Self loosening pivots

[vivi]

We're slowly coming full circle from people upset about thread locker to people upset about the lack of thread locker. Someone at Spyderco is reading this and are sitting there going...

I think there's a happy medium between "Parts of your knife will break if you don't heat them up with a soldering iron first" and "Your knife will fall apart if you use it," and I think it's reasonable for a $200+ pocket knife to fall within that scope.

[vivi]

Don't use red unless you never want to take it apart again. Use blue. I use the stick, the liquid is annoying. After applying loctite, adjusting, and letting a knife sit for 24 hours, mine don't come loose unless I loosen them.

Without loctite no knife I've touched stayed tight.

You're right, I meant blue. Was thinking about the color of the bottle and not the liquid.

[Evil D]

We're slowly coming full circle from people upset about thread locker to people upset about the lack of thread locker. Someone at Spyderco is reading this and are sitting there going...

I think there's a happy medium between "Parts of your knife will break if you don't heat them up with a soldering iron first" and "Your knife will fall apart if you use it," and I think it's reasonable for a $200+ pocket knife to fall within that scope.

What baffles me is what exactly the issue is. Spyderco know more about this than any of us, regardless of what we see there must be a bigger picture for them to either 1) not do anything or 2) use super strong thread locker. If this were as simple as "just use blue Loctite" then why wouldn't they just use blue Loctite and end all of this? It's not like they don't have access to whatever strength thread locker they want to use. It's either extremely poor assembly, where knives get very little or too much thread locker, or it's a deliberate choice to do one or the other for whatever reason. Like with my Caribbean, it may not have red loctite on it but the white compound that was on it was stupid strong and over applied. Maybe that's just a combination of a choice to use a strong compound and the assembler having an off day and using too much.

[vivi]

Yeah I'm genuinely perplexed. If I can get things set perfectly with 2 cents worth of blue loctite from Home Depot, why doesn't the factory do it?

I've had knives like the Siren, Manix XL and Rex45 Chief with gobs of white loctite. Very difficult to pop them open without stripping screws without a soldering iron.

[James Y]

I’ve said it in other threads: The majority of people out there who might purchase a knife for work or outdoor play are not going to be knife hobbyists. They have a right to assume that a knife’s screws will not back out on their own. Unless they want to adjust it or disassemble it themselves. Which I’m betting the majority of people will NOT be interested in doing.

Spyderco definitely should require that all knives be assembled with blue Loctite. From wherever they’re manufactured.

I’ve personally never had any issues with screws loosening or backing out (yet), but I do think this is an important issue. Many of us may know to get the right torx sets and to Loctite knife screws, but I’m betting the average person, even most casual users of Spyderco knives, do not go on knife forums, and do not tinker with their knives. While a screw backing out may not seem like a big deal to many here, if it happens to a non-afi, it gives a terrible impression of a product.

Jim

[JRinFL]

There are several grades of loctite (more than the 3 commonly known grades) and similar products. I suspect Spyderco has not yet found the exact right grade. They probably could discuss it with the engineers at Loctite or wherever, if they haven’t already.

[Evil D]

If my buddy represents the average knife buyer, meaning someone who buys and uses a knife as a tool and isn't an AFI, he would probably use the knife for 20 years and never even think of taking it apart. Heck many people barely even sharpen their knives let alone take them apart or do any adjusting on them. Maybe Spyderco are just looking out for those kinds of people and maybe they're the majority. Maybe us enthusiasts just get the stinky end of the stick since we at least are inclined to find ways to get around the issue.

[VooDooChild]

I was on the other side in that thread.

I have absolutely had pivots loosen.

What I havent had, that was being talked about, is a knife coming apart in my hands because of this.

Even on knives that do have a loose pivot, I can get plenty of openings before that pivot would fall out. Certainly enough to get me through the day before I could find some way to tighten it down.

I also am always spydieflicking my knives.

As far as loose pivots go as well. My only offenders seem to be Seki made frn knives. And even then its random. I have some where the pivot always seems to come loose, and others that dont seem to loosen at all. I even have a few that I have still not had to adjust out of the box.

My US made spydies seem to never have issues with the pivot backing out, even after disassembly or adjustment.

I might have the best possible problem of simply having too many knives that I rotate through, but even then the randomness still doesnt make sense.

So Im voting yes to having had pivots loosen, but thats not the same as having had the knife fall apart.

[VooDooChild]

Also.
I had an old cheap knife where the pivot rotated with the blade every time you opened or closed it. You could actually see the screws turning together on both sides. Ironically because of this the screws never self loosened. It was a pain to disassemble because you had to use a driver on each side at the same time. And the pivot tension was never right and impossible to dial it in.

[Josh1973]

I owned about 60 to 70 folders in my life and currently own 10 to 12 folders from Spyderco and other manufacturers.
In general about 3 out of 5 of my folders started developing loose pivots. I simply cleaned the screw with a Q tip soaked in alcohol on one side. used the other dry side of the Q tip to clean any alcohol or remaining residue. Added a drop of blue liquid Loctite. And never had that issue happen again for as long as I owned the knife.

[jkurtz7]

One of my Dragonflies was coming loose after daily use and I got sick of having to tighten it at the end of the day so I put blue loctite on the pivot. Problem solved. None of my other Spyderco’s seem to come loose though, at least for now.

I’ve had to loctite a few of my Kershaw’s but only after they were taken apart for cleaning or assist spring replacement. Kershaw uses a healthy dose of thread locker from the factory, but it needs to be reapplied once the knife has been disassembled.

[metaphoricalsimile]

I think one issue is that thread locker only works to spec if it is used with clean hardware. I am willing to bet a lot of the screws that go into spydercos are not completely lube-free before the worker dips them in the loctite and screws them into the knife.

[tonijedi]

I think one issue is that thread locker only works to spec if it is used with clean hardware. I am willing to bet a lot of the screws that go into spydercos are not completely lube-free before the worker dips them in the loctite and screws them into the knife.

Good observation.

I've used spydies for more than 10 years, almost daily, and never had this issue of knives falling apart.

[pantagana23]

Not sure about Pacific Salt, but I did find the issue for Delica:

In my copy, the pivot screw was loose almost completely when it came, but the action was great.
Unfortunately, it would unscrew itself every day (I flick my knives all day long :D )
Upon opening, I see that there is a difference beween the hole in the liner and the pivot shape, which causes it to move for a couple of degrees every opening/closing.

In an ideal situation, the pivot has a fixed position and the blade slides around it, not together with it.

As the screw is tightened on FRN, and the pivot is moving, thread should theoretically be moving those couple of degrees.

Unfortunately, the screw will be unscrewing until there is no more tension, and in my case, the screw was a bit short, causing it to almost fall out.

As the screw was a tad too short, thus in order for the threads to lock enough for the Loctite to enage, I had to tighten it all the way

[jpm2]

For those using blue loctite on knife size screws, what does it take to get it loose again without damaging the screw?

[James Y]

For those using blue loctite on knife size screws, what does it take to get it loose again without damaging the screw?

Although I haven't had to deal with pivot screws, I have moved clips around to different positions, sometimes multiple times on the same knife over time, and using blue loctite each time. I've never had any problems unscrewing screws that had been secured with blue loctite. I only use the tiniest amount of loctite on the threads of a screw, and dab away any excess before reinserting it.

Jim

[jpm2]

For those using blue loctite on knife size screws, what does it take to get it loose again without damaging the screw?

Although I haven't had to deal with pivot screws, I have moved clips around to different positions, sometimes multiple times on the same knife over time, and using blue loctite each time. I've never had any problems unscrewing screws that had been secured with blue loctite. I only use the tiniest amount of loctite on the threads of a screw, and dab away any excess before reinserting it.

Jim

The reason I ask is because loctite lists blue for 1/4" bolts and up.
For anything smaller, they list purple.
I can see how using a minimal amount, only coating 1 or 2 threads would reduce the holding. Also I imagine most people don't degrease before applying, so that would also reduce holding.

At work, I encounter a lot of vibration and corrosion. To get the full benefit (holding, corrosion & galling resistance), I degrease the threads and coat them 100%. I supposed this isn't necessary for a knife.

I've twisted the heads off many #6, 8 & 10 machine screws that someone had installed with blue or red. That's why I cringe when hearing blue being applied to folding knife size screws, but again it's less of a problem if it's not applied by spec.

I've also had a few bad days replacing scope mounts that had red or blue on the screws.
Purple has never been a problem if used properly.

[Sharp Guy]

For those using blue loctite on knife size screws, what does it take to get it loose again without damaging the screw?

No issues using 242 or 243 hear. Spyderco actually gives you 243 when you buy a clip from them. I clean and degrease the screws and internal threads and haven't had an issue with the screws loosening. I also haven't had any issues removing the screws when I want to either.

Red is a no go for me on knife or gun screws. I've dealt with enough customer's rifles where they used red on their scope mounts. Nothing like having to drill out the screws to mount a new scope

[soc_monki]

Don't use red unless you never want to take it apart again. Use blue. I use the stick, the liquid is annoying. After applying loctite, adjusting, and letting a knife sit for 24 hours, mine don't come loose unless I loosen them.

Without loctite no knife I've touched stayed tight.

You're right, I meant blue. Was thinking about the color of the bottle and not the liquid.

Yea...they really need to make the color of bottles match the color of their liquids! :D I hear the purple is better for tiny screws, such as the ones used on knives, but I've always had good luck with blue. My only experience with red is on the job...and someone put so much it was almost impossible to get nuts off. I did, without heat, but man was it a chore!

[Albertaboyscott]

I've never had a pivot screw come loose but that's because every knife I buy gets the screws removed and loctite put on. Learned my lesson with my fishing reels when I was a kid. I just don't give them a chance to fail anymore.