A few sharpmaker questions

[adesh]

Hey guys,

I have a little sharpening experience (mostly sharpening chisels) and I recently ordered the sharpmaker. After quite a bit of trial and error, I seem to be getting the hang of it. I had a few questions though which I haven't found the answer to on the forums (I'm sure they've been asked before, I just can't find them).

I'm finding it very difficult to use the flat sides of the stones. With recurve blades I find it almost impossible, but even with something like my delica 3, using a sharpie, I don't seem to be very consistent. I know one of the videos Lance made, he says to turn the blade upwards as you sharpen. I tried to do that but I still wasn't very good with it. With the edges of the rods I am spot on so I've been using those exclusively.

Is it ok to sharpen on one side of the blade for a number of strokes before switching to the other side for the same number of strokes? I find it faster to do it this way but I'm not sure if it's a good practice or not.

Is it ok to go both up and down the rods when sharpening or should I only go in one direction?

If you maintain a 40 degree microbevel on a 30 degree knife, will that knife become a true 40 degree edge over time? Is there any real need to reprofile at 30 degrees if you don't mind having a 40 degree edge?

Thank you guys, I've been lurking here for awhile and I really appreciate these forums and the people who post here.

[Vaugith]

Sounds like you have the right idea. Recurve blades will work best with the corners of the rods due to geometry. The flat sides work well with non recurve areas, just think of it as trying to keep the apex pointed straight down the rod. If you need to remove more material it's fine to use one side for a number of strokes in a row and then switch if you keep them even, but for the cleanest apex you should switch sides every stroke for the final few. I only go down the rods, not sure I've heard of people going up them...

As to your question about turning it into a 40 degree bevel over time: the important thing to consider here is that the Spyderco ceramics remove metal very slowly. The less surface area they are contacting at once, the faster that metal is removed. So of you are applying a microbevel (ie using the 40 degree slots on a bevel that's at 30 degrees) you are only contacting the very fine apex, and will be cutting very quickly. Here it works well to only use very light pressure and only a few alternating strokes to get an edge back to shaving sharp. However if you're using the 40 degree slots on a 40 degree bevel, the rods will be contacting the whole bevel and removing material much more slowly, and it will take significantly longer (particularly on harder to grind steels) to get the apex sharp again. Personally I use another system to set the bevel at 30 (sometimes 34) degrees inclusive and then the Spyderco medium rods at 40 degrees to apply and maintain that microbevel. Once it takes more than a couple of minutes to get back to shaving sharp (or I get a chip in the edge) I go back to my other system and reset the angle. I find using this method I spend the least amount of time overall sharpening to keep a very sharp edge all the time.

[vivi]

I'm finding it very difficult to use the flat sides of the stones. With recurve blades I find it almost impossible, but even with something like my delica 3, using a sharpie, I don't seem to be very consistent. I know one of the videos Lance made, he says to turn the blade upwards as you sharpen. I tried to do that but I still wasn't very good with it. With the edges of the rods I am spot on so I've been using those exclusively.

With certain blade shapes and edge types I only use the corners. Hawkbills, recurves and serrated edges, specifically. Try those for the recurves.

For conventional plain edge I recommend always using the flats. They spread the pressure you apply to the apex across a larger surface, which puts less stress on the apex.

Try looking straight down over your sharpmaker and watching your strokes going half as fast as you normally do. See if you angle the blade during the stroke and miss the flats, then correct your motion as needed.

Is it ok to sharpen on one side of the blade for a number of strokes before switching to the other side for the same number of strokes? I find it faster to do it this way but I'm not sure if it's a good practice or not.

It is ok to begin a sharpening session like that, but it isn't ok to finish it that way.

Some people like to grind one side until they've raised a burr across the entire edge, then repeat on the other side, and only then switch to one stroke per side. There is wisdom in this method, as it ensures the apex is completely refreshed.

Imagine your V shaped edge. You grind one side and raise a burr on the other side. If you grind the same side again, you aren't making the edge sharper, you're raising a bigger burr.

You always want to finish the job with one stroke per side.

Is it ok to go both up and down the rods when sharpening or should I only go in one direction?

Yes. Like multiple strokes per side, I would use this method only when esteblishing the edge, but not when finishing it.

Many people report success using this method for sharpening serrations, observing they get each scallop fully sharpened better than when going in one direction.

For plain edges I would expect it to make less of a difference.

If you maintain a 40 degree microbevel on a 30 degree knife, will that knife become a true 40 degree edge over time? Is there any real need to reprofile at 30 degrees if you don't mind having a 40 degree edge?

There's nothing wrong with that approach if you are happy with the cutting performance of a 40 degree edge.

Sal has gone on record saying he feels any steel they use can handle a 30 degree edge (I agree), but it does take extra time to maintain that angle compared to 40 degrees.

Pros and cons to each approach. I'd continue sharpening at 40 degrees if you're happy with that edge, but give a 30 degree edge a shot sometime down the road.

[Water Bug]

I used to have issues using the flat sides of the Spyderco Tri-Angle Stones as "Part 2" of the sharpening sequence, especially with the Fine White Stones. What I found for me, personally, was that I needed to be more careful in ensuring a straight up-and-down vertical positioning of the knife's edge to the flat stone surface and perform the sharpening action at a slower pace.

I also alternate one side then the other of the edge for normal sharpening... I may occasionally do several strokes on one side and repeat the same for the other, or even do circular motions, when the edge is being stubborn about getting sharp. I also do most of my sharpening at 40 degrees... if I need a lesser angle, I'll usually go to a standard bench stone, a practice I'm still not fully good at, but getting a little better at it... sort of. :)

I'm afraid that's the best I can describe this as far as my experience goes in using the flat sides of the stones for my Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker. For me, it kind of seemed like there came a day where I was finally able to get good results with the flat sides of the Tri-Angle Stones, and I was SO happy about that. Now I find, and appreciate, that the flat sides allow me to sharpen the full length of the blade and get that final touch of sharpness desired for the edge.

Hope that helps.

[adesh]

Great replies, thank you.

Vivi: What about starting from the bottom of the rods and bringing the blade upwards? Any problem with that? Reason I ask is because when I use the diamond rods, I can't seem to go downwards without the blade occasionally getting stuck on the rod. Thanks.

[sal]

Hi Adesh,

Welcome to our forum.

Did you watch the Sharpmaker video?

sal

[yablanowitz]

Great replies, thank you.

Vivi: What about starting from the bottom of the rods and bringing the blade upwards? Any problem with that? Reason I ask is because when I use the diamond rods, I can't seem to go downwards without the blade occasionally getting stuck on the rod. Thanks.

I personally would call that a dead giveaway that you are using too much pressure.

[jpm2]

Great replies, thank you.

Vivi: What about starting from the bottom of the rods and bringing the blade upwards? Any problem with that? Reason I ask is because when I use the diamond rods, I can't seem to go downwards without the blade occasionally getting stuck on the rod. Thanks.

It might be the rods aren't broken in yet.
All diamond and cbn plates I have, including the sharpmaker rods, had uneven abrasive when new. Some of the abrasive is sitting higher than the rest. This has always resulted in snags. With use, the abrasive will get wore down evenly, and smooth out. The higher the sharpening angle, more noticeable it is.
I avoid apex contact till my plates are smoothed out, and stick with just thinning behind the edge till then.

[Ric]

I recommend the YouTube video of lance clinton.
Keep on sharpening.
It took me 6 month to get to more satisfied results but its worth it!

It's like driving a car.
It's complicated and the it clicks and it's getting easier.