Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
JD Spydo
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Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#1

Post by JD Spydo »

OK I guess the title is a bit elusive and leaves you wide open as to what I'm getting at :rolleyes: . And maybe we're all a group of totally spoiled rotten guys and gals who have probably had our way much too much. But what I'm mainly speaking of is how many of us Spyderco fans have become "Steel Snobs". Whereas most commercial knife companies don't seem to give a hoot about their blade steel selection?

I just did a recent post over at the current Boker thread over at OFF TOPIC concerning their continued use of older blade steels. And my latest post asked why Boker hasn't kept up with all the newer/better blade steels like Spyderco and a small handful of other knife companies has. Because for a long time I've really wondered why Boker who has a lot of really intriguing designs but yet seem to be content with blade steels out of the "buggy whip" era. I could say the same about 5 other great knife companies I've adored over the years that just don't keep up with all the newer available blade steels :confused: . And why so many other companies are still using stuff like 440C, AUS-8 and even ATS-34 when our dearly beloved Spyderco has long, long ago moved on from those blade steels?

Or is it like I just mentioned that guys and gals like us have just gotten spoiled rotten and become arrogant steel snobs ??? :cool: Wouldn't you all think that more knife companies would be more competitive with newer, high end materials? What gives?
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#2

Post by Airlsee »

Definitely the reason Spyderco is hands down, without a doubt, my favorite knife company.

Call me spoiled, I'd have it no other way.

The fact that Sal & Eric are genuine knife junkies probably has a lot to do with that...
Last edited by Airlsee on Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
So it goes.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#3

Post by M Sea »

Happily Spoiled!! 🕷🕷🕷
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#4

Post by ykspydiefan »

My answer to the thread question, yes. Then, yes again, steel snobs for sure, but the level of arrogance and rottenness is really an individual thing, so I can not answer that question.

What gives? It appears to me that Spyderco attracts people that like to learn and apply new knowledge. The forum is a good example of people who are willing to read a lot and write a lot and communicate and be involved in knives. This is very different than a person who spends $30 on a knife that "looks" good and does not care otherwise. Or, buys a new knife when their priority is loading up on fishing tackle for the season. Spyder-Heads prioritize and maximize knives.

There was a thread recently about, Most Underestimated Steel, and I wanted to post, "all powder steels and most of what Spyderco does." I have not yet met a person where I live who has heard of powder steel. I have given up on trying to explain LC200N vs stainless steel.

I like to think that Spyder-Heads are like the edge of the knife, sharp and separating fact from fiction with science and knowledge.(thanks Larrin for the help) Other knife users are like the handle, just getting a grip on a knife. Others are like the spine, the same steel as the edge but oh boy are they dull. It takes all the parts to make a knife, and all these different people to use them.

I am happy to have found Spyderco and a way to focus my knife hobby and bring more depth to it, other than the depth of the slice. I am also surprised some times at how nerdy it gets. More surprised by the hoarding and flippy nature of the Sprint/Exclusive game. And, I can not understand in the least why a person would pay 3x or more over retail for a knife. History has clearly shown that the next best knife is yet to come. Then another comes along. Once Magnacut is available, it will be improved with 4X edge retention. So, yes I see some rottenness and I have been rotten too.

The best part of the Spyder-Head minority for me is the forum. It really is a unique community that helps release the rot and bring the best parts of the forum user to the front.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#5

Post by soc_monki »

I think Sal and the gang just like there to be choices, and the chance to try out different steels. Personally, I'm happy with S30v, or M4, or 20cv. Those are pretty ubiquitous these days. However, I don't mind my bucks in 420hc or 440c, or even some of my cheap knives in 8cr13mov.

However, I do believe that we who actually know about blade steels are a minority. Almost everyone I work with just buys a cheap Ozark Trail knife, or has a case, or whatever, and some say "stainless steel is junk, carbon is the best" without even knowing that there is more than just one type of stainless or carbon steel. Some are even confused why all my knives just have one blade. I mean, to each their own, but I like my larger locking, single blade folders better than traditional multi blade slip joints. But if a slip joint works for you, that's great!

I tried explaining the difference between steels, heat treats, and all that jazz before. I just got blank stares. Some people just don't care about all that. They just want a tool that works. Some can sharpen. Most are amazed at how sharp my knives are, and I have sharpened a few for others.

We are just weird, man.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#6

Post by p_atrick »

Kizer and We are introducing more M390/20CV in their lineup. Hinderer defaults to 20CV now as well.

There's a weird dichotomy about Spyderco. For all the work they hves done with blade steels, there are still videos out there where the reviewer is disappointed that the latest knife still comes in S30V or VG-10.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#7

Post by Abyss_Fish »

Tbh it’s the reason I don’t have much from other companies. It takes a lot to convince me a company is doing their heat treatment correctly.

M390 from random Chinese factory number 6 doesn’t do nearly as well as even spyderco’s standards like s30v, or in the worst cases their vg10… I do trust folks like Buck who do their treatment externally through BOS though, I know a few companies do that.


tl;dr I’m not a snob I just want my knife to function.
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Current spydie collection: Watu, Rhino, UKPK Salt G10 bladeswap, Yojimbo 2 Smooth G10 Cru-Wear, Manix lw “mystic” 20cv, SmallFly 2, Waterway, Ladybug k390, Caribbean
Current favorite steels: sg2/R2, lc200n/Z-FiNit, 3v
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#8

Post by kennethsime »

Regarding steel, there are a few reasons that I'd rather buy a knife from Spyderco than pretty much any other knife company out there.
  • They have an excellent selection of high-end steel in affordable packages
  • They run their steel hard
  • They have good slicing geometry
  • It also helps that I quite enjoy a lot of Spyderco's ergonomics, but I digress
A lot of companies are afraid of innovation, and stay in their comfort zone with steel (i.e. 1095, 420HC, even S30V). They're also often afraid of hardening their steel to its full potential. It just feels like a "missed opportunity" every time I buy a knife from a company like that.

In one of the recent Blade Show videos, Tim Reeve mentions that he really doesn't like having multiple steels inn the workshop at the same time - I guess it adds confusion to the production process? I love CRK, they product some excellent knives, but man - you'd think they could figure that one out. Guess it just goes to show how much skill and experience Spyderco has to offer.
Last edited by kennethsime on Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#9

Post by James Y »

soc_monki wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:23 am
I think Sal and the gang just like there to be choices, and the chance to try out different steels. Personally, I'm happy with S30v, or M4, or 20cv. Those are pretty ubiquitous these days. However, I don't mind my bucks in 420hc or 440c, or even some of my cheap knives in 8cr13mov.

However, I do believe that we who actually know about blade steels are a minority. Almost everyone I work with just buys a cheap Ozark Trail knife, or has a case, or whatever, and some say "stainless steel is junk, carbon is the best" without even knowing that there is more than just one type of stainless or carbon steel. Some are even confused why all my knives just have one blade. I mean, to each their own, but I like my larger locking, single blade folders better than traditional multi blade slip joints. But if a slip joint works for you, that's great!

I tried explaining the difference between steels, heat treats, and all that jazz before. I just got blank stares. Some people just don't care about all that. They just want a tool that works. Some can sharpen. Most are amazed at how sharp my knives are, and I have sharpened a few for others.

We are just weird, man.

IMO, knife afi’s aren’t necessarily weird, but in fact are similar to those who are heavily into (some might say obsessive about) any other subjects. Meaning, we have become aware of, and care about, many aspects of the subject we’re interested in, that those outside of the hobby are unaware of and/or simply don’t care about; nor should they have to.

For instance, I’m NOT passionate about high-end cars; nor am I into watches, the latest tech devices, video gaming, rap music, etc. I AM into knives, martial arts, alternate subjects (which include the paranormal, etc.), rock music history, and several other interests…interests that people who are not into them neither understand nor care about. That’s OK, too.

That’s why it is great that we have this forum as such an outstanding resource of shared information. Fans like myself get to pick and choose how far down the rabbit hole of steel choices and model choices we want to go down. Some go way deep. Others, like me, are content to linger at the shallow end and not venture too far down that hole. :)

Jim
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#10

Post by JD Spydo »

I guess I really wasn't thorough enough when I posed the rhetorical question concerning "Blade Steel Snobery" that many people accuse us of >> because for many years myself I never paid much mind to which blade steel a knife was made with. But on the other hand I was always demanding cutlery with superior quality. Because even back in my old teenage years I never ever went "bargain hunting" for knives, or anything else for that matter. I would just save up the money and get something worth having.

I would rather have one premium quality knife than to have a whole drawer full of "Rip-Mart" junkers. My favorite uncle instilled in me at an early age>> That I would be much better off to have a little bit of "SOMETHING" than a large quanity of "NOTHING" >> or an abundance of low quality crap that won't last till the next payday.

I was getting just a bit more selective of different blade steels when I got my first Spyderco folder in 1995. Even at that time I was aware of high rated blade steels like ATS-34 ( which was premium at one time) and was subscribing to 4 different knife magazines. I'm down to 2 now :rolleyes: . But Spyderco even took it to another level with designs, innovations and improvements. When I got to meet Sal & Eric Glesser the first time ever at the 2001 BLADE Show I immediately realized that this was not your hardware store type knife company like I was used to in the past. Nope these guys were taking knives to a much higher level and raising the bar to a point to where very few other companies would even attempt to compete with. And the high caliber blade steels that they put in the premium models in many ways were like icing on the cake so to speak.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#11

Post by JD Spydo »

James Y wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:22 pm
soc_monki wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:23 am
I think Sal and the gang just like there to be choices, and the chance to try out different steels. Personally, I'm happy with S30v, or M4, or 20cv. Those are pretty ubiquitous these days. However, I don't mind my bucks in 420hc or 440c, or even some of my cheap knives in 8cr13mov.

However, I do believe that we who actually know about blade steels are a minority. Almost everyone I work with just buys a cheap Ozark Trail knife, or has a case, or whatever, and some say "stainless steel is junk, carbon is the best" without even knowing that there is more than just one type of stainless or carbon steel. Some are even confused why all my knives just have one blade. I mean, to each their own, but I like my larger locking, single blade folders better than traditional multi blade slip joints. But if a slip joint works for you, that's great!

I tried explaining the difference between steels, heat treats, and all that jazz before. I just got blank stares. Some people just don't care about all that. They just want a tool that works. Some can sharpen. Most are amazed at how sharp my knives are, and I have sharpened a few for others.

We are just weird, man.

IMO, knife afi’s aren’t necessarily weird, but in fact are similar to those who are heavily into (some might say obsessive about) any other subjects. Meaning, we have become aware of, and care about, many aspects of the subject we’re interested in, that those outside of the hobby are unaware of and/or simply don’t care about; nor should they have to.

For instance, I’m NOT passionate about high-end cars; nor am I into watches, the latest tech devices, video gaming, rap music, etc. I AM into knives, martial arts, alternate subjects (which include the paranormal, etc.), rock music history, and several other interests…interests that people who are not into them neither understand nor care about. That’s OK, too.

That’s why it is great that we have this forum as such an outstanding resource of shared information. Fans like myself get to pick and choose how far down the rabbit hole of steel choices and model choices we want to go down. Some go way deep. Others, like me, are content to linger at the shallow end and not venture too far down that hole. :)

Jim
Another way to look at all of that Jim is that there are always relatively few people out there that are willing to sacrifice their cash to obtain a tool of a much higher level. My favorite Uncle really instilled that in me when he gave me my first D.A.M. Quick German made fishing reel. I immediately realized that Zebco and other discount brands were no longer going to be what I used to fish with. A person that truly appreciates quality will never be happy with any amount of mediocre, bargain basement items.

I actually got turned onto Benchmade a couple of years before I got my first Spyderco folder. And I could immediately sense that even BM were in a completely different league all together compared to your mainline hardware store knives. I think that "Appreciation of Quality" can easily get confused with perceived "Steel Snobbery" or "snobbery" of any other type as far as that goes.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#12

Post by Matus »

I am not rotting, that is my natural odor ...
... I like weird :bug-red :bug-white-red :bug-white ...
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#13

Post by lilshaver »

Spoiled - yes
Steel snob - yes
That is why I hang out here.
These days nothing is anyone's fault so Spyderco it must be your fault.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#14

Post by Evil D »

Steel snob is one way to look at it, but another way to just that steel options are a massive part of this hobby, so much so that it's practically the biggest attraction. Would we all be here on this forum everyday talking about knives if they only ever came in one steel? I guess we could obsess over ergonomics more but what else is there? Steel variety basically IS the knife life.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#15

Post by JRinFL »

I guess we are a bit “snobbish” when it comes to steel choices. We often pass over perfectly good steels, that are well matched to to users needs, for something that’s just a bit better in one category.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#16

Post by Naperville »

In high school I started developing an interest in stereo systems, the military, martial arts, cars and motorcycles. I read everything that I could on the subjects and in some way I suppose you could call me a snob on the subject matter, but it was just a matter of being more informed in how things work and what makes a better widget.

If Spyderco were designing transmissions, you just know that they would deliver the shot-peened, undercut cogs in their transmissions with the best steels available. If Spyderco were designing cars, they would be making the Cadillac sports cars that compete head to head with BMW M Series and Mercedes AMG. Only people in the know recognise the extra mile taken to design those cars and that is what makes a Spyderco knife. What makes Spyderco unique is that they do it on a regular basis more often than not, while other manufacturers do it once in a while.

I have a small collection of a variety of knife manufacturers wares but my Spyderco knives are at the top of the heap as far as steel selection and design. Spyderco materials and design are a cut above. I have a couple of Benchmade knives, and a handful of Cold Steel knives that employed great steels in their manufacture but my Spyderco knives are still that much better.

Where are you going to obtain a full size fixed blade like the Sustain in 20CV or Province in 4V other than Spyderco? At 3 times the cost possibly from a custom maker. Spyderco folders excel too in a variety of steels and shapes, something for everyone.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#17

Post by James Y »

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:49 pm

Another way to look at all of that Jim is that there are always relatively few people out there that are willing to sacrifice their cash to obtain a tool of a much higher level. My favorite Uncle really instilled that in me when he gave me my first D.A.M. Quick German made fishing reel. I immediately realized that Zebco and other discount brands were no longer going to be what I used to fish with. A person that truly appreciates quality will never be happy with any amount of mediocre, bargain basement items.

I actually got turned onto Benchmade a couple of years before I got my first Spyderco folder. And I could immediately sense that even BM were in a completely different league all together compared to your mainline hardware store knives. I think that "Appreciation of Quality" can easily get confused with perceived "Steel Snobbery" or "snobbery" of any other type as far as that goes.
[/quote]


Joe,

I do agree that a high percentage of people look at price first, and often turn away from higher-quality products that cost more, even if the latter products would outperform and outlast the former products, and probably end up saving money on replacements in the long run.

I first heard of Spyderco in 1997, when, for some reason, I received an unsolicited knife catalog in the mail from some knife dealer in Washington State. That was the first time I ever heard of Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, Case (yes, Case; none of the stores I frequented as a kid in the ‘70s carried Case knives), and a number of other, lesser knife companies that have probably come and gone (Rigid, etc.). My first quality one-hand opener was actually a Kershaw Liner Action, which I’d seen in the catalog and bought at a knife shop. But soon after, I bought a Delica (which was also shown in that catalog) at a sporting goods store, and I found it was far more ergonomic and easier to use. Although that wasn’t my last time buying other brands’ knives, I’ve always drifted back to Spyderco. Now the only two brands I’m really interested in and use the most are Victorinox and Spyderco.

I do feel there can be a difference between being picky and being a snob. I’m very picky about things I’ll buy and use, including knives, but I don’t see myself as a snob. I still like SAKs and their steel. I still like VG-10. I also want to try knives in Magnacut and SPY27. I’m not interested in ALL of the steels other members rave about.

If someone showed me an ‘inferior’ quality knife to mine, I would not feel the need to one-up him or educate him, if he wasn’t asking for my opinion and was simply happy to show his knife. If I said anything, it might be something like, “Cool. I’ll bet that’s pretty handy.” A snob might feel the impulse to smirk and tell him how badly his knife sucks, then lecture him on the latest metallurgical advances in blade steels. Which, depending on the tone, would most likely go over the other person’s head, bore him, and/or make him come away feeling belittled.

*Note: I wrote “him” in the above example for simplicity’s sake, but it could be a him or a her.

Jim
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#18

Post by prndltech »

I think it says more about the owners than us :D
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#19

Post by Loki.88 »

Personally i'm not really a steel snob. VG10 worked for me for years and now seems to be "kitchen steel". I carry my knife more then i cut with, and when it gets dull i sharpen it (which i like). I have a few lifetimes of spyderco's to wear out so steel isn't all that important for me. Ergonomics, lock strength, wearability and quality are, for me, evenly important.
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Re: Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

#20

Post by Abyss_Fish »

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:19 pm
It just feels like a "missed opportunity" every time I buy a knife from a company like that.
My feelings exactly
Lightly insane.

Current spydie collection: Watu, Rhino, UKPK Salt G10 bladeswap, Yojimbo 2 Smooth G10 Cru-Wear, Manix lw “mystic” 20cv, SmallFly 2, Waterway, Ladybug k390, Caribbean
Current favorite steels: sg2/R2, lc200n/Z-FiNit, 3v
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