How fast can Spyderco go from the decision to do it to an actual FRN prototype? (Sal?)

[Wartstein]

On blade show Eric introduced a Chief FRN ( - prototype I guess)

Now I started a thread quite recently, called "Sal, any (even just remote) Chance of an FRN Chief?" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313)

Sal replied in this thread just one month ago (May 3rd), (quote):
"We're watching the comments. FRN depends on demand. It's nice because of the lower manufacturing costs but FRN tooling is expensive and we have to "guess" whether of not it will be popular enough to finance the tooling costs?" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313&start=60#p1519582)

Sounds like just one month ago Spydero was not even sure if an FRN Chief would be an realistic option, and now we have at least a prototype already, ready to be displayed at blade show!
This is pretty amazing, considering that doing an FRN model probably requires design, early prototypes, than making the molds and so on... I always thought this would require a much longer period of time.

Now it might be that Sal does not want to be involved (anymore) in every detail of every project, and so he did not know exactly about a possible FRN Chief.
But if this is not the case: I´d be really interested to know if the time period from deciding to do an FRN version of an already existing G10 model to a pretty perfect looking prototype is (can be) always that fast?!

[Wartstein]

Added to my post above:

The extremely fast process from obviously/probably not even knowing if this is an realistic option to an actual FRN Chief prototype is even more amazing, if one considers the following:

In the same comment I linked above, Sal said (quote): "I just approved of the engineering drawing for the FRN Shaman" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313&start=60#p1519582)

So: The FRN Shaman was already approved one month ago, while the FRN Chief obviously was not even a certain option then - but now we actually see an FRN Chief, but not an FRN Shaman... !!

[Airlsee]

I choose to believe that he just misspoke or misunderstood or was not aware of the prototype. It is just really hard to believe that it went from that post to blade show in less than a month.

That's just my opinion, I know nothing.

[Wartstein]

I choose to believe that he just misspoke or misunderstood or was not aware of the prototype. It is just really hard to believe that it went from that post to blade show in less than a month.

That's just my opinion, I know nothing.

I think this is very likely too. ONE month (or even less) from not even really planning this to an actual prototype (especially in FRN, which requires molds) would be extremely fast.

[Evil D]

Realistically I'm betting it could be done in mere days if they really wanted to push something out as fast as possible. Or another way to say it would be, they can do it as fast as it takes to actually design and manufacture the molds and start cranking them out, so however long that process takes. There's always R&D involved but I think they've got the FRN mold process down to a science, they've been doing it now for decades so even doing a brand new model isn't like they're doing it for the first time, it's a lot of "the same but different". I'm betting it's literally as simple as designing the 3D file, machining the molds, making production samples and reviewing them, and then start popping them out. I bet there's as much or more time spent in the board room debating whether or not it's financially feasible, and then how long it takes to squeeze that model in with the rest of production but if the whole company stopped and said look we want to make a FRN Military RIGHT NOW and it's the highest priority to get this model into production, I bet we'd see a production sample by next weekend at the latest.

[Wartstein]

Realistically I'm betting it could be done in mere days if they really wanted to push something out as fast as possible. Or another way to say it would be, they can do it as fast as it takes to actually design and manufacture the molds and start cranking them out, so however long that process takes. There's always R&D involved but I think they've got the FRN mold process down to a science, they've been doing it now for decades so even doing a brand new model isn't like they're doing it for the first time, it's a lot of "the same but different". I'm betting it's literally as simple as designing the 3D file, machining the molds, making production samples and reviewing them, and then start popping them out. I bet there's as much or more time spent in the board room debating whether or not it's financially feasible, and then how long it takes to squeeze that model in with the rest of production but if the whole company stopped and said look we want to make a FRN Military RIGHT NOW and it's the highest priority to get this model into production, I bet we'd see a production sample by next weekend at the latest.

Good points... so perhaps they decided rather spontaneously to do an FRN Chief, maybe even BECAUSE they wanted to show a prototype at blade? And squeezed it before the FRN Shaman, which seemingly one month ago was further down the "road to becoming reality"?

[archangel]

Gernot, not trying to disappoint you here, but I'm almost certainly sure that there was a plan to have a lw frn version of the Chief already when the G10 model was introduced. It's a Sal design, it's got so many iconic genes, it's a hotseller - I don't think it was really in question if they should or shouldn't lightweight it.

[Wartstein]

Gernot, not trying to disappoint you here, but I'm almost certainly sure that there was a plan to have a lw frn version of the Chief already when the G10 model was introduced. It's a Sal design, it's got so many iconic genes, it's a hotseller - I don't think it was really in question if they should or shouldn't lightweight it.

This might (will) very well be the case! (And there is no option that could "disappoint" me ?! )

But this is not about if they generally had the plan to do the FRN Chief eventually...

I am just referring to Sals comment from just one month ago: Really indicates that at this point they had no actual plans to do the FRN Chief right now/then, while the drawing/engineering of the FRN Shaman was already approved.
And now, one month later, we see an FRN Chief but no FRN Shaman...

Not that it really matter anyway, I am just interested in the decision and production process of Spydercos too (aside from Spydercos as knives )

[Evil D]

It seems like they've made some significant advancements in FRN LW production, we're seeing more linerless FRN models than ever before. Maybe the embedded clip screw mounts are the breakthrough they were waiting for? If you consider the lower cost of making FRN scales (after the cost of the mold is paid for) and making a knife without the additional cost of steel liners which adds more material and machining costs, making FRN LW models offers a great profit margin. It's probably something we'll see a lot more of in the future.

[Wartstein]

It seems like they've made some significant advancements in FRN LW production, we're seeing more linerless FRN models than ever before. Maybe the embedded clip screw mounts are the breakthrough they were waiting for? If you consider the lower cost of making FRN scales (after the cost of the mold is paid for) and making a knife without the additional cost of steel liners which adds more material and machining costs, making FRN LW models offers a great profit margin. It's probably something we'll see a lot more of in the future.

I would not complain... Prefer this by far over (linered or unlinered) G10...

[archangel]

Don't be fooled by Sal saying a month ago "we are watching the comments" means that they hadn't started the project many months before that. It was as clear as a sunny sky is blue that there'd be a lw frn version. Same for the Shaman. I'm also pretty sure that the lw frm Police 4 project started waaaaay baaaaack in time, too. I'm rather surprised we haven't seen a lw frn Millie yet - or should I say I expect there's gonna be one eventually, some day?

[mark greenman]

But if this is not the case: I´d be really interested to know if the time period from deciding to do an FRN version of an already existing G10 model to a pretty perfect looking prototype is (can be) always that fast?!

FRN handles offers 2 rapid options for prototyping:

-3D Printing the handle. This could be done within a day if the rest of the internal hardware (lock, pivot, etc) is compatible and the handle CAD drawing has been drafted.

These Delica scales are 3D printed, for example:
https://www.amazon.com/Scales-Spyderco- ... B07H1BW9N3



-3D printed molds. Theres now options to make 3D printed molds which can be used to make a few dozen to 100 parts before wearing out.
https://formlabs.com/applications/injection-molding/

I'm not saying Spyderco did either for the Chief LW, just saying there are methods of rapid prototyping FRN.

[yablanowitz]

It's one thing to mold a single prototype FRN handle, and another to machine the gang molds necessary for full production.

P.S. Mark types faster than I do.

[JRinFL]

Even before 3D printed molds, there were low production molds meant for testing and fine tuning. Production molds are very expensive for a reason. I believe Eric is running the show at Spyderco and he doesn’t post, so the true timeline wont be known.

[JRinFL]

But if this is not the case: I´d be really interested to know if the time period from deciding to do an FRN version of an already existing G10 model to a pretty perfect looking prototype is (can be) always that fast?!

FRN handles offers 2 rapid options for prototyping:

-3D Printing the handle. This could be done within a day if the rest of the internal hardware (lock, pivot, etc) is compatible and the handle CAD drawing has been drafted.

These Delica scales are 3D printed, for example:
https://www.amazon.com/Scales-Spyderco- ... B07H1BW9N3



-3D printed molds. Theres now options to make 3D printed molds which can be used to make a few dozen to 100 parts before wearing out.
https://formlabs.com/applications/injection-molding/

I'm not saying Spyderco did either for the Chief LW, just saying there are methods of rapid prototyping FRN.

Injection molded G10 scales? That’s news to me.

[skeeg11]

Actually I think Sal was just keeping things close to the vest. He's pretty good at that you know. :p

[araneae]

I was told at blade show that most of the protos with lightweight handles are 3d printed. Probably makes for a short time frame.

[zhyla]

Injection molded G10 scales? That’s news to me.

No, those are clearly CNC machines from G10. 3D printing is useful for rough mock-ups. Not for production.

[Michael Janich]

Hey, All:

The Native Chief Lightweight concept has actually bee in the works for quite some time.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Airlsee]

Hey, All:

The Native Chief Lightweight concept has actually bee in the works for quite some time.

Stay safe,

Mike

Yeah, makes sense. Trying to picture Spyderco rushing around Golden trying to whip something together before blade show because the forum mentioned an FRN Chief a few weeks ago just didn't make sense. They don't seem like they "whip things together" much...their production process seems pretty methodical.

My opinion of course.