steels are considered "not good enough"! Not good enough to cut cardboard or open a letter or to look pretty in a Insta pic? Any modern steel is a super steel, just pick the balance of attributes you like best.


*Guilty as charged. I still love my Cruwear and I'm really looking forward to MagnaCut.

A few years ago on BF, there was a brief discussion about a fellow who had published a very small--I'll call it a "book-like thing"--that detailed something like 95 different woodcraft projects that he had done with a Swiss Army knife. Many folks were shocked or in awe. What a surprise to those who debate the attributes of the best woodcraft knife! Certainly some "bushcraft" knives cost a lot of money or are made with the latest, greatest you name it, but now a guy comes along with a $35 pocket knife made with soft steel, a tiny pivot, and handles covered in plastic and accomplishes something many never do. A refreshing reality check, if nothing else.

[wrdwrght]

I gotta say, I just deleted what was maybe the most jaded and synical post I've ever typed. This topic always gets me, because if it goes on long enough you'll see almost every steel available mentioned. I really wish we could all participate in a blind test of 20 or so popular steels in the exact same blade grind/etc and really see where that goes. Someone on here recently said something to the effect of steels falling into ranges or categories where they're so similar to each other that it's so unlikely that you could actually pick them apart from each other in a blind real world test, and that really stuck with me. I just feel like so much of this topic has become placebo..."it's best on that bar graph so it's the one I like the most" when if you really used that steel vs 10 of the ones similar to it you'd never tell them apart.

And THEN you factor in edge angle, edge grit, blade grind geometry, and all those steel properties start to mud together and their subtle differences stand out less and less.

I dunno. This post ended up pretty jaded too.

I’m sort of with you, David, but lead myself away by asking what combination of steel recipe, heat-treat, and geometry has Spyderco offered us that was not an “all around super steel”?

And, while I’m being contrary, how do we, the forum, know that MagnaCut is a super steel without being Larrin, Shawn, and Sal fanbois? Of course, the prospect is promising, but, c’mon, “show me the money”, people.

[James Y]

Not sure what you mean? Should I have quoted you and said "ditto" or something? Honestly I don't always read every post before I post. I post between doing things at work, lots of skimming happens.

Heard and understood. I quoted you, but was not targeting you in the quote, if that makes any sense.

It was more just expressing the same frustration that I feel like most of us have when this topic comes up. People look for the steel to be the end-all be-all, and that's just not the case.

Gotcha, all good.


I don't wanna give off the impression that I don't enjoy the chase for the "best steel", I guess I just realized that for me it's more about what's best for my needs than what's better than the next steel. I remember really chasing after what everyone thought was the best and never really being happy because I was trying to force a steel fit my needs instead of picking the steel that already does, sort of a square peg in a round hole situation.


Sometimes I wonder if people ever make the connection between edge retention and ease of sharpening. People often say they want a steel that'll hold an edge a long time because sharpening is a hassle, but then they also deliberately choose steels that are a hassle to sharpen. I realized that sharpening can be downright trivial with the right steel:use ratio, and then my willingness to do daily touch ups greatly increased because it's so quick and easy. Then when you consider that those long edge retention steels are being used for weeks at a time with a "working edge", I spend more time with a sharper edge in my pocket than they do and I don't dread using my knife because I don't worry about how much of a chore it'll be to get it sharp again.

That's been my observation, and I've come to the exact same conclusion for my own preferences.

Jim

[RustyIron]

So what's the current verdict on the contenders for best all around "super steel". Knives that have top tier edge retention, great toughness and yet still remain very much stainless, rather than "semi stainless" like 3V.

That's kind of like asking what's the best automobile, or the most delicious style of cuisine.

You asked specifically about stainless, and the only stainless knife among my favorite "users" is SPY27. I haven't used it a lot in a wide range of applications, but I find it's toughness and sharpenability to be good. If I was looking for another knife and a SPY27 model was available, I would certainly consider it.

[TomAiello]

The top all-rounder? Probably Magnacut, or maybe Vanax.

CPM S90V is another good candidate.

I own multiple EDC knives in both Vanax and s90v, and I honestly prefer 4v to either of them.

I think that until we see magna cut, we still need to ask 'do you need stainless'? before we can try to pin down an all around super steel. If stain resistance isn't important, I prefer 4v or K390 to either Vanax or s90v. If stain resistance is a criteria, I think I'd give the nod to s90v (great balance of properties). S90v definitely stains more than m390 or s110v, though. If stain resistance is the most important criteria, then I'd go with Vanax.

There's also the question of 'what is the chance I will abuse this blade? or just lose it?' If those are possibilities (which they usually are) then price (and the ability to replace the knife) becomes another important factor, so Vanax drops down another notch (as does 4v, which is hard to replace). That makes the regular production K390 (and Maxamet!) knives more attractive.

I guess what I'm saying is that for me, there is no clear all around winner.

[Bill1170]

It is hard enough to impartially evaluate very specific steel qualities with testing. Evaluating the “best” all-round knife blade steel is much more nuanced and cannot help but be influenced by personal use, experience, and preferences. In other words, there is a huge amount that is subjective, so don’t be alarmed when a clear consensus fails to emerge!

I’ve also noticed that hype creeps in. Newer steels show up with a halo that evaporates over time. I think it’s human nature to get excited for the next big thing. I see it in myself and in the forum posts of others. No judgement, just observation.

I personally don’t use enough different alloys to truly evaluate their properties versus one another. It’s difficult to do because most designs of knife are only available in a few different steels, and once you start comparing different designs, then geometry enters the picture to muddy the waters. The Mule Team program was developed to eliminate variables other than the steel itself, and I applaud it, but I just don’t use that size/type of fixed blade enough to do sufficient real-world evaluation of different steels.

Just yesterday I was using an old 8” chef’s knife in 440A that I modified by removing the beard of the bolster and thinning the heel to perform like the rest of the edge. I was drying it off and thought to myself that the 440A was perfectly adequate for my kitchen needs. It is very rust-resistant, holds a fine edge for a long-enough time, rolls instead of chips, and I love the knife because of the unique way it came to me, and because I made it better for my use with a simple modification.

And… I still look forward to trying Magnacut!