LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

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Jbaffoh
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#21

Post by Jbaffoh »

vivi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:23 pm
Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm
Hi, I just got your message. When it comes to cleaning or filleting fish, you need clean cuts. Serrated edges don’t give you that—instead you get jagged/fuzzy edges that do not look appealing. Further, serrated edges bring zero advantages for cutting fish. A good sharp plain edge always works better. With regard to rope, serrated edges are great for hacking through something in a hurry, which is great if you are being dragged underwater by fishing gear or something. I use serrated edges for emergencies. Fortunately, I don’t have emergencies very often, but I still keep one handy on boats. However, 99% of the time I cut rope, I intend to splice the end or do something else that requires a clean, even, cut. Serrated edges will fray the **** out of three-strand, and nylon double-braid on the sailboat turns into an exploded Himalayan kitten. Each of those little teeth snag and pull the fibers to the point that the lay of the rope is unrecognizable. Either way, the ends are unusable and will need to be re-cut with a good edge or a hot knife.
Sounds like you've been using serrated edges that aren't very sharp. A serrated knife sharp enough to push cut a receipt doesn't cut rope that way.
Yes it does. Push cutting a receipt does not drag the teeth through fibers—it slides down one of the scallops.

Would you like to see a comparison of rope cutting between a brand new Atlantic Salt SE, a Tasman Salt SE, and a Caribbean PE? My SE’s push cut perfectly, by the way. That is not how you cut fish or rope.

Dude, I’ve been on the water since 1965 and I have used hundreds of knives. I know a little bit about this—and other EXPERIENCED fishermen and sailors agree.
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#22

Post by Jbaffoh »

VooDooChild wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:49 pm
Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:19 pm
I’m a little curious about everyone’s preference for SE in the marine environment. Why SE?

I’m a former Bering Sea commercial fisherman, and I’ve cleaned tens of thousands of fish, cut tens of thousands of lines, used knives for everything imaginable. Now I’m living on a sailboat, crossing oceans, catching fish, and working my way around the world. I have a few serrated knives, but they are reserved for emergency use only, when I, or something else, needs to be cut free in a hurry without any regard to salvaging or re-using the thing that is cut. I never use serrated edges on fish, food (except for a bread knife on bread), or rope (serrated edges fray and ruin the end.) So for all daily use, I use plain edges. We have serrated knives on deck and in our PFD’s in case something goes awry, but that’s it.

So, I’m genuinely curious about what I am missing. Why SE blades for marine use?
Im sure others here wont like this answer but...

For me the advantage of the serrared edge is it still cuts when dull. It also doesnt need the sharpening maintenance a plain edge does.
So you know your serrated knife is always going to work.

As far as a bullet proof, rust proof, folding knife that lives in your pocket, the serrated edge makes a lot of sense. It is about as close as can be to a zero maintenance knife. (If you dont care about "dull" serrations.)

You absolutely can fillet fish with a serrated knife, or really with anything if you dont have a choice about it. But I get what youre saying, there is a reason most fillet knives use a plain edge.
I’ve never seen a fillet knife with a serrated edge. By the way, I’m also a trained sushi chef—I would NEVER touch a fish with a serrated edge. NEVER. Will it cut? Sure. Will it look good? **** no! Will it affect taste? Yes—more jaggy surfaces to oxidize instantly. Just because it will cut, does not mean it’s an adequate tool for the job. That’s why I have very expensive hand-forged yanagis for slicing sashimi and sushi. For breaking down big fish (150 lbs+) I use granton edged Victorinox butcher knives, and block them up later using yanagis. The thought of a serrated edge on a fish is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

There is a widely held general perception in the boating world that people with serrated edges don’t know what they are doing. Emergency/rescue knives are an exception.
skeeg11
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#23

Post by skeeg11 »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:13 pm
The thought of a serrated edge on a fish is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

:smiling-cheeks You do have a way with words.

The use of a hawkbill with a spikey tip (generally serrated) for ikejimi from the head instead of the tail is useful in addition to gill slittin', tho.
Last edited by skeeg11 on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jbaffoh
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#24

Post by Jbaffoh »

How do you post a pic on this archaic site? I forgot all the commands from the 1990’s.
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#25

Post by Wartstein »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:34 pm
How do you post a pic on this archaic site? I forgot all the commands from the 1990’s.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83968
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Bill1170
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#26

Post by Bill1170 »

I can cut synthetic rope cleanly with a serrated blade. The key is rounding the spiky points on the Sharpmaker before cutting. It’s the spiky points that produce the exploded Himalayan kitten, lol.
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VooDooChild
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#27

Post by VooDooChild »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:13 pm

I’ve never seen a fillet knife with a serrated edge. By the way, I’m also a trained sushi chef—I would NEVER touch a fish with a serrated edge. NEVER. Will it cut? Sure. Will it look good? **** no! Will it affect taste? Yes—more jaggy surfaces to oxidize instantly. Just because it will cut, does not mean it’s an adequate tool for the job. That’s why I have very expensive hand-forged yanagis for slicing sashimi and sushi. For breaking down big fish (150 lbs+) I use granton edged Victorinox butcher knives, and block them up later using yanagis. The thought of a serrated edge on a fish is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

There is a widely held general perception in the boating world that people with serrated edges don’t know what they are doing. Emergency/rescue knives are an exception.
You can google serrated fillet knife. They exist.

I prefer a plain edge for filleting. Im not recommending a serrated edge for filleting, (and definitely not for sushi), I was just saying it can be done.

So keep the serrated knives for emergency/rescue use. When I go out on the boat my knives with me are pretty much for that. Cutting through something and all I need to do is cut it, not worry about how it looks or reusing it, etc. Think line wrapped around a prop.

Also, doesnt some of the high end rigging need a saw?

Like I said earlier the real advantage to the serrated edge is it still cuts when its dull. Eventually, it will outcut a plain edge assuming you for whatever reason couldnt sharpen them.
Last edited by VooDooChild on Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vivi
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#28

Post by vivi »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:04 pm
vivi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:23 pm
Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm
Hi, I just got your message. When it comes to cleaning or filleting fish, you need clean cuts. Serrated edges don’t give you that—instead you get jagged/fuzzy edges that do not look appealing. Further, serrated edges bring zero advantages for cutting fish. A good sharp plain edge always works better. With regard to rope, serrated edges are great for hacking through something in a hurry, which is great if you are being dragged underwater by fishing gear or something. I use serrated edges for emergencies. Fortunately, I don’t have emergencies very often, but I still keep one handy on boats. However, 99% of the time I cut rope, I intend to splice the end or do something else that requires a clean, even, cut. Serrated edges will fray the **** out of three-strand, and nylon double-braid on the sailboat turns into an exploded Himalayan kitten. Each of those little teeth snag and pull the fibers to the point that the lay of the rope is unrecognizable. Either way, the ends are unusable and will need to be re-cut with a good edge or a hot knife.
Sounds like you've been using serrated edges that aren't very sharp. A serrated knife sharp enough to push cut a receipt doesn't cut rope that way.
Yes it does. Push cutting a receipt does not drag the teeth through fibers—it slides down one of the scallops.

Would you like to see a comparison of rope cutting between a brand new Atlantic Salt SE, a Tasman Salt SE, and a Caribbean PE? My SE’s push cut perfectly, by the way. That is not how you cut fish or rope.

Dude, I’ve been on the water since 1965 and I have used hundreds of knives. I know a little bit about this—and other EXPERIENCED fishermen and sailors agree.
Not sure why your knives won't do it, butI can cleanly slice rope with my serrated knives.

Image

I can cleanly slice raw fish too, but I'm not about to go thaw out a filet to make a video haha.
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Evil D
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#29

Post by Evil D »

vivi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:42 pm

I can cleanly slice raw fish too, but I'm not about to go thaw out a filet to make a video haha.


Your first sin was using serrations to cut fish, but now you're using FROZEN FISH and not using a giant blue fin tuna that was just caught 12 minutes ago so you obviously don't know anything. All your credibility is now in question ;)
Last edited by Evil D on Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cabfrank
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#30

Post by cabfrank »

Jbaffoh, sure, we would like to see your comparison, if you want to post it. I think all of us are open minded, and don't doubt your credentials. That said, I think most of us think SE knives are excellent rope slicers, and probably don't really believe there's a wide spread perception in the boating world that people who use SE knives don't know what they are doing, as you put it. I will admit I've cut sushi with PE and SE, largely thanks to Sal, and I like PE better for that, but both cut well. My SE was very toothy though, and I will try again with more rounded serrations, next time I order sushi.
skeeg11
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#31

Post by skeeg11 »

Vivi's just having a little fun with us. He's a chef and knows fish. ;)
dan31
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#32

Post by dan31 »

Most people that have serrated blades never sharpen them. Then the complaint is they snag and tear. I have worked with 2”-4” braided sheath over a smooth core. Those lines can be a challenge to splice. A sharp SE blade is still a thing of beauty.
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phaust
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#33

Post by phaust »

Some cool contrasts of perspective and different use cases here.

That's why Spyderco is so great: whatever you need or think is best, they've got you covered
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#34

Post by jpm2 »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:19 pm
I’m a little curious about everyone’s preference for SE in the marine environment. Why SE?

I’m a former Bering Sea commercial fisherman, and I’ve cleaned tens of thousands of fish, cut tens of thousands of lines, used knives for everything imaginable. Now I’m living on a sailboat, crossing oceans, catching fish, and working my way around the world. I have a few serrated knives, but they are reserved for emergency use only, when I, or something else, needs to be cut free in a hurry without any regard to salvaging or re-using the thing that is cut. I never use serrated edges on fish, food (except for a bread knife on bread), or rope (serrated edges fray and ruin the end.) So for all daily use, I use plain edges. We have serrated knives on deck and in our PFD’s in case something goes awry, but that’s it.

So, I’m genuinely curious about what I am missing. Why SE blades for marine use?
Hi Jb, I'm right there with you on everything you said.
Jbaffoh
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#35

Post by Jbaffoh »

vivi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:42 pm
Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:04 pm
vivi wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:23 pm
Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm
Hi, I just got your message. When it comes to cleaning or filleting fish, you need clean cuts. Serrated edges don’t give you that—instead you get jagged/fuzzy edges that do not look appealing. Further, serrated edges bring zero advantages for cutting fish. A good sharp plain edge always works better. With regard to rope, serrated edges are great for hacking through something in a hurry, which is great if you are being dragged underwater by fishing gear or something. I use serrated edges for emergencies. Fortunately, I don’t have emergencies very often, but I still keep one handy on boats. However, 99% of the time I cut rope, I intend to splice the end or do something else that requires a clean, even, cut. Serrated edges will fray the **** out of three-strand, and nylon double-braid on the sailboat turns into an exploded Himalayan kitten. Each of those little teeth snag and pull the fibers to the point that the lay of the rope is unrecognizable. Either way, the ends are unusable and will need to be re-cut with a good edge or a hot knife.
Sounds like you've been using serrated edges that aren't very sharp. A serrated knife sharp enough to push cut a receipt doesn't cut rope that way.
Yes it does. Push cutting a receipt does not drag the teeth through fibers—it slides down one of the scallops.

Would you like to see a comparison of rope cutting between a brand new Atlantic Salt SE, a Tasman Salt SE, and a Caribbean PE? My SE’s push cut perfectly, by the way. That is not how you cut fish or rope.

Dude, I’ve been on the water since 1965 and I have used hundreds of knives. I know a little bit about this—and other EXPERIENCED fishermen and sailors agree.
Not sure why your knives won't do it, butI can cleanly slice rope with my serrated knives.

Image

I can cleanly slice raw fish too, but I'm not about to go thaw out a filet to make a video haha.
Hah! You call that “cutting rope?” Try cutting 5/8” dockline to prep it for an eye splice. Take your pick, nylon three-strand or double braid. Go ahead—I’m waiting :squinting-tongue
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#36

Post by cabfrank »

We are also waiting. Show us. We want to believe.
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#37

Post by Jbaffoh »

cabfrank wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:10 am
Jbaffoh, sure, we would like to see your comparison, if you want to post it. I think all of us are open minded, and don't doubt your credentials. That said, I think most of us think SE knives are excellent rope slicers, and probably don't really believe there's a wide spread perception in the boating world that people who use SE knives don't know what they are doing, as you put it. I will admit I've cut sushi with PE and SE, largely thanks to Sal, and I like PE better for that, but both cut well. My SE was very toothy though, and I will try again with more rounded serrations, next time I order sushi.
I have a brand new Atlantic Salt SE and brand new Pacific Salt II PE, both LC200N, neither have cut anything yet. Would that be a fair comparison? I just need to figure out how to prop up my phone for the video—it is blowing 30kts now and I don’t want to lose it overboard. Maybe I’ll bribe my wife into holding it.⛵️
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#38

Post by dan31 »

It’s interesting the amount of line work I did. We didn't splice lines all the time. Maybe twice a year to replace a few worn out or damaged lines. I used my knife for lots of paint prep on the boats. PE for the day to day work knife. SE for underway. Same deal when I switched over to helicopters.
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Re: LC200N Pac Salt SE on the way

#39

Post by on_the_edge »

Jbaffoh wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm
Hi, I just got your message. When it comes to cleaning or filleting fish, you need clean cuts. Serrated edges don’t give you that—instead you get jagged/fuzzy edges that do not look appealing. Further, serrated edges bring zero advantages for cutting fish. A good sharp plain edge always works better. With regard to rope, serrated edges are great for hacking through something in a hurry, which is great if you are being dragged underwater by fishing gear or something. I use serrated edges for emergencies. Fortunately, I don’t have emergencies very often, but I still keep one handy on boats. However, 99% of the time I cut rope, I intend to splice the end or do something else that requires a clean, even, cut. Serrated edges will fray the **** out of three-strand, and nylon double-braid on the sailboat turns into an exploded Himalayan kitten. Each of those little teeth snag and pull the fibers to the point that the lay of the rope is unrecognizable. Either way, the ends are unusable and will need to be re-cut with a good edge or a hot knife.
Got it. Thank you for that information.
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