Tool Steel Regular Production Folder Option

[aaronkb]

I'm not on the tool steel bandwagon (never tried any), but I wonder if Magnacut will change the equation. With a tool steel, you give up stain resistance for other traits you like more (toughness, strength, ease of sharpening, etc.). But Magnacut (from what I understand) can offer many of the traits of CruWear and 4V, but with stain resistance. Wouldn't Magnacut make for a better choice than a tool steel?

I used to care a lot about stain resistance... until I used some tool steels for a while. You’d be doing yourself a huge favor by giving m4 or k390 a spin.

Your point about Magnacut is well-taken... but I have a feeling it’d be more likely to eventually replace the stainless option, leaving room for even crazier steels like k390 as a tool steel option.

According to this post by Phil Wilson, it would be difficult to distinguish between 10V and K390. So, I wonder if there is some magical thinking going on about K390? My personal choice is still Cruwear as I prefer a more balanced steel.

I’d wager most of us who love k390 haven’t had a chance to try 10v. I’d be glad to pick some up, although I do value the allegedly higher impact toughness over a slight increase in wear resistance in a knife that already has insane wear resistance.

[bdblue]

I like M4, before that D2 (which is almost stainless). Since I saw some comparisons of edge strength of Rex45 vs M4 I've bought a Rex45 model to use as a work knife, although I'm not sure I'm sophisticated enough to tell the difference between M4 and Rex45. I bought a knife in K390 thinking it was near the top in edge-holding but in reality S110V is better in some data that I've read, and it's cheaper and commonly available.

Despite all the talk about edge-holding of different steels, I think Cruwear would serve the average user better than the super steels so that would be my suggestion. And I'll also repeat that I think the popular production models should also be available in one of the Salt steels for people who need that.

[RamZar]

I think the popular production models should also be available in one of the Salt steels for people who need that.

Agreed!

[RamZar]

Going with a steel other than the standard VG-10/S30V/S45VN in a regular production model will add to the price depending on the steel (the additional MAP price is a guestimate using current models/prices):

• Maxamet ... +$73
• K390 ...... +$45
• LC200N .... +$22
• CRU-WEAR .. +$17

[bearfacedkiller]

Cruwear seems like a very balanced steel that would work well for many but on the other hand it has edge retention on par with S30V so the average Joe probably wouldn’t notice much difference except for less corrosion resistance. K390 is awesome but it is probably a little overkill for the average Joe. There is a reasons why steels like S30V, XHP and even M390 make sense for the mass market.

I would be happy to see either Cruwear or K390/10V/A11.

[aaronkb]

I like M4, before that D2 (which is almost stainless). Since I saw some comparisons of edge strength of Rex45 vs M4 I've bought a Rex45 model to use as a work knife, although I'm not sure I'm sophisticated enough to tell the difference between M4 and Rex45. I bought a knife in K390 thinking it was near the top in edge-holding but in reality S110V is better in some data that I've read, and it's cheaper and commonly available.

FWIW...

The difference between m4 and Rex 45 would be more noticeable if you were doing dumb things with it (aka abuse). I can use Rex 45 in place of a can opener in a pinch with no noticeable edge damage.

As far as k390 vs s110v, s110v has insane wear resistance and will cut through boxes forever but k390 wins by miles on edge strength/stability, fine edge holding (aka shaving arm hair, as opposed to working edge which saws through boxes just fine once the fine edge is gone) impact toughness and in my opinion sharpenability.

[awa54]

I'd be glad to see CruWear, REX45 or 4V as regular production blade steels, though MagnaCut may well be a *fully* stainless alternative to those and K390 seems like a more balanced offering compared to Maxamet. I'd certainly buy it over Maxamet in an EDC knife.

[SteveMidwest]

Many of the Japanese made regular production Lightweight folder models now give you a choice of VG-10 or S30V stainless steels or K390 tool steel: Ladybug, Manbug, Dragonfly2, Delica4, Endela, Endura4, Police4, etc.

How about the same for the US made regular production folders where only a stainless steel (S30V or S45VN) option is available now? Should the tool steel option be K390 or CRU-WEAR or something else? Lil’ Native, Native5, Manix2, Para3, Shaman, Native Chief, Military, etc.

I'm with you, RamZar, and in particular. I often wonder when we will finally see K390 in a Shaman or Manix 2. My Spidey senses tell me, that Spyderco :spyder: is either holding those options back, for Dealers to use for future exclusives? Or, they have already been picked by Dealers, and we are now just waiting for their turn in the production schedule.

More combinations we should be able to look forward to in the future, as well.

Maxamet G-10 Manix 2
Maxamet Shaman
Z-Max in folding models
A 15V knife colab with BBB and Spyderco

As far as being a regular production option? I have mixed feelings about that, with some of these steel choices. You are right though. A tool steel choice should always be available with a production folder model. :)

[archangel]

Of the already established steels in the Spydiverse, Rex45 or Cru-Wear seem like the best options. Maxamet is too expensive. I hope we'll see Z-Max in folders. And finally some 4V in regular production Spydies, too.

But, it seems that all this is to be shifted to past tense once MagnaCut becomes available...

[Airlsee]

Honestly I would love, any of them as a regular option in a color other than black. 4V, K390, Rex45, M4, Cruwear/Z-Wear they are all good to go and would make great regular production knives. Someone's sprint or exclusive is going to lose some value, but that's just inevitable I guess. K390 or 4V would make the most sense from that perspective. The St. Nicks exclusives are extremely uniquely colored and they made small runs of 4V so I really don't think they would be hurt much by a regular production run of 4V.

This is all just opinion though. I very much hope to see any one of the 5 options mentioned in regular production Golden models (assuming MagnaCut isn't going to continue the suppression of high carbon production models).

[awa54]

.....

This is all just opinion though. I very much hope to see any one of the 5 options mentioned in regular production Golden models (assuming MagnaCut isn't going to continue the suppression of high carbon production models).

Just for clarificarion, do you see MagnaCut as an opponent to non-stainless tool steels, rather than a compliment/improvement to them?

My take is that IF it offers the same toughness, edge retention and sharpening response, *plus* being extremely stain resistant, then I'd be glad to see it "suppress" a normal tool steel in regular production. I'm also assuming that it would be a gateway steel to many who take a pass on tool steels due to concerns about corrosion and that there would still be CruWear or 4V sprints and exclusives, unless MagnaCut is universally considered better in every parameter...

[Halfneck]

Picked up a knife by Creely Blades in Cru-wear at BLADE. Was sharp when I got it, touched it up a bit on a fine ceramic stone and strop. Felt similar to some D2 and CTS-XHP knives I have which made since when I read up on it. As I'm a fan of those 2 steels I will assume I will like Cru-wear.

[Paraguy]

K390 everything (make them regular production)

Paramilitary range/ Manix/ The native range. - All the Golden foundational models.

Agreed.

[Airlsee]

Just for clarificarion, do you see MagnaCut as an opponent to non-stainless tool steels, rather than a compliment/improvement to them?

No not necessarily, more just an opponent for production space. I think that it will completely out sell any of the tool steels we are discussing right now. From the hype and discussions seen around here and other places, it seems like MagnaCut is going to be a game changing steel in the knife world and as long as steel production is properly ramped up. I think the market will be pretty saturated with MagnaCut in a couple of years.

To be completely clear I think that is awesome, I am really looking forward to MagnaCut but I just hope it doesn't prevent a regular production tool steel line out of Golden.

[DougC-3]

I would at least like to see a few Golden models in K390 in the meantime, especially a Manix 2, either G-10 or lightweight. Given the corrosion possibility I guess G-10 would be better -- or better yet, LW with screw construction :cool:

I was thinking 4V would be good too, but I see that some put in the same category with S30V for edge retention and ease of sharpening (BHQ knife steel charts), but of course much better toughness and I think, a keener edge. Maybe it wouldn't bug St. Nicks too much, since theirs all have black blades.

Edit: Just saw that Larrin has 4V between CruWear and M4 in both toughness and edge retention. Edge retention a hair better than CruWear and toughness a little better than M4. Not bad!

[Vaugith]

Magnacut is in the same edge holding & toughness balance range area as 4v, cruwear, and M4, but with stainlessness. Those three make much less sense for this push because of that. I'm all in for a production k390, 10v, or Vanadis 8 Shaman and Millie though.

Larrin said in his magnacut article that 15000 lbs of it are going to be available mid July, and they're taking orders for more already, so I think it's going to roll out faster than some anticipate

[donutsrule]

FWIW...

The difference between m4 and Rex 45 would be more noticeable if you were doing dumb things with it (aka abuse). I can use Rex 45 in place of a can opener in a pinch with no noticeable edge damage.

As far as k390 vs s110v, s110v has insane wear resistance and will cut through boxes forever but k390 wins by miles on edge strength/stability, fine edge holding (aka shaving arm hair, as opposed to working edge which saws through boxes just fine once the fine edge is gone) impact toughness and in my opinion sharpenability.

But, then again... :eek:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90023

[aaronkb]

FWIW...

The difference between m4 and Rex 45 would be more noticeable if you were doing dumb things with it (aka abuse). I can use Rex 45 in place of a can opener in a pinch with no noticeable edge damage.

As far as k390 vs s110v, s110v has insane wear resistance and will cut through boxes forever but k390 wins by miles on edge strength/stability, fine edge holding (aka shaving arm hair, as opposed to working edge which saws through boxes just fine once the fine edge is gone) impact toughness and in my opinion sharpenability.

But, then again... :eek:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90023

I don’t think I can sleep until I find out wtf he did

[kobold]

This is the mental image of me waiting for the Millie in Maxamet:

[Team Sick]

K390 PM 2 or 3 or Shaman would be cool! That's all I have to say.