FRN Take Over...

[Worm]

Are those Seki and Golden FRN (finishes?) really so different? Could anyone post a few close-ups of say a Delica and a Para 3?

Here you go: PacSalt 2 vs Native 5 LW


As many mentioned, same experience here:
all my Seki FRNs have slightly more grip (or higher friction) than my Golden FRNs.

[Matus]

Here you go: PacSalt 2 vs Native 5 LW
...

As many mentioned, same experience here:
all my Seki FRNs have slightly more grip (or higher friction) than my Golden FRNs.

Thank you. When one looks at the full size the difference becomes obvious. Also the edges seem to be rounded more on the PacSalt (the Native 5 does feel unnecessary edgy in hand). I guess it would be a question for Spyderco team why are the two approaches to FRN so different in Golden and Seki.

[aicolainen]

Same experience here. Like Seki FRN a lot. Not a big fan of CO FRCP.
The FRCP works, and is probably just as good or better from a technical perspective, but I prefer how the Seki FRN feels in hand.
Also the Taichung FRN seems to be very nice, based on my one data point, the Chaparral LW

[M Sea]

Love the FRN scales, more-so than the G-10 which are also great.

[Nate]

Guess I’m in the “all good, just different” camp on scale materials as well as steels.

One anecdote though is that for years I lusted over a g10 UKPK as an upgrade over my many frn examples. Was super excited about the HH version when it was announced. It arrived and met or exceeds expectations in every way... and largely sits in the box while the frns end up clipped iwb most of the time. Go figure.

[prndltech]

yep yep. Spyderedge and FRN is all I care to carry. 8 months straight with this guy...
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I need some of those purple “caps”…. What are they? Where did you find them?

[40mm]

yep yep. Spyderedge and FRN is all I care to carry. 8 months straight with this guy...
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I need some of those purple “caps”…. What are they? Where did you find them?

Those are the rubberized end caps that came with the sharpener. Had one before this with green caps. I believe it’s a Lansky crock stick sharpener. I sold my sharpmaker a while back and got this as a more minimal and portable setup. Since my only carry knife is that Dragonfly it’s working out just fine.

[40mm]

yep yep. Spyderedge and FRN is all I care to carry. 8 months straight with this guy...
thumbnail.jpg

I need some of those purple “caps”…. What are they? Where did you find them?

Those are the rubberized end caps that came with the sharpener. Had one before this with green caps. I believe it’s a Lansky multi sharpener. I sold my sharpmaker a while back and got this as a more minimal and portable setup. Since my only carry knife is that Dragonfly it’s working out just fine.

[40mm]

Another reason I love FRN so much is the ability to dye SOME of the colors but even more the ability to customize the shape. I've used my dremel to do all sorts of things to frn scales including creating choils, removing humps and bumps, and all around smoothing out.

[Spyderman91]

We try to offer enough variety that all of your preferences are available. However, we have found that G-10, with or without liners, has a "cost" tipping point. We've usually made a slab version of a new design to "test" market reception before tooling up for FRN.

However, lately, we've noticed that the G-10 "pilot test" fall short of giving us the information sought because the higher price significantly reduces sales.

We have recently gone straight to FRN tooling in models like the "Rock Jumper" because of the needed to hear more reaction on the handle forward concept.

This is far more complicated because of the artificially inexpensive value of the Chinese Yuan. We are competing with high tech knife manufacturing companies in China that have all of the equipment and technology, but they can offer their products with 1/6th the cost and make more profit even with lower price. Most of the American knife companies are heavily involved with Chinese production to be able to compete with price.

Making models in FRN gives us a better opportunity to compete. It does beg the question about American made products in the future?

sal

It's always a honor to have you chime in on the forums Sal, thank you for your insight.

It makes me a little sad to think about what the future holds for American made products.
I believe there will always be a demand for them, but they may become more of a "boutique" niche for a select few
than the majority of consumers (as most folks focus on price point). FRN seems like a viable way for Spyderco to stay in the game while offering the blades, and quality that everyone has come to know / expect from the brand.

I do agree and have always said that Spyderco has a knife for everyone one at every price.
I've definitely done my part to spread the bugs around and have gifted numerous Spydercos to close friends.
Not to get too deep into politics, but I do my best to avoid Chinese made products for my hobbies.
My first Spyderco was a gift and it was Tenacious. When I saw the China stamp I wasn't expecting much, but I was absolutely blown away by the quality of the knife. It also allowed me to get into the Spyderco brand.
Once that guy got confiscated after 3 years of pocket time. I wanted a "next level" Spyderco and I knew it had to be a
Golden made.

After that day they have been my main focus, as well as, other great American brands and there are definitely many!
I will continue to buy American products until I can't, but I do not mind buying knives from other democratic countries
(Taiwan, Japan, or Europe). Choice is the best weapon that the consumer has in their arsenal. When I buy American I feel like I am supporting my country, and the people in it knowing they were all paid a fair wage for their labor.

[Notsurewhy]

Guess I’m in the “all good, just different” camp on scale materials as well as steels.

One anecdote though is that for years I lusted over a g10 UKPK as an upgrade over my many frn examples. Was super excited about the HH version when it was announced. It arrived and met or exceeds expectations in every way... and largely sits in the box while the frns end up clipped iwb most of the time. Go figure.

So I grabbed a couple of knives out of the drawer to compare frn. My ukpk has edges kinda in between the native 5 lw and the endura I used for comparison. Not quite as square as the native or as rounded as the endura. Perhaps that's why you like the frn ukpk better than the g10?

It should be noted that I can't tell the difference in the handle edges unless I'm paying attention, so I may be less sensitive to subtle chamfering than others? I did notice that the sharpest thing on any of the handles, to my hands, is the jimping on the endura. None of it bothers me, but I can see that the edges on the native might be a problem during prolonged cutting into something hard (whittling maybe?) but I don't generally do that.

[Chuck James]

[/quote]
As a point of clarity, the bolded portion is incorrect per material data from Matweb for Nylon 6/6 30% and a material cut sheet for G-10 epoxy fiberglass composite from Laminated Plastics.

Nylon 6/6 30% is a common FRN, and on the very top end of a wide range, has significantly less tensile strength (29 ksi) than G-10 (38ksi crosswise, 45ksi lengthwise). Of course design matters as well as material strength, but having both types of designs, I don't see any real strength advantage for the FRN designs.

I think FRN is mostly a manufacturing cost reduction technique, as is liner deletion. Honestly my G-10 knives with or without liners, and FRN knives with liners tend to be smoother and easier to adjust to a good balance of minimal blade play and smooth action than my linerless FRN knives. I see the utility of linerless Salt knives, but for non-salt versions, liner deletion is a cost cutting measure IMO, that needs to be accompanied by a significant price cut for me to be interested.
[/quote]

Well said!!!

I think FRN on manix 2 size knives and larger is a bad choice.

[Worm]

Yes, both my UKPK LW FRNs (BD1N & S110V) have better grip than my Manix 2 LW, Para 3 LW & Native 5 LW.
I am not comparing the area with that bi-directional-texture. I compare the flat even surfaces of the "neat" FRN material.

I always thought it is because Seki models use different mold finishes (bead-blasted vs polished) and FRN-materials.
Maybe the UKPK uses a different FRN material than other Golden models.
If yes, I would like Spyderco trying it in other Golden models.

[Evil D]

I keep thinking about the shape of these molds and how they deliberately chose to make blocky square handles. It really baffles me. I wonder if rounded and contoured molds are more expensive? Why wouldn't you just add more radius to the corners on that Native 5? I understand not adding palm swells and such, I get that so many people (inexplicably) prefer flat wafer thin handles, but even those can be smoothed over and made more ergonomic. With G10 I understand it more because it's an additional machining step to contour everything, like with the Shaman scales I'm sure that adds to cost and production time but with FRN molds there has to be a reason beyond cost. Older Salt models are rounder and have softer handles, so why not current models too?

[Matus]

I keep thinking about the shape of these molds and how they deliberately chose to make blocky square handles. It really baffles me. I wonder if rounded and contoured molds are more expensive? Why wouldn't you just add more radius to the corners on that Native 5? I understand not adding palm swells and such, I get that so many people (inexplicably) prefer flat wafer thin handles, but even those can be smoothed over and made more ergonomic. With G10 I understand it more because it's an additional machining step to contour everything, like with the Shaman scales I'm sure that adds to cost and production time but with FRN molds there has to be a reason beyond cost. Older Salt models are rounder and have softer handles, so why not current models too?

+1 (here I would have preferred to be able to simply click 'Like', as there is nothing to add, really)

[elena86]

I am old school and I like the volcano pattern more than the new pattern. That being said some models almost beg to be made with FRN scales but there are models made for G10 or micarta. Military is one of them.

[Nate]

So I grabbed a couple of knives out of the drawer to compare frn. My ukpk has edges kinda in between the native 5 lw and the endura I used for comparison. Not quite as square as the native or as rounded as the endura. Perhaps that's why you like the frn ukpk better than the g10?

It should be noted that I can't tell the difference in the handle edges unless I'm paying attention, so I may be less sensitive to subtle chamfering than others? I did notice that the sharpest thing on any of the handles, to my hands, is the jimping on the endura. None of it bothers me, but I can see that the edges on the native might be a problem during prolonged cutting into something hard (whittling maybe?) but I don't generally do that.

I’m out of town right now so I can’t do a direct comparison, but would say it’s a mix of the g10 being a little blockier and heavier. Peel-ply is also coarser then the texturing on the UKPK frn. The differences are all pretty minor/subtle, but they add up to make a difference to me, especially in the warmer months when I’m likely to carry iwb in gym shorts most of the time.

I like both though and am definitely not looking to dump my HH UKPK. Just funny how things change, as initially I would only buy g10 and carbon fiber, but now many of my faves are frn.

[ladybug93]

So I grabbed a couple of knives out of the drawer to compare frn. My ukpk has edges kinda in between the native 5 lw and the endura I used for comparison. Not quite as square as the native or as rounded as the endura. Perhaps that's why you like the frn ukpk better than the g10?

It should be noted that I can't tell the difference in the handle edges unless I'm paying attention, so I may be less sensitive to subtle chamfering than others? I did notice that the sharpest thing on any of the handles, to my hands, is the jimping on the endura. None of it bothers me, but I can see that the edges on the native might be a problem during prolonged cutting into something hard (whittling maybe?) but I don't generally do that.

I’m out of town right now so I can’t do a direct comparison, but would say it’s a mix of the g10 being a little blockier and heavier. Peel-ply is also coarser then the texturing on the UKPK frn. The differences are all pretty minor/subtle, but they add up to make a difference to me, especially in the warmer months when I’m likely to carry iwb in gym shorts most of the time.

I like both though and am definitely not looking to dump my HH UKPK. Just funny how things change, as initially I would only buy g10 and carbon fiber, but now many of my faves are frn.

my pacific salt is definitely more comfortable iwb than my native salt. however, if i hadn't had both to compare, i wouldn't have given it a second thought when i clipped my native iwb. the other day i carried my caribbean iwb and it was more comfortable than the native, but it was also heavier, so it was more noticeable too. i guess what i'm trying to say is the pacific salt is king iwb, but it's not really an issue to carry the blockiest frn folder or even a heavy g10 knife iwb.

[James Y]

I'd be perfectly happy if Spydercoused nothing but FRN going forward. Don't think that'll happen but I like FRN so much more than any other handle material. I don't understand people saying FRN is more abrasive than G10 the way Spyderco textures them. The G10 is usually like sandpaper that tears up my pockets (with a few notable exceptions).

This.
In my experience Spydercos FRN knives are a lot "nicer" to the pocket than their G10 ones.
As said, this will probably be to a large part due to the smooth logo on the FRN, where the clip lands on.

This is interesting, because depending on where the clip lands on the FRN, I’ve found it can be worse for pockets than many of my G10 models. For example, all of my Militaries, both PM 2’s, my Manix 2, etc., are nicer on my pockets than many of my FRN models. Even if the clip presses on the FRN logo. Now, a model like the Yojumbo, with G10 scales that are purposely made rougher than normal, I wouldn’t even bother with.

Jim

[Nate]

my pacific salt is definitely more comfortable iwb than my native salt. however, if i hadn't had both to compare, i wouldn't have given it a second thought when i clipped my native iwb. the other day i carried my caribbean iwb and it was more comfortable than the native, but it was also heavier, so it was more noticeable too. i guess what i'm trying to say is the pacific salt is king iwb, but it's not really an issue to carry the blockiest frn folder or even a heavy g10 knife iwb.

Funny, I’d been talking about UKPKs but this is my iwb boardshorts carry today:



Pacific, meet the Atlantic... :D

The other non-kitchen knives I brought with me to OBX are an frn UKPK and the Manbug Salt that lives on my keys.

Eta: On weight, I’d agree it’s mostly not an issue, but more noticeable for sure and at least for me can lead to noteable saggage of the shorts lol.