Folding knife tang size

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Doc Dan
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Folding knife tang size

#1

Post by Doc Dan »

Does the size of the tang on a folding life matter? I noticed that the tang on the military is very long and thick. However the tang on miles like the Enduro and many other lives is relatively small and much thinner. To me it would seem that the longer and larger the tank the better it would be for the knife structurally.

What do you all think? Does the size of the tang matter?
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#2

Post by JRinFL »

This is a large tang.
tang.jpg
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#3

Post by rashman »

lol, that reminds me of Mang - mango flavored Tang made for the Arab and Asian markets
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#4

Post by JRinFL »

The tang on my Military is roughly the same size as the one on my Native, although not directly comparable due to the different profile. I think the overall design dictates the tang size so that the "cockpit" geometries work.

I also agree that a larger tang should contribute to overall strength of the knife, but I'd need an engineer to really prove or disprove that assumption.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#5

Post by Evil D »

Seems to me like the more meat you have around the pivot, the stronger overall it'll be (at least I think this is what you're talking about). The Endura (and back locks in general) seem to always have less tang around the pivot because the lock bar is on top eating up space and the kick/ricasso has to be a certain size and shape on the bottom. A liner lock seems to take much less space since it just needs a flat face for the lock bar to mate to, so the top and bottom can be more full and beefy.

If that's not what you meant then I guess disregard all that ;)
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#6

Post by Doc Dan »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:57 pm
Seems to me like the more meat you have around the pivot, the stronger overall it'll be (at least I think this is what you're talking about). The Endura (and back locks in general) seem to always have less tang around the pivot because the lock bar is on top eating up space and the kick/ricasso has to be a certain size and shape on the bottom. A liner lock seems to take much less space since it just needs a flat face for the lock bar to mate to, so the top and bottom can be more full and beefy.

If that's not what you meant then I guess disregard all that ;)
You got it. It seems that the more steel the better. It is certainly that way on a fixed blade knife. Why would it not be that way on a folding knife? I think it is. Some knives seem to have very little tang in the handle, while the Military has a massive tang. There is a lot of steel back there. Doesn't it make sense that in some ways a longer and thicker tang would make a stronger knife? When, then, do more knives not have larger tangs?

Another issue is that a larger/longer tang would seem to provide a larger bearing surface for the lock. That would seem to indicate an ability for a stronger knife. Of course, I am no engineer, but it seems so.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#7

Post by Evil D »

Doc Dan wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:05 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:57 pm
Seems to me like the more meat you have around the pivot, the stronger overall it'll be (at least I think this is what you're talking about). The Endura (and back locks in general) seem to always have less tang around the pivot because the lock bar is on top eating up space and the kick/ricasso has to be a certain size and shape on the bottom. A liner lock seems to take much less space since it just needs a flat face for the lock bar to mate to, so the top and bottom can be more full and beefy.

If that's not what you meant then I guess disregard all that ;)
You got it. It seems that the more steel the better. It is certainly that way on a fixed blade knife. Why would it not be that way on a folding knife? I think it is. Some knives seem to have very little tang in the handle, while the Military has a massive tang. There is a lot of steel back there. Doesn't it make sense that in some ways a longer and thicker tang would make a stronger knife? When, then, do more knives not have larger tangs?

Another issue is that a larger/longer tang would seem to provide a larger bearing surface for the lock. That would seem to indicate an ability for a stronger knife. Of course, I am no engineer, but it seems so.


I think the "why" is part lock design and part cost. A larger tang can also sometimes mean larger washers, like on a Sebenza and that means all but eliminating side play because there's so much contact area between the tang and washers it takes up all the wiggle room for lateral flex.

I'm sure at some point there's some other part of a folder's design that fails first. If you make the tang bigger and stronger, then maybe the lock itself fails. Make the lock stronger and maybe the pivot or scale screws fail. I'd like to think some kind of R&D goes into that and there's probably a balance for every model. I doubt we'll ever see those numbers though, because it could potentially ruin the sales of some models and simultaneously over inflate peoples' confidence in others.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#8

Post by nerdlock »

Also, just a hunch, but aside from cost (as D mentioned) might it be that it could also have something to do with the knife balance? Personally I've never had any issues with blade-handle balance though others seem to be more perceptive of this.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#9

Post by Bolster »

Note how far back the pivot is set from the leading edge of the handle. When the pivot is set well back, such as with a Yojimbo/Delica, you tend to have a bigger-handle-smaller-blade ratio. OTOH, where the pivot is closer to the front of the handle (Caly/Chaparral/Stretch1) you can get a longer blade for your handle size. BUT, that's gotta come at some cost to strength under extreme conditions. Though I've yet to hear of a Caly/Chaparral/Stretch flying apart due to insufficient support around the pivot.

I would imagine that "less tang" can be compensated in strength, to some degree, by the strength of the liners/bolster around the pivot.

On a tangential topic, I've often wondered how close you can get the pivot to the front of the handle and still have a strong folding knife. I'd guess that lateral stability would be the first to go.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#10

Post by p_atrick »

I feel like the Phoenix has an abnormally long tang for a folding knife.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#11

Post by Doc Dan »

It is long, but is it any longer than the Military or Paramilitary 2? I've not measured one.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#12

Post by JMM »

It's interesting to see how much tang there is on smaller knives like the Brouwer & Phoenix when the tang is really part of the handle from a user perspective.... The Brouwer is one of my favourite small knives I've ever owned it just fits my hand so well for how little it really is.

Image

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Re: Folding knife tang size

#13

Post by aaronkb »

This seems related to the discussion around bearings vs small pb washers vs wide pb washers. Bearings have the least surface area in contact which increases pressure from any lateral force, followed by small washers, followed by bigger washers. I think that’s probably the most important thing, as the tang should only be in contact with the washers and the locking mechanism. If it’s in contact anywhere else, hasn’t something already gone very wrong? I guess maybe tang size could make the difference between having to replace the washer or having to replace the handle.
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Re: Folding knife tang size

#14

Post by bearfacedkiller »

I mostly wonder about the cutout for the lock and how much space is left between it and the pivot. Frame/liner locks seem to have less cut away. Internal stop pins can also take a lot of steel out of a tang. In the end it is probably a moot point because the blade will still break before the tang.
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