Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?

[jpm2]

I've been a blade steel snob since my 1st one made from hss in 1985.

[yablanowitz]

We are not "snobs", we are the enlightened few. Sal and company are more concerned with serving us than lining their pockets with our money. That makes them very nearly unique in the cutlery world. And since we are in fact a tiny minority of the knife-buying population of the world, there is no reason we shouldn't feel like it.

[sal]

Great question and discussion JD.

I would say that we try to serve a somewhat unique community of people that seek performance and quality as a higher priority. Also, there is nothing wrong with "peeling back the onion" which I must say that people here really are excellent. Al Mar taught me that sharing knowledge was a really valuable human behavior trait, and like all of you I learn from my teachers and mentors, and sharing that "learning" is a unique and very valuable human quality ( Thanx much Al).

sal

[Mushroom]

Steel snob is one way to look at it, but another way to just that steel options are a massive part of this hobby, so much so that it's practically the biggest attraction. Would we all be here on this forum everyday talking about knives if they only ever came in one steel? I guess we could obsess over ergonomics more but what else is there? Steel variety basically IS the knife life.

I very much appreciate the variety in steel Spyderco offers us as ELU's but I would venture to say that variety of designs is a larger driving factor to "knife life" than steel variety.

Of course, having a multitude of phenomenal designs available in more steels than any other company is a great way to serve both the steel junkies and design fiends! :cool:

[ChrisinHove]

Knife afi’s occupy a world where material science, the physics of work, ergonomics, and the human desire to accumulate all intersect in an accessible and relatively affordable way.

I think Spyderco manages to address each of those, to a greater or lesser extent with each model, but even more so on an individual trait and model basis, based on a formidably comprehensive and evolving catalogue.

Does any other manufacturer pay as much attention to the steel? There’s your answer.

[Airlsee]

Knife afi’s occupy a world where material science, the physics of work, ergonomics, and the human desire to accumulate all intersect in an accessible and relatively affordable way.

I think Spyderco manages to address each of those, to a greater or lesser extent with each model, but even more so on an individual trait and model basis, based on a formidably comprehensive and evolving catalogue.

Does any other manufacturer pay as much attention to the steel? There’s your answer.

Very well put.

[MFlovejp]

No other company that I know of has more variety, nor puts as much thought and research in to the steels they use. I would not say, however, that Spyderco fans are the only people who demand and appreciate higher-end steels. Especially these days when so many seem to be convinced that S30V is not even fit for a butter knife.

[JD Spydo]

Again my basic question in this thread is "Why Don't More Knife Companies Try To Go All Out For Better Blade Steels On Their Knives?>> or just better overall materials for all features of their products? I don't think I've ever encountered a company that goes all out for their customer base like Spyderco does.

To some degree I could name off about 4 other companies that make a half hearted attempt to replicate what Spyderco has done. It wasn't even until the mid nineties that you finally seen most of the knife publications putting up graphs/charts that give all the stats on each knife including the blade steel a certain knife is made with.

[James Y]

Again my basic question in this thread is "Why Don't More Knife Companies Try To Go All Out For Better Blade Steels On Their Knives?>> or just better overall materials for all features of their products? I don't think I've ever encountered a company that goes all out for their customer base like Spyderco does.

To some degree I could name off about 4 other companies that make a half hearted attempt to replicate what Spyderco has done. It wasn't even until the mid nineties that you finally seen most of the knife publications putting up graphs/charts that give all the stats on each knife including the blade steel a certain knife is made with.

The only sure way to know why more companies aren't doing it is if the president of another given company gives an answer why. Which probably won't ever happen. Otherwise, all we can do is speculate.

For example: Maybe other companies are so far behind, as far as trying new and different steels, that the idea of catching up seems overwhelming.

Or maybe each company feels they've found their own niche in the knife market that makes THEM stand out in their own way. So possibly their customers are perfectly happy with fewer steel options, because they love their knife designs or lock types so much and don't want too many changes.

Or perhaps the cost to work with so many steels is prohibitive to other companies.

But these are just speculations. Anybody's guess is as good as anybody else's.

Jim

[yablanowitz]

Short answer: Other companies are driven entirely by profit margin. They go by volume of sales, so they chase the lowest price point which is where the largest volumes are. The vast majority of knife sales in the world are to people who know nothing about knives and turn up their noses at premium steels simply because they cost too much. Why would they take a chance on losing 90% of their customer base trying to chase the 1% who actually know and appreciate those premium steels?

[GarageBoy]

If Spyderco were designing transmissions, you just know that they would deliver the shot-peened, undercut cogs in their transmissions with the best steels available. If Spyderco were designing cars, they would be making the Cadillac sports cars that compete head to head with BMW M Series and Mercedes AMG. Only people in the know recognise the extra mile taken to design those cars and that is what makes a Spyderco knife. What makes Spyderco unique is that they do it on a regular basis more often than not, while other manufacturers do it once in a while.

Knife nuts complain the same way car nuts do - if it was up to car nerds, all manufacturers would make would be brown, manual transmission, sports wagons. I guess in that way, s30v has become the cuv of knife steels. It's perfectly adequate, and 99% of knife users are more than thrilled with it, just like how most car buyers are fine buying a RAV4/crv etc. But the knife nerds thinks that companies should only cater to them.

[JRinFL]

AEB-L in HRC 61-63 would likely be less expensive and cover 99% of users needs, but it lacks the trendy elements and is "old" so it gets ignored. At least we get to pay more for what we don't actually get any real-world benefits from.

[James Y]

I'm one of those who actually likes S30V. It's always been a good steel to me. But I suppose I've also fallen a bit into the desire to try a new steel like Magnacut or SPY27. I have so many knives in S30V already, to get another it would have to be fully DLC'd, like my G10 Manix 2. Because the only issue I've ever had with uncoated S30V is slight rusting (but mostly in the jimping).

Jim

[Grizzly]

Again my basic question in this thread is "Why Don't More Knife Companies Try To Go All Out For Better Blade Steels On Their Knives?>> or just better overall materials for all features of their products? I don't think I've ever encountered a company that goes all out for their customer base like Spyderco does.

To some degree I could name off about 4 other companies that make a half hearted attempt to replicate what Spyderco has done. It wasn't even until the mid nineties that you finally seen most of the knife publications putting up graphs/charts that give all the stats on each knife including the blade steel a certain knife is made with.

I'm new here so please forgive whatever ignorance may shine forth, but I have been observing the "customer base" here at Spyderco. At least those who participate in this forum. The one thing I see on occasion is the desire to hear from folks who actually use these Spyderco knives hard and work them often and daily, either at work or home or on the farm or out in the fields. So many knives were made over the years to fill a real need. Skinning buffalo years ago probably produced a surge in knife designs and steel quality and hardness. I'm sure those folks, just like modern day butchers seek out knife designs within certain perameters and with some compromises to find the knife that will stay sharp long, sharpen quickly and fill the hand for most users. Each trade and industries needs may shape how a knife is made. Would a g10 Stretch or a FRN Endela be better for skinning a hide off a large animal? For me. the thinner handle of the FRN seems to be lighter and more nimble in the hand for that application but the belly of the Stretch is more usefull and could be even greater. I've had to stop part way through a hog skinning to resharpen an older Gerber Gator. That didn't take too long. Does the buying public prefer quick touchups, a second knife or a sit down with diamonds? How many large animals can a tool steel knife get through compared to a basic steel with touch ups along the way? Which does the buying public prefer? They would certainly like to be able to get through the job at hand and brag on their knife's ability to do so. But unless you are going to stop and touch up, you need to upgrade the steel. This is probably when D2 and the 134s were turned to. Now look at what is available.

The other day I had to clear out a compacted garden tiller (small cultivator actually) where the tines were completely full of the weeds and vines along with dried and still damp mud from the last use. I really wish I'd had my K390 Endela with me or better yet a K390 Endura or Military in a tool steel for the job just to see how the blade lasted. The blade I did use was an ordinary steel polished very sharp on a xf Spyderco Ceramic. It sliced through like butter and I admit I was afraid to look at the blade when I was all done. It had been completely dulled but still had a decent bevel and touched up easily on diamond plates. The tines had scratched the sides of the blade but had not hurt the edge other than dulling it.

But what I seem to see here with the Spyderco base are mostly cardboard cutters today. But hey, most of my hard blade usage is behind me and I too mostly use a knife anymore for letters, packages, string and whatever the day may produce. So, are we theoretical users or hard users that actually prove a product we rely upon. Who here would scrape a battery terminal with an expensive knive in their pocket. I did for years with a 1095 stockman along with peeling wires, cutting plastic, foam or just digging through dirt to find what needed to be worked on. In a way I wish I had one of these tool steel knives years ago that would stay sharp much longer until waiting untill all three blades were dull to sit down with an Arkansas stone years ago. Now I'm ready with diamonds and ceramics but most aren't. And, most probably have dull knives in their pockets and kitchens too.

It seems like most of the Spyderco base is comprised of collectors. Granted, they are well informed and I'm sure many may use these knives hard. But I really don't see much "snobbishness" here. I'd just like to hear about more than cardboard. But we all tend to think differently about our knives. When I first got to Viet Nam Dad sent me a Swiss Army Knife. :confused: A SAK? Here? That certainly would not have been my choice, but Dad went through Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge and he thought I might need one. We are all so different.

[MFlovejp]

We are all so different.

I believe you've answered your own question with that final statement Grizzly. This forum enjoys the company of people who use their knives hard everyday as professional fisherman to those who are exclusively interested in collecting and protecting their knives, and would hesitate to use them even in cardboard if they thought there might be a staple. There's also everything else you can imagine in between. We all share the love for these great tools and the people who make them possible for us, and that's all that really matters.

[Menipo]

The answer to your question (Are We Spyder-Heads In the Blade Steel Minority?) is, in my opinion, obviously yes.

We are the minority because the vast majority the only thing they know about their knives is that they are made of steel (many, millions maybe, would even say that they are made of iron ...).

Spyderco is IMHO a peculiar company because its customers are peculiar. And vice versa. I suppose it is a process of mutual interaction that shapes the company on the one hand and the clients on the other. Probably if Spyderco increased its production 10 times, it would have trouble selling 90% of the increase. And if it were reduced to a tenth of the current one, 90% of us would be left with the unsatisfied desire to buy our favorite knives.

Spyderco would be difficult to understand without its peculiar clients (us) and the peculiar tastes that we have developed would be difficult to understand without Spyderco ...

[marty_bill_]

I believe after you've been around a while and I mean like 10+ years and come to realize all that matters is steel and geometry you end up here. At least that is how it worked for me. Right now my favorite is my Swayback. It's so sharp and I just really dig it!!

[hvarcz]

Because you dont need top steel for knive.
In my family there is wermacht boot knive from 2nd World War, wooden handle is gone, some steel is gone but it still works.
And it was used to make small woods from biger to start fire. Batoning with axe.

[Naperville]

If Spyderco were designing transmissions, you just know that they would deliver the shot-peened, undercut cogs in their transmissions with the best steels available. If Spyderco were designing cars, they would be making the Cadillac sports cars that compete head to head with BMW M Series and Mercedes AMG. Only people in the know recognise the extra mile taken to design those cars and that is what makes a Spyderco knife. What makes Spyderco unique is that they do it on a regular basis more often than not, while other manufacturers do it once in a while.

Knife nuts complain the same way car nuts do - if it was up to car nerds, all manufacturers would make would be brown, manual transmission, sports wagons. I guess in that way, s30v has become the cuv of knife steels. It's perfectly adequate, and 99% of knife users are more than thrilled with it, just like how most car buyers are fine buying a RAV4/crv etc. But the knife nerds thinks that companies should only cater to them.

Having had only sports cars since I started driving, or a van to drive my GSX-R750 to and from the track, I guess I'm a car nerd too.

[wrdwrght]

I’ll admit to being steel-curious. I have had some 23 named ones.

But I’m less curious now that Larrin, BBB, and others have made clear here that choices in heat-treat and geometry can lessen the potential of a steel’s recipe.

More intriguing to me now is how Spyderco has managed to stay out of its own way in bringing out the best in the wide variety of steels it has offered us.

But, even though my curiosity has shifted—from recipe-choice to design-decision—I guess I remain in the “blade-steel minority”.