Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#61

Post by bearfacedkiller »

This is why it is important to inspect a knife right away and sort out any issues as quick as possible.

Once it has been used, sharpened and tampered with and enough time has elapsed it can be difficult to tell if the owner created the problem or not.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#62

Post by JRinFL »

If the warranty is this poor, then there really is no warranty. Buck treats their customers better, as does Case. If I were the OP, I would call and speak to someone in W&R at Spyderco. I cannot believe this how they want to leave it.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#63

Post by JRinFL »

Rwstubbz wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:41 pm
<clip>
Can you post pictures of the knife, please?
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#64

Post by Rwstubbz »

Matus wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:57 am
One think about those custom scales - they are all made for the G10 models that have different liners (and 2 of them). I am not aware of any custom scales that are directly compatible with the hardware from the LW Para3. If you have a G10 lying around that it will be fine, but if you just buy custom scales, then it will most likely not work. Do check with the seller/maker of the titanium scales you plan to get.
I hope you will get this all fixed to your satisfaction.
Yes, I discuss or at least hint to this in the discussion. It's difficult to read every single reply and even harder to reply to each one, I already see that I've missed some. I have several g-10 versions and will probably use the liners from the s30v one to make this mod. I really want to do more cutting than a bit of cardboard and really want to use it for edc. Since I either have to buy a whole new one or modify this one to not use the scales or pivot or whatever is messed up, I am going to try to see if I can polish the turd and use it.
Thanks,
Rws
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#65

Post by Rwstubbz »

araneae wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 am
Regardless of the intent, if you got a messed up knife and didn't realize it until after you had sharpened it and carried it, I would say that is on you. Might sound harsh, but you modified the item and used it, without fully inspecting it and then got unhappy.

Per your other thread posts, you also appear to have carried it enough to determine that the detent is weak enough that you received multiple injuries from it and stropped it after use and you also commented on it's edge retention, implying some decent amount of use. In what scenario would a manufacturer or dealer be expected to take a knife back that you have modified and carried to what seems like a pretty decent extent, but you claim arrived defective?

When I receive a knife, I look it over carefully, open, close, check functionality. If something is off, it goes immediately into the box for a return. I don't mess with it, try disassembling or adjusting things to try making it "right". A new knife from a reputable manufacturer should come out of the box ready to roll.

It is people who do things like carry a knife for a week, decide they don't like it or it has some small issue and send it back to the dealer as unused that create problems for other people who get sold a used knife with an issue. Maybe you got one of those, but you should have looked more carefully before using and modifying that knife. Buying stuff online means you are bound by the seller's return policy and customer service habits. Choose dealers wisely, a big shop like SMKW probably doesn't care about losing a customer or 100, they are just too big to care. Just my 2 cents.

And I have swapped g-10 and frn Para 3 blades without issue.
That's what I wanted to know thank you. As far as the rest of your post, I have to say, is sharpening a KNIFE modifying it? I cut some cardboard with it after I got it back from spyderco and tried to carry it after I got it back. I've sent back buck knives after years and honestly a lot of abuse and gotten a brand new one back. I was honest with them as i was with spyderco. It IS A Knife. They require maintenance and sharpening. If the knife doesn't come sharp enough for me I don't consider sharpening modifying a knife. But if you do, I understand. I'd be interested to hear Sal of Eric's personal opinion on this matter. Their representatives are just doing their jobs, but their opinion would be important in this.
Thanks,
Rws
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#66

Post by Rwstubbz »

Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:50 am
araneae wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 am
Regardless of the intent, if you got a messed up knife and didn't realize it until after you had sharpened it and carried it, I would say that is on you. Might sound harsh, but you modified the item and used it, without fully inspecting it and then got unhappy.
This is a fundamentally incorrect characterization of Spyderco's (or any other decent company I've dealt with) warranty policy. The warranty covers defects in workmanship and material for the life of the knife, with a number of outs in the policy that involve the customer breaking or losing the knife.

There is no gotcha in the warranty that says you have to find a defect in the first X minutes of ownership, or before you put it in your pocket, or else it's your problem now. That would be a pretty sheisty policy for higher end tools that I would hope consumers would roundly condemn. Regardless, that's not Spyderco's written policy.

You also mis-characterized sharpening (and later stropping) a knife as "modification"... which is kind of mind blowing to me. Sharpening a knife is basic maintenance, and normal sharpening doesn't void the Spyderco warranty.

Image

Check out the first line, where Spyderco's Product and Warranty cards cite keeping your knife sharp as "Proper Maintenance".
araneae wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 am
Per your other thread posts, you also appear to have carried it enough to determine that the detent is weak enough that you received multiple injuries from it and stropped it after use and you also commented on it's edge retention, implying some decent amount of use. In what scenario would a manufacturer or dealer be expected to take a knife back that you have modified and carried to what seems like a pretty decent extent, but you claim arrived defective?
^This is a red herring, if it's a defect to material or workmanship (assembly at the factory), then it should be covered, whether he just picked up the knife, carried it one day, or carried it a week and got cut because the detent is defective and the blade keeps falling out. Do you think that is normal to carry a knife for a week or two and it start falling open and cutting your leg? Normal wear and tear? Of course not, if the OP Wasn't intensively abusive to it, then it is probably still defective and should be covered even though he put it in his pocket and walked around for some number of days.

Sometimes consumers are their own worst enemies, I'm glad some of y'all don't have any input into Spyderco's real policies.
This post was exactly my thoughts. I sharpen every dull knife when I receive it. Also, I'm kind of a steel and sharpening nerd so almost every knife is not as sharp as I want it *when I receive it. I at least strop every single one. Only exceptions I can think of recently was a 20 dollar cold steel cuz what's the point? I'll sharpen it when it needs it bad, a tops and two d2 benchmade mini grip's that came from blade hq and we're super sharp. They didn't stay sharp long because of the burnt edge, but whoever sharpened those that day was doing the most.
Either way, this situation was like this, I got this knife model the first or second day that they came out. Blade hq, knife center, and SMKW all sold out the first or second day so there were none left to exchange. There was no chance to abuse the knife or for the manufacturer to have exchanged the knife with a messed up one since it was shipped out 1 day later. IN MY OPINION, THIS MESS UP WAS ON SPYDERCO. Given those lemons, I will make lemonade and use the bugger as soon as possible. I agree with you 100% and would really be interested to find out what Sal, Eric, of any of the other execs at Spyderco would say about the interaction. If I did something wrong, it wasn't sharpening it I don't think. I contacted Spyderco within 4 days of it being SENT OUT by SMKW which should be proof enough that I contacted them within 1 day of receiving it. It was actually the same day though. Either way, thanks for the post. Mods and pics coming soon.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#67

Post by Rwstubbz »

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:05 am
If both Spyderco and the dealer say it’s not their problem, I suggest opening the knife and seeing if it can be fixed.
Ya, that's what I wanted to do. Didn't want to mess anything up before confirming the lw to g10 conversion fit, but at some point this week I'll try it. Thanks
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#68

Post by Rwstubbz »

dj moonbat wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:27 am
I must be misunderstanding, OP.

Are you saying that you bought a new, defective Para 3 LW, and that in lieu of a replacement, Spyderco only offered you a discount on a second purchase?
That is correct. Here's the letter.
https://postimg.cc/NyxPdW9T
They said it's not a warranty issue. Honestly, I had given up on the warranty dept., But with everyone here saying basically the same thing, I'm thinking about sending it back in. I hate thinking that Spyderco wouldn't warranty against defects, but in thinking about it more, I don't see any way that the retailer could have swapped or sent out a returned piece since the model had just gone on sale for the first time the same day I bought it. I'm thinking I just got a bad warranty dept. Representative.
Like I said, I'd be interested to hear what Sal or Eric would say about it.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#69

Post by Rwstubbz »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 am
This is why it is important to inspect a knife right away and sort out any issues as quick as possible.

Once it has been used, sharpened and tampered with and enough time has elapsed it can be difficult to tell if the owner created the problem or not.
I contacted them within 1 day of receiving it. Do you think that was too much time? Would sharpening a burr off, then cutting some cardboard (well kind of a lot, 210 linear feet) and then stropping it be considered too much use?
I don't think so, but maybe it was.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#70

Post by JRinFL »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:39 am
If the warranty is this poor, then there really is no warranty. Buck treats their customers better, as does Case. If I were the OP, I would call and speak to someone in W&R at Spyderco. I cannot believe this how they want to leave it.
I wasn't clear, I meant call again to follow up as I find it hard to accept that Spyderco W&R wants to leave the impression that they cannot or will not fix a US made Para 3.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#71

Post by Rwstubbz »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:39 am
If the warranty is this poor, then there really is no warranty. Buck treats their customers better, as does Case. If I were the OP, I would call and speak to someone in W&R at Spyderco. I cannot believe this how they want to leave it.
I agree and have decided to do so after work today or on break. Here are some pictures of the knife.
https://postimg.cc/RWckgL4m
https://postimg.cc/w14VfL9q
https://postimg.cc/DS0Dw2Zz

And the pivot difference that I noticed.
https://postimg.cc/jw12BqLJ
https://postimg.cc/67mBpjwk
It's kind of hard to tell, but the second image shows a proud pivot screw that sticks up a bit higher.
https://postimg.cc/y3Xqcv4Y
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#72

Post by Rwstubbz »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:38 pm
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:39 am
If the warranty is this poor, then there really is no warranty. Buck treats their customers better, as does Case. If I were the OP, I would call and speak to someone in W&R at Spyderco. I cannot believe this how they want to leave it.
I wasn't clear, I meant call again to follow up as I find it hard to accept that Spyderco W&R wants to leave the impression that they cannot or will not fix a US made Para 3.
I understood your intentions, and I think that you are right. I should give them another chance to make it right. Maybe I just got a poor representative last time. If they still don't, then at least I know that I can use it in my modified titanium terror para 3 spy27 now. Enough people have confirmed the interchangeable blade that I'm confident in forcing the thing apart even if I break it now. Thank you for your time and advice. I'll be contacting them soon.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#73

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:37 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 am
This is why it is important to inspect a knife right away and sort out any issues as quick as possible.

Once it has been used, sharpened and tampered with and enough time has elapsed it can be difficult to tell if the owner created the problem or not.
I contacted them within 1 day of receiving it. Do you think that was too much time? Would sharpening a burr off, then cutting some cardboard (well kind of a lot, 210 linear feet) and then stropping it be considered too much use?
I don't think so, but maybe it was.
No, definitely not too long. Since you only had it for 1 day they should have taken it back. Most dealers would have.

Being used is a different story. Most dealers will only accept a return in the condition it was received in. At that point you are likely looking at a warranty claim but again, depending on the amount of use and the type of problem things can get tricky.

It’s best to do a thorough out of the box inspection and address any issues immediately. I realize however that some issue don’t present themselves until you start to use it.

I hope you are able to work something out. :)
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#74

Post by JRinFL »

Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:47 pm
<snip>
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
Thank you for posting the pictures. Attached is a picture of mine (same model and steel) and it shares the poorly centered blade. Blade centering does not bother me much, but I can see how it would for many people. In any event, I don't think the center issue is related to the pivot screw. I can run either pivot screw out or in and there is almost zero change in the centering.
Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 4.09.19 PM.jpg
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“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#75

Post by dj moonbat »

Wow, that is...unexpected.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#76

Post by Chuck James »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:16 pm
Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:47 pm
<snip>
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
Thank you for posting the pictures. Attached is a picture of mine (same model and steel) and it shares the poorly centered blade. Blade centering does not bother me much, but I can see how it would for many people. In any event, I don't think the center issue is related to the pivot screw. I can run either pivot screw out or in and there is almost zero change in the centering.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 4.09.19 PM.jpg
I think the off centered blade goes hand in hand with the cheap plastic handle...this has been my experience.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#77

Post by JRinFL »

Chuck James wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:27 pm
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:16 pm
Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:47 pm
<snip>
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
Thank you for posting the pictures. Attached is a picture of mine (same model and steel) and it shares the poorly centered blade. Blade centering does not bother me much, but I can see how it would for many people. In any event, I don't think the center issue is related to the pivot screw. I can run either pivot screw out or in and there is almost zero change in the centering.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 4.09.19 PM.jpg
I think the off centered blade goes hand in hand with the cheap plastic handle...this has been my experience.
For this model maybe, but I have other knives with FRN handles that are centered well.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#78

Post by Chuck James »

JRinFL wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:07 am
Chuck James wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:27 pm
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:16 pm
Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:47 pm
<snip>
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
Thank you for posting the pictures. Attached is a picture of mine (same model and steel) and it shares the poorly centered blade. Blade centering does not bother me much, but I can see how it would for many people. In any event, I don't think the center issue is related to the pivot screw. I can run either pivot screw out or in and there is almost zero change in the centering.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 4.09.19 PM.jpg
I think the off centered blade goes hand in hand with the cheap plastic handle...this has been my experience.
For this model maybe, but I have other knives with FRN handles that are centered well.
My native salt had a centered blade as well....then I started using it.

If I want the blade centered now......I bend the cheap plastic handle with my fingers and everything is centered...until I use it again.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#79

Post by Rwstubbz »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:02 pm
Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:37 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 am
This is why it is important to inspect a knife right away and sort out any issues as quick as possible.

Once it has been used, sharpened and tampered with and enough time has elapsed it can be difficult to tell if the owner created the problem or not.
I contacted them within 1 day of receiving it. Do you think that was too much time? Would sharpening a burr off, then cutting some cardboard (well kind of a lot, 210 linear feet) and then stropping it be considered too much use?
I don't think so, but maybe it was.
No, definitely not too long. Since you only had it for 1 day they should have taken it back. Most dealers would have.

Being used is a different story. Most dealers will only accept a return in the condition it was received in. At that point you are likely looking at a warranty claim but again, depending on the amount of use and the type of problem things can get tricky.

It’s best to do a thorough out of the box inspection and address any issues immediately. I realize however that some issue don’t present themselves until you start to use it.

I hope you are able to work something out. :)
I understand and agree about the "out-of-the-box" inspection. I hope that I am able to figure something out as well. I have bought between 25 and 30 spyderco knives between past and present and have only had to use the warranty service twice. The other time was actually an awesome experience. I guess I'm just used to getting a well crafted knife from Spyderco and didn't inspect it as well as I should have. I will be more cautious from now on.
Thanks for your time.
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Re: Is my never used SPY27 lightweight para 3 a goner?

#80

Post by Rwstubbz »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:16 pm
Rwstubbz wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:47 pm
<snip>
Also, the blade centering is terrible. Probably because the pivot is not tight.
Thank you for posting the pictures. Attached is a picture of mine (same model and steel) and it shares the poorly centered blade. Blade centering does not bother me much, but I can see how it would for many people. In any event, I don't think the center issue is related to the pivot screw. I can run either pivot screw out or in and there is almost zero change in the centering.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 4.09.19 PM.jpg
Yes, that's a great point. Like I've said before blade centering seems to be a problem with the compression lock knives that I've purchased. Usually when I get one that has bad centering, like my s35vn para 3, I loosen all the screws, tighten the pivot almost snug, then tighten the scales all the way. Then tighten the stop pin tight. Then I tighten the pivot until the blade is centered. The loctite should hold it tight. I have seen on blade forums that people try to bend it to the same side (when opened) that the blade leans to (when closed). I've never had to do that and not sure how much pressure it would take, but I would worry that it would not be good for it. Centering isn't that important to me anyway. If it's not perfect, I try to center it and then just live with it.
Thanks for your time,
Rws
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