What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#41

Post by JRinFL »

$6000! <cough> My truck isn't worth $6000 even after the transmission rebuild.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#42

Post by lilshaver »

ladybug93 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:12 pm
the way things seem to be going around here, after a mule, it will probably be the shaman. everyone seems to love the shaman except me. i'll take a g10 manix please. :)
Me too !
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#43

Post by awa54 »

Seems like the "new steel" launches are mostly coming out in the Para3LW, N5LW and M2LW.

I'll be happy if it's any model I would plausibly EDC that isn't over $150.

...though a G10 Manix, PM2/Para3, N5 or UKPK would undoubtedly convince me to pay a bit more... I already have too many Millies, but that would also be hard to pass up!
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#44

Post by attila »

A large run of Mules, a Military, and a Manix (either LW or G10) would be my choices.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5
.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#45

Post by Henry_P »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:56 am

The above speculation is for the first production model, not the very first release which I still think will be the Mule. Mules are made in Taiwan these days, I think, so I could be very wrong as to where the first production folder comes from.
There are several mules that are still made in the US. I know for sure my SPY27 mule was. I think the most obvious choice would be for the mule to be first before any production models. I do think the first folder will be a Golden, CO model.
Para 3 Maxamet | Para 3 CruWear DLC | Smock M4 Jade G-10 | Shaman Z-Wear Micarta | Salt 2 LC200N Wharnie | Chaparral Birdseye Maple | Lil’ Native S90V CF | Dragonfly 2 20CV | Ladybug K390 | CRK Small Sebenza 31 S45VN PJ
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#46

Post by Gtscotty »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:17 am
$6000! <cough> My truck isn't worth $6000 even after the transmission rebuild.
Ughhhh. For real, that's as much as a nice PRS rig or a used car with a lot of life in it, or a months rent in San Fran ;)

Certainly the hype machine is turned up to 11 on this one. MagnaCut looks like it's going to be a nice balanced steel for a lot of knives, but it's not magic. Per Larrin's charts, at it's hardest, MagnaCut barely bumps up into the bottom end CATRA range for S30V while maintaining nominal S35VN toughness. Run soft, toughness increases but the CATRA score is below S35VN.

This is obviously not a bad spot on the chart to sit, and it's going be a great standard option, but we're not talking lightsaber performance to back up those lightsaber prices.

Image
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#47

Post by Fireman »

:winking-tongue Mule Team Army 001
MNOSD 008 :usflag
Image Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#48

Post by kennethsime »

Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:44 am
MagnaCut releases in order:

1st - Mule Team 43

2nd - Shaman with Special Edition $100 bill paper Micarta scales.

3rd - Delica 4 as the modern stainless upgrade the D4 so badly needs/deserves.
:D :D :D

We laugh, but that $3,000 knife will be on the bay the very same day it launches for $6k.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#49

Post by S-3 ranch »

Stretch 2 or native 5
I doubt we will see much magna in the general public release, heck I would like some spy27 knives and that seems difficult
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#50

Post by JRinFL »

Henry_P wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:11 am
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:56 am

The above speculation is for the first production model, not the very first release which I still think will be the Mule. Mules are made in Taiwan these days, I think, so I could be very wrong as to where the first production folder comes from.

There are several mules that are still made in the US. I know for sure my SPY27 mule was.
I think the most obvious choice would be for the mule to be first before any production models. I do think the first folder will be a Golden, CO model.
Good to know! Thanks.

It makes me more certain it will be US Mule, followed by US folder(s).
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#51

Post by JRinFL »

Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:17 am
$6000! <cough> My truck isn't worth $6000 even after the transmission rebuild.
Ughhhh. For real, that's as much as a nice PRS rig or a used car with a lot of life in it, or a months rent in San Fran ;)

Certainly the hype machine is turned up to 11 on this one. MagnaCut looks like it's going to be a nice balanced steel for a lot of knives, but it's not magic. Per Larrin's charts, at it's hardest, MagnaCut barely bumps up into the bottom end CATRA range for S30V while maintaining nominal S35VN toughness. Run soft, toughness increases but the CATRA score is below S35VN.

This is obviously not a bad spot on the chart to sit, and it's going be a great standard option, but we're not talking lightsaber performance to back up those lightsaber prices.

Image
Agreed.

I feel that Larrin designed it to be a ubiquitous stainless steel for cutlery and not some over-priced, over-hyped, boutique steel.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#52

Post by Evil D »

S-3 ranch wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:05 am
Stretch 2 or native 5
I doubt we will see much magna in the general public release, heck I would like some spy27 knives and that seems difficult



Spy27 is another one I'm waiting for a SE option in. There are certainly a lot of irons in the fire (pun intended).
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#53

Post by Larrin »

Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am
Certainly the hype machine is turned up to 11 on this one. MagnaCut looks like it's going to be a nice balanced steel for a lot of knives, but it's not magic. Per Larrin's charts, at it's hardest, MagnaCut barely bumps up into the bottom end CATRA range for S30V while maintaining nominal S35VN toughness. Run soft, toughness increases but the CATRA score is below S35VN.

This is obviously not a bad spot on the chart to sit, and it's going be a great standard option, but we're not talking lightsaber performance to back up those lightsaber prices.
If you look at the chart you'll see that it is much easier to get more wear resistance by moving to another steel than by increasing hardness. So I wouldn't necessarily do a comparison like 65 Rc MagnaCut vs 61 Rc S35VN/S30V. Unless the idea of the same wear resistance but higher hardness is intriguing to you (more important than pure wear resistance in many circumstances). In general I am not in favor of comparing steels only by slicing edge retention. It is too big of a focus among knife enthusiasts these days. We can make a steel with a higher wear resistance, that isn't difficult. Tougher, finer microstructure steels that are also stainless is where the challenge has not been achieved in the past. Many steel "charts" online are just ranking steels by wear resistance and it is not a good way of doing it, in my opinion.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#54

Post by JRinFL »

Larrin wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:08 pm
Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am
Certainly the hype machine is turned up to 11 on this one. MagnaCut looks like it's going to be a nice balanced steel for a lot of knives, but it's not magic. Per Larrin's charts, at it's hardest, MagnaCut barely bumps up into the bottom end CATRA range for S30V while maintaining nominal S35VN toughness. Run soft, toughness increases but the CATRA score is below S35VN.

This is obviously not a bad spot on the chart to sit, and it's going be a great standard option, but we're not talking lightsaber performance to back up those lightsaber prices.
If you look at the chart you'll see that it is much easier to get more wear resistance by moving to another steel than by increasing hardness. So I wouldn't necessarily do a comparison like 65 Rc MagnaCut vs 61 Rc S35VN/S30V. Unless the idea of the same wear resistance but higher hardness is intriguing to you (more important than pure wear resistance in many circumstances). In general I am not in favor of comparing steels only by slicing edge retention. It is too big of a focus among knife enthusiasts these days. We can make a steel with a higher wear resistance, that isn't difficult. Tougher, finer microstructure steels that are also stainless is where the challenge has not been achieved in the past. Many steel "charts" online are just ranking steels by wear resistance and it is not a good way of doing it, in my opinion.
Steels should be charted using a 3 axis chart. I think it would make it easier to visualize all three commonly discussed attributes, edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance. Relying on the one attribute lists feels like it could lead us too far down the wrong path.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#55

Post by Gtscotty »

Larrin wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:08 pm
Gtscotty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am
Certainly the hype machine is turned up to 11 on this one. MagnaCut looks like it's going to be a nice balanced steel for a lot of knives, but it's not magic. Per Larrin's charts, at it's hardest, MagnaCut barely bumps up into the bottom end CATRA range for S30V while maintaining nominal S35VN toughness. Run soft, toughness increases but the CATRA score is below S35VN.

This is obviously not a bad spot on the chart to sit, and it's going be a great standard option, but we're not talking lightsaber performance to back up those lightsaber prices.
If you look at the chart you'll see that it is much easier to get more wear resistance by moving to another steel than by increasing hardness. So I wouldn't necessarily do a comparison like 65 Rc MagnaCut vs 61 Rc S35VN/S30V. Unless the idea of the same wear resistance but higher hardness is intriguing to you (more important than pure wear resistance in many circumstances). In general I am not in favor of comparing steels only by slicing edge retention. It is too big of a focus among knife enthusiasts these days. We can make a steel with a higher wear resistance, that isn't difficult. Tougher, finer microstructure steels that are also stainless is where the challenge has not been achieved in the past. Many steel "charts" online are just ranking steels by wear resistance and it is not a good way of doing it, in my opinion.
Same wear resistance as nominal S30V + higher hardness, the toughness of S35VN and corrosion resistance of 20CV is exactly what intrigues me about MagnaCut. That's why I'm mostly interested in it in the 63-65 HRC range, that's where it looks really unique. I'm not really all that interested in lower HRC MagnaCut because honestly for what I use my small knives for S35VN is tough enough, and I haven't really had any chipping problems, so I don't see that I really need more toughness.

It was not my intent to focus solely on wear resistance, that's why I tried to mention toughness at relative wear resistances. I understand that steels and heat treats are a balance of often inversely related material properties, and the balance for a given application is what matters.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#56

Post by Blnd »

If they want to blow the doors off sales then introduce the Military 2 with Magnacut.


Otherwise it will be a PM2/3 (lame).

I’ll take A dragonfly2 though.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#57

Post by sal »

Hey Larrin,

Thanx for chiming in. I've got a challenge for you. I've been thinking of a way to make a chart that would take the 3 factors; Corrosion resistance, Toughness and abrasion resistance and present them in some way that forms a triangle and the shape of the triangle would give you an interesting way of comparing? I think if anyone can come up with it, you can.

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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#58

Post by sal »

As far as introduction with Spyderco, I'd druther begin with a bunch of Mule Teams so we can get them out to ELU's. And Larrin, Please make sure we your optimal heat treat. It will be Eric's call on models. We did order quite a bit of steel. For me, I think a Para 2 or 3 and a Shaman.

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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#59

Post by Larrin »

sal wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:38 pm
Hey Larrin,

Thanx for chiming in. I've got a challenge for you. I've been thinking of a way to make a chart that would take the 3 factors; Corrosion resistance, Toughness and abrasion resistance and present them in some way that forms a triangle and the shape of the triangle would give you an interesting way of comparing? I think if anyone can come up with it, you can.

sal
What you’re describing sounds similar to a spider chart. BladeHQ does something similar though they include ease of sharpening for a fourth rating. I’m not a big fan of the ratings they have though. I’m trying to help them improve the ratings but it’s going slowly right now.
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Re: What Will Be The First Magnacut Model?

#60

Post by Larrin »

sal wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:44 pm
As far as introduction with Spyderco, I'd druther begin with a bunch of Mule Teams so we can get them out to ELU's. And Larrin, Please make sure we your optimal heat treat. It will be Eric's call on models. We did order quite a bit of steel. For me, I think a Para 2 or 3 and a Shaman.

sal
I will of course help however I can with heat treating. Those models sound like good choices!
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