I still love Victorinox SAK steel. IMO, it’s excellent for its purposes.
Agreed! Lots of people in the EDC/knife game don't understand that Victorinox steel is targeted toward the everyday person rather than the everyday carry person.
X55CrMo14's mix of softness to avoid chipping, high corrosion resistance and an easy to sharpen blade (seriously, you can sharpen it on a mug or strop it your belt to a decent edge in a couple minutes) makes it a great combination for the every day person.
We're never going to see a SAK in S110V, Maxamet, etc. because the average person would never want to have to deal with sharpening it or deal with the price increase from using such a steel.
Current Collection
Chaparral (LW, Stepped, Stealth, Sun & Moon), Dragonfly 2 (VG-10), McBee, Stretch 2 (K390), UKPK Salt (LC200N)
I still love Victorinox SAK steel. IMO, it’s excellent for its purposes.
Agreed! Lots of people in the EDC/knife game don't understand that Victorinox steel is targeted toward the everyday person rather than the everyday carry person.
X55CrMo14's mix of softness to avoid chipping, high corrosion resistance and an easy to sharpen blade (seriously, you can sharpen it on a mug or strop it your belt to a decent edge in a couple minutes) makes it a great combination for the every day person.
We're never going to see a SAK in S110V, Maxamet, etc. because the average person would never want to have to deal with sharpening it or deal with the price increase from using such a steel.
Exactly.
For over 10 years, from the ‘80s to the late ‘90s, my only carry knife was a single Victorinox Spartan SAK, and it did everything I needed to do with it during that time period.
I occasionally see posts in another forum on multi-tools, where some posters say that Victorinox needs to catch up with the times and change their main blades to at least S30V, or something “even better.” Ridiculous. Victorinox is the largest cutlery manufacturer in the planet, and they didn’t get there by being dumb and not understanding their market. Or what the best steel is for the implements and their users.
As far as Spyderco, I prefer a steel that is simple to work with, like VG-10, S35VN, LC200N, even S30V, and some others, over super steels that “hold an edge forever” but can be more finicky. I do like to try new steels occasionally, but I’ve become very picky about which ones I’m interested in.
I like steel. I even use knives in 8cr13mov. I love S30V, and have no problems buying more knives in it. My Beckers are all 1095CV, and they are stupid sharp and the edge lasts and is easy to bring back. Some people just are never satisfied. Sure, I like having cool steels too (Z Wear! M4! M390!) but I like the knife and how it feels first and foremost. If Spyderco made a Shaman in 1095CV I would have one and use the heck out of it!
That might actually be a fun knife to have...Sal, how about it? 1095CV Shaman? LOL
Real knife steel nerds appreciate the classics and look forward to new developments.
Well said!
I'm that guy who wants to try every steel option at least once, so that I know if its attributes match my preference... trendy or new aren't what I'm looking for. While I do occasionally get a twinge of FOMO when Sprints or exclusives come out, it passes quickly if the steel, color or design aren't ones that I'm quite certain I'll want to use regularly.
When I wish for S30Vs retirement, it's entirely due to the way it takes and holds a fine edge and the fact that it has only fair edge stability, not because it's "old news". Similarly my over the top excitement for MagnaCut, is because it holds the promise of being a blade steel that has a near ideal (for my taste) compromise between edge stability, toughness, edge retention and stain resistance, I feel like I'd be just as strong a booster for it if it was a 75 year old alloy that had been in regular production knives for as long as we all could remember (if, of course it *does* prove to be all it's been billed as).
I also don't collect with any thought to future value, so even the most promising resale prospects get sharpened and used.... Almost every CruWear blade I own shows scratches, pitting and signs of repeated sharpening!
I’ll defend the M390 comment…. It was WAY overhyped to begin with, still is, and only a few companies seem to heat treat it well. Spyderco is one of very few whose M390/20cv/204p interests me, but even then I’m much more interested in M4 and K390 based on actual experience using them. Very tired of companies trying to market a “premium” knife beating us over the head with this steel and charging extra for it.
The odd thing about some people is that if Spyderco developed a true light saber, in a year these people would not want to buy any new models because the light saber is out of date and not good any more.
Or they would stop buying them because they are waiting for the advanced light saber.
I've been there and understand it, but I'm backing away a little bit. I have more knives than I can use, in very good steels, so I don't need to buy more knives. Plus I get tired of having to sell some good knives that I like in order to buy the next big thing. So I might skip a few steps and just use what I have.
Maybe I wouldn’t be so hard on M390 if it wasn’t talked about as being the greatest super steel to grace the knife market. It has decent enough attributes but has some major flaws, and I don’t see it as any better than other available products within the tradeoffs available. The carbide structure and toughness are quite poor which is a result of its high Cr content from the 1980s era design. But the low vanadium carbide content for relative ease in sharpening with ceramic in combination with edge retention has made it popular. Enthusiasts are very focused on edge retention but are scared of sharpening S90V so that leaves M390 as the “ultimate”. Kind of strange how we ended up there.
I'm no expert but I've been lucky that over the years I was able to study some Filipino escrima and arnis, knife martial arts.
IF there was ever a light sabre manufactured that was affordable most of my knowledge would be useless. I feel that I'd have to study how to use a Katana or Samurai sword, definitely a Japanese martial art and keep the light sabre away from my body at all times. Knives are not nearly as dangerous.
Last edited by Naperville on Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe I wouldn’t be so hard on M390 if it wasn’t talked about as being the greatest super steel to grace the knife market. It has decent enough attributes but has some major flaws, and I don’t see it as any better than other available products within the tradeoffs available.
This. I think the problem is exacerbated by how the knife community has some very, very influential social media/YouTube personalities, and when these personalities run with a certain narrative (e.g., "M390 is the best EDC steel"), large portions of the community follow. But I suppose the same can be said for most any hobby.
I like steel. I even use knives in 8cr13mov. I love S30V, and have no problems buying more knives in it. My Beckers are all 1095CV, and they are stupid sharp and the edge lasts and is easy to bring back. Some people just are never satisfied. Sure, I like having cool steels too (Z Wear! M4! M390!) but I like the knife and how it feels first and foremost. If Spyderco made a Shaman in 1095CV I would have one and use the heck out of it!
That might actually be a fun knife to have...Sal, how about it? 1095CV Shaman? LOL
No lie, I’d be down for a 1095 Shaman. We’d all be surprised at its performance and how inexpensive it would be compared to steel du jour.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
I think you can probably count the purpose-built knife steels on the market without needing both hands. So the fact that knife steel nerds are not fully satisfied with their options to date hardly seems outrageous to me.
Personally, Magna Cut seems like it's very, very close to the best compromise possible, and I'm betting I'll settle on that for everything. But before it existed, there just wasn't anything that balanced. So I complained. As nicely as I could.
Larrin is a forum member that brings a ton of knowledge to this forum and I for one want him around. As far as steels go, I'd trust whatever Larrin has to say regarding steels over all of you except for Sal.
Some of this is funny. I mean, it is true that we get spoiled by Spyderco's constant lookout for new steels to test. However, most of these people really have no inkling of what they are talking about. For example, even when Dr. Larrin reported how really good S30V is, these folks kept talking about how bad it is, or how old fashioned and out of date it is. They are doing the same with M390/204P, now. I notice other knife companies do not get nearly this amount of flak and they are still using "Old Fashioned" steels.
It's a key goal of marketers to make you feel like what you have is out of date of insufficient.
I have been caught by this thinking VG10 was "inferior". A 10 year old knife steel is not a 10 year old computer. If you are happy (or were happy) with the performance of a knife wen you bought it that should remain the case.
VG10 and S30V are light years ahead of knife steels used 30 years ago. They are good to this day. Yes I will buy a K390 steel knife but it won't render other very good knives made with older steels obsolete. Don't get caught up in hype. It only keeps you poor.
All things become obsolete eventually. When they make a lightsaber, someone will eventually make a better lightsaber and people will always want what's better because the grass over there is always greener.
Guilty of sentimentally. With the perfect heat treat, it is tough and easy to sharpen if you can deal with the corrosion issue. I still like my 1095 knives that I bought, but I would like them more in LC200N or 3V
As I have no doubt you know, the grass over there is greener often because of the vast increase in the amount of "natural fertilizer." Folks need to watch where they're stepping lest they step in something not so pleasant.
People still love and use 1095 despite the fact that it is without a doubt obsoleted by other steels.
Mule Team Army 001
MNOSD 008 Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
The following statements from myself is going to ruffle some feathers and probably not make me many friends. But I am honest. Read at your own risk. I won't follow or reply to this post as I do not wish to have a debate over the same old crap that is not beneficial to the knife community and basically beating a dead horse. Or disrespect Spyderco's forum. This will be the only time I speak on this or interject my opinion on such a subject full of controversy from both sides.
Actually knife snobs don't bother me. In fact, I kind of like them. And contrary to popular belief. They do often use a $500 EDC knife for every day use. And even own some budget blades for hard use. Trying to label all knife snobs as one in the same is stupid.
Couple of reasons why knife snobs are vital to the knife community.
1. They will more than likely never ask to use my knives. And chances are if a knife snob did use my knife. He would more than likely not mess it up. Break the blade in half from stupidity. Or steal it unlike some (Not All) non knife snobs.
2. They spend a ton on knives which in turn helps keeps knife manufacturers in business. Including Spyderco. Sorry but their money goes towards manufacturers investing in better knife designs and construction. Which benefits the manufacturers and community. Including non knife snobs.
3. They tend to be the most vocal voracious knife rights enthusiasts that support and donate large sums of money to Knife rights groups. knife friendly politicians. The second amendment. And devote much time and money to the preservation of knives and ownership.
Or we can be like some parts of Europe and 3rd world countries. And rave over the 1 1/2 inch bladed SAK and go to 5 years in prison for owning a locking folder. Due to their cowardice to stand up for their rights and do away with draconian laws. Sorry but truth is truth.
4. With their never ending quest for perfect steel/handle material. Manufacturers are investing into better steels and higher quality knives that will eventually be in the hands of the general public. Sorry but I grew tired of low carbon or inferior stainless being over hyped for the last century.
You can argue that mankind has got by with bronze, iron, and stone knives for centuries. I can tell you in response that I bet they would throw their knives in the trash if they ever experienced 3G, REX45, S35VN, Elmax, or any of the newer steels in the last 30 years.
5. Like them or not. Knife snobs must be doing something right in their lives and have a very good education in order to be able to collect $500, $1000, on up in price knives that guys like me have to save up for. Go in debt. Or not own due to it being out of my reach financially.
6. Knife snobs inspire different changes. Not everyone. Including myself want the same old boring designs that have for far too long been praised as the be all end all. I myself like futuristic and tactical designs. And without knife snobs. It is entirely likely that there would not be any other options asides for the same old boring stuff that has flooded the market since the 1930's.
7. Knife snobs are pretty educated about knives including budget priced knives. And know what junk should be avoided. Knife snobs and people like Larrin and Cliff Stamp have educated me pretty good about steels, what collectors to buy, And what is a good budget knife that won't fail you from faulty lock design.
Don't get me wrong. Some knife snobs can be jerks and undesirable people to befriend. But so can the non knife snobs who constantly complain on the internet because they cannot afford a $200 Native Chief. Which I saved my money and worked for.
Or have to spout off to people like me with their why did you waste your money on a Spyderco Native Chief in that fancy smancy rich boy REX 45 hype steel? When my $4 Ozark Trail in 3cr whatever crap will do anything your toy can do. That is down right insulting, rude, and a double standard that never gets called out. I hear this type of jibber jabber from others at least once a week. I hear more jealousy, hypocrisy, and hateful comments from non knife snobs than so called knife snobs.
If me buying a knife over $200. Collecting some for showing off in my den. Or wanting better materials and locks makes me a snob. Than so be it. I look at it like this. I don't like Junk and having to replace it often. And I am a grown man who will buy what the **** I want.
If I can't afford it. I won't cry and whine on social media about it or crap on others who do own something I cannot afford. I honestly like to see people prosper and afford nice things they want. Even if I cannot. I am not going to let envy or my financial status turn me into a jealous douche of others.
I have yet to see a knife snob post on social media whining about what others use or talking down to other people on BladeForums, Facebook, or Reddit for owning less expensive knives. Usually 99 times out of 100 it is a jealous or argumentative stubborn non knife snob stirring the hornets nest and starting crap. Which results in less than favorable responses from knife snobs. He complains he cannot afford a $100 Endura. But he has no issue spending $100 a week on beer, $40 a week on Cigarettes, or getting married and not managing his income better or blaming the wife.
Pure nonsense.
But there is surely 20 to 30 posts a week I get tired of seeing. Of so called non knife snobs going off on knife snobs just because of jealousy. Or the fact that their $4 Ozark Trail or $12 Kershaw in 3CR13MOV is in fact A cheap garbage knife. instead of being praised as an equal to a $1,500 Shirogorov or Rockstead.
And 1095 is indeed overrated by tons of other steels. Not just super steels.
Ask me how I know what a junk knife is. Try failing locks from my younger dumber days buying junk MTechs, Gerbers, and clone Buck 112's resulting in stitches a few times from light use. Not to mention the gritty action and blade steel that would dull from farting on the blade. I got better things to do than sharpen a crap steel every 5 minutes.
If wanting technological advancements in knives and better safe locks/materials makes me a snob. Or wishing I could afford a nice Shirogorov or top line collector edition Spyderco makes me a snob. Then you might as well call me a knife snob also. Sorry I got tired of the overrated SAK, Case, and boring Buck 112 designs. And like other stuff I am willing to pay for if it is within my financial reach.
Knife snobs get entirely too much blame. And yet people fail to clean out their own skeletons in their closet before crapping on others who can afford something nicer.
Heck even Jay Fisher. Who many consider arrogant and overrated has stated on his albeit long winded website that he would never go out of his way to shame someone in public he met because they cannot afford a custom or more expensive knife.
End of rant. No replies will be responded to. So don't bother.
Last edited by Josh1973 on Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Larrin is a forum member that brings a ton of knowledge to this forum and I for one want him around. As far as steels go, I'd trust whatever Larrin has to say regarding steels over all of you except for Sal.
Put a cork in it already.
Well put sir. Agreed and comment of the year. You are awesome.
For me, becoming a knife steel nerd (mainly by reading Larrin Thomas’s site and book) actually made me less of a knife steel snob. I now feel like I have a much better understanding of the simple fact that edge geometry is more important than anything else in cutting performance, which is a sort of anti-steel snobbery stance. And the follow up to that is the understanding that toughness and hardness are the key factors in making a thin edge stable. So relatively un-sung steels like AEB-L and 14C28N, under this analysis, become (if brought to high enough hardness) unexpected stars.
As Larrin mentions above, M390/20CV/204P has pretty poor toughness, so the fact that it is increasingly becoming “standard” is like a bad joke.
Josh1973 covered the point I wanted to make in his long post above, so I’ll state it briefly. Knife nerds like us who own thousands of dollars worth of Spyderco knives are supporting a vital industry leader whose products are available to all.
A friend recently went to Colorado on vacation and visited the SFO in Golden on my recommendation. He bought a Byrd Robin there and he loves it! A great knife at an affordable price point, I approve.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2, 
Mule Team Army 001
Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
