Self loosening pivots

[vivi]

I recently brought up an issue I've had with the pivot screws coming loose on Spydercos in this thread

I have had it happen with liner locks, comp locks, back locks and ball locks.

I am 99% sure this is why I gave up on comp locks. I sport a scar on my right pinky from a Para 2 opening in my pocket and stabbing me when I attempted to retrieve it.

What I failed to realize at the time is the pivot had worked itself loose, and on a detent based lock this can have disastrous results. I remember having to tighten down the pivot a lot after that incident, but at the time I blamed the incident solely on the lock type.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85163&p=1370472&hil ... t#p1370472 - thread about my Police 4's both working themselves loose (g10 and frn)



IIRC it went from perfectly dialed in from the factory to significant side to side play within 20 opening cycles.

Today my Pacific Salt almost failed to make it through a 10 hour work shift due to this same issue

Here's how I like to have my pivot adjusted:

https://streamable.com/zevcel

No free swinging blades, regardless of lock type. I like all opening and closing action on my folders to be 100% manual.

This is how my PE LC200N Pacific Salt was adjusted when I clocked in today.

This is how it looks now:

https://streamable.com/o7ozon

Generous side to side play, and the pivot screw could be felt shifting around anytime I cut something with the knife.

Can I fix this over night with some loc-tite?

Of course. In fact I just ordered two new tubes of red.

But I wonder what causes this issue.

Especially with this Pacific Salt in particular. I've been carrying it to work the past few weeks with no issues with the pivot. Used it for the same things today as every other day. Plastic packaging, mail, tape on boxes, and maybe 20' of cardboard per day.

No flicking, no wave, no spyderdropping, no prying. Just manual thumb opening and light cutting jobs.

Have you experienced this issue?

[Vaugith]

I have had some pivots that came loose when the knife was new... During the break in period I keep a close watch on pivot tension and centering and make small adjustments often. I always dissasemble to clean and oil after I feel a new knife has sufficiently broken in. After I apply the blue Loctite during reassembly I never have issues with pivots again.

I don't think Spyderco needs encouragement to apply more thread locker from the factory, however I think a more consistant amount of thread locker would be a good improvement. Some new knives have almost none and others are drenched in the stuff, making it hard to disassemble without stripping screws.

[Zive]

Have had a few loose pivots from the factory, which has always been easily remedied with blue loctite. For better or worse I fidget with my knives compulsively so I would probably notice the issue before I would end up maiming myself when reaching into my pocket.

Only my titanium Dogtag had this issue persistently to the point of sending in to W&R.

[soc_monki]

Don't use red unless you never want to take it apart again. Use blue. I use the stick, the liquid is annoying. After applying loctite, adjusting, and letting a knife sit for 24 hours, mine don't come loose unless I loosen them.

Without loctite no knife I've touched stayed tight.

[Evil D]

We're slowly coming full circle from people upset about thread locker to people upset about the lack of thread locker. Someone at Spyderco is reading this and are sitting there going...





I suppose somewhere there's a happy middle ground between all this were screws never loosen by themselves but are easy to remove at the same time but I suspect we will never find that level of consistency in a production setting. When you consider this sort of thing happening to military personnel and first responders and generally anyone who does not have time to fiddle with their screws out in the heat of what they do, I can't fault Spyderco one bit for using red loctite to prevent it. I think this topic will outlive all of us.


Oh, to answer the question, I've had screws come loose on all sorts of knives over the years. It's now a "new knife ritual" to disassemble/inspect/adjust/thread lock every knife I plan to carry. Partly because I just enjoy seeing what's going on under the hood and partly so I can only blame myself if something comes loose.

[DFD04]

I’ve had every locking mechanism that spyderco offers and never had this happen to me.

[Sharp Guy]

I had 1 out of over 150 folding knives. The pivot on the Sage 1 that I bought used had a pivot screw that kept loosening up. I degreased the screw and the hole and used blue loctite on it. It hasn't been a problem since. That was 5 years ago

People complained when Spyderco was using thread locker on their pivot screws. Now they're complaining that they don't. Go figure

[spoonrobot]

I always assumed the issue was caused by precession of the pivot barrel. Each opening moves it ever so slightly one way, each closing moves it ever so slightly the other way. The pivot screw relies on tension and friction at the threads and against the scale, which can be overcome as friction at the pivot and tang increases. I think FRN models are more prone to this due to the relatively lower friction of the scale material.

Regardless, I don't believe I've ever had this happen on a Spyderco - all my users are had loctite from the factory. I have had it happen on other brands, moreso recently as I am using flippers with caged bearings that require finer tuning.

[Oloung1]

I think my preference has settled on vibra-tite vc-3 on pivots and loctite blue on rest of body and clip screws. I just like to be able to make micro adjustments with the vc3.

[Bill1170]

I’ve never had a pivot self-loosen on any knife I own, and I’ve used many folding knives over the years. I wonder if it has any connection to adjusting pivot tension? I seldom feel the need to do so. Clip screws are a different story. I’ve needed to remove loose clip screws and secure them with blue Loctite. Once locked, no failures.

[dsvirsky]

I've had it happen on exactly two knives out of the hundred or so I own:

Strider SnG, happened once, tightened the pivot screw, and never had it happen again in 15 years. I believe the pivot screw was probably a little loose when the knife arrived from the dealer.

With my green Pacific Salt 2, I noticed side to side play in the blade, tightened the pivot screw, and found it loose again a couple weeks later. Tightened it again, this time using a drop of nail polish (Hard as Nails for those of you taking notes) on the pivot screw, since I was upstairs and my blue loctite was downstairs. Roughly a year later, no recurrence of the problem.

[metaphoricalsimile]

I have a Dfly with this issue. I fixed it by *cleaning off* the pivot screw, and then reapplying blue loctite and letting it sit overnight. I prefer the action to be as loose as possible without allowing horizontal blade play, and my dragonfly is now happily sitting at that point, despite the fact that it doesn't have as much screw tension as it would tightened down more.

I am willing to bet this issue is worse with linerless knives because the scales allow the pivot to flex more during normal operations of the knife.

[Josh Crutchley]

I've only been using Spyderco knives for less than a year so I don't have as much experience as other members. I don't recall having any pivots loosening up on me. I do have a coyote Urban with the opposite problem, it spun the pivot when trying to take it apart.

[FourStringFiend]

I’ve had it happen on two new Spydercos (Caly 3.5 ZDP/Pakkawood Endura) and when I opened them up there was no loctite at all, must have been Friday. I open/close them enough before I pocket them to see the issue. Add a little blue loctite and they stay solid.

It’s not a huge issue if you have the tools but not everyone does. I can see where it would turn someone off to the brand.

[jpm2]

2 knives with self loosening pivots from another maker, none from Spydero. I used purple (222) loctite on those. Purple will make it stay put, but still allow adjustment and disassembly without impact or heat.

However, both hap40 dragonflys had self loosening clip screws. I lost one clip & screw, and almost lost the other after tightening each several times. Again, purple loctite to the rescue.

[nerdlock]

I've had pivot lock screws coming loose on 2 Spyderco knives, the Cutlery Shoppe Shaman CTS-XHP and the Gayle Bradley 2, with the GB2 being the worst offender, compounded by its weak detent. The rest of my Spydercos I have not encountered the same issue so far yet, or I might have forgotten.

EDIT: I forgot that the Para 3 S45VN Diamond arc sprint was also an offender in this area...I literally had the pivot screw fly out on me. Perhaps because of the different scale texture that affected the tolerance?

[Chuck James]

We're slowly coming full circle from people upset about thread locker to people upset about the lack of thread locker. Someone at Spyderco is reading this and are sitting there going...





I suppose somewhere there's a happy middle ground between all this were screws never loosen by themselves but are easy to remove at the same time but I suspect we will never find that level of consistency in a production setting. When you consider this sort of thing happening to military personnel and first responders and generally anyone who does not have time to fiddle with their screws out in the heat of what they do, I can't fault Spyderco one bit for using red loctite to prevent it. I think this topic will outlive all of us.


Oh, to answer the question, I've had screws come loose on all sorts of knives over the years. It's now a "new knife ritual" to disassemble/inspect/adjust/thread lock every knife I plan to carry. Partly because I just enjoy seeing what's going on under the hood and partly so I can only blame myself if something comes loose.

This about sums it up. :cool:

[The Meat man]

Yes, I've had pivots loosen on me. Not just Spyderco. In all cases, a dab (or two) of blue locktite fixes the issue.

[attila]

My Rex 45 Chief came with very loose pivot screws and blade wobble. I tightened them, and that’s about it so far. I’ll keep an eye out for screw loosening, and if I need to, I’ll put some blue loctite on it.

[TheGiant80]

The pivot screw on my Endura 4 CE (the knife I carry more than any other by far) backs itself out every few weeks.

Perhaps I should look into some loctite..