I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year (on hold until further notice)

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vivi
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#121

Post by vivi »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:34 pm
Today I broke down and reprofiled/sharpened the plain edge portion at the tip. It was pretty badly rolled and dull, so it seems like pretty standard edge retention up there.


Image

I'm wondering if I've made an oversight in this edge retention test, since it's pretty well agreed upon that you can't judge a steel by the factory edge, and most will sqy you need to sharpen the knife before you see what the steel can really do. This started as a factory edge, so does anyone think I should step back and sharpen it and start over or just keep at it?
I'd grind off the factory edge with a 20dps microbevel at least.
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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#122

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

Turn that small bit of PE into one large serration?

While I'd like to see how your edge will perform, I'm also interested in your experience with the factory grind.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#123

Post by Evil D »

I've got no problem soldering on with the factory edge, it still seems quite sharp. It doesn't really push cut as easy anymore but for example I was showing it to my brother-in-law Friday and he cut through a plastic bottle with it like it was just sharpened. I made the comment that it hadn't been sharpened yet and he couldn't believe it was as sharp as it was.


I think even when the SE K390 stuff starts rolling out I'll still be carrying this knife at work. So far it has been really convenient and works great for what I use it knives for at work.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#124

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:28 am
Joshua J. wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 11:27 pm
Don´t forget the upcoming S35VN Resilience SE... actually 4mm MORE edge length than the Jumpmaster and still a more compact carry than the Police (11 mm shorter when closed).

/ On the Jumpmaster: David, the Ricasso looks to be wide enough for offering a nice place to choke up on, and even more comfortable than on an Endura Ricasso, since it is "flatter" (does not create a point) on the JM - true in your use?

As for the ricasso, I immediately started asking myself why they didn't either shape that into a choil or just bring the edge further back to the handle. You CAN use it as a choil, and if you have smaller/thinner fingers than I do it would probably work pretty well but I would have to be very careful to keep my finger from getting onto the edge.
If you can comfortably use the ricasso on a Delica as a choil, then you'd probably be fine with this too. I tried that with a Salt 2 after the last time we talked about it and it's just way too small for me and puts my fingers in a weird position.

David, this is perhaps the biggest "knife riddle" for me: I DO have rather wide fingers (L to XL hands, climber...) and on any knife I use the ricasso as a choil the finger of course extends over the ricasso area onto the edge. This is no problem at all though, even if I actually choke up on the actual edge too (this can just get a bit uncomfortable with SE due toe the "spikes) - I do it all the time, the "ricasso grip" is perhaps my most used one on the Endura for example - never, ever cut myself
I honestly find this ricasso grip very useful, decently comfortable, better than on many choils and first and formost perfectly safe.

I actually sometimes choke up on the very cutting edge (sharp!) of knives too (if they don´t have choil or ricasso), and never cut myself, even in harder tasks or with wet hands and so on. One won´t cut themselves just by touching the edge or pressing the finger on it, this will only happen if there actually occurs a drawing/cutting motion.
Did a thread once on this (my most controversial one so far, so I won´t link it here) including a poll that showed that I think around 8% of the voters DO choke up on the very edge (not just ricasso, this do a lot more) too.
This was done in history too for example with sharp medieval swords for performing the so called "murder stroke": Holding the knife upside down on the blade and bashing armoured opponents with the hilt...

To each their own of course, but for me personally choking up on the ricasso (and not the whole width of my finger fits there by far!) is not only no problem, but a very useful and also secure grip...

Now you might say: "Ok, fine but still a choil would do the same" - but no, not for me:
- A choil creates a wider distance from actual handle to edge (when not choking up)
- Many (not all) choils just feel better to me when I only hold the knife, but on real use choking up on a ricasso gives me more control

I am not actually advocating for choking up on the ricasso here, but I also want to make clear: This is not just "talking" but my personal, real experience and finding over quite some years...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Evil D
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#125

Post by Evil D »

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:47 am
Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:28 am
Joshua J. wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 11:27 pm
Don´t forget the upcoming S35VN Resilience SE... actually 4mm MORE edge length than the Jumpmaster and still a more compact carry than the Police (11 mm shorter when closed).

/ On the Jumpmaster: David, the Ricasso looks to be wide enough for offering a nice place to choke up on, and even more comfortable than on an Endura Ricasso, since it is "flatter" (does not create a point) on the JM - true in your use?

As for the ricasso, I immediately started asking myself why they didn't either shape that into a choil or just bring the edge further back to the handle. You CAN use it as a choil, and if you have smaller/thinner fingers than I do it would probably work pretty well but I would have to be very careful to keep my finger from getting onto the edge.
If you can comfortably use the ricasso on a Delica as a choil, then you'd probably be fine with this too. I tried that with a Salt 2 after the last time we talked about it and it's just way too small for me and puts my fingers in a weird position.

David, this is perhaps the biggest "knife riddle" for me: I DO have rather wide fingers (L to XL hands, climber...) and on any knife I use the ricasso as a choil the finger of course extends over the ricasso area onto the edge. This is no problem at all though, even if I actually choke up on the actual edge too (this can just get a bit uncomfortable with SE due toe the "spikes) - I do it all the time, the "ricasso grip" is perhaps my most used one on the Endura for example - never, ever cut myself
I honestly find this ricasso grip very useful, decently comfortable, better than on many choils and first and formost perfectly safe.

I actually sometimes choke up on the very cutting edge (sharp!) of knives too (if they don´t have choil or ricasso), and never cut myself, even in harder tasks or with wet hands and so on. One won´t cut themselves just by touching the edge or pressing the finger on it, this will only happen if there actually occurs a drawing/cutting motion.
Did a thread once on this (my most controversial one so far, so I won´t link it here) including a poll that showed that I think around 8% of the voters DO choke up on the very edge (not just ricasso, this do a lot more) too.
This was done in history too for example with sharp medieval swords for performing the so called "murder stroke": Holding the knife upside down on the blade and bashing armoured opponents with the hilt...

To each their own of course, but for me personally choking up on the ricasso (and not the whole width of my finger fits there by far!) is not only no problem, but a very useful and also secure grip...

Now you might say: "Ok, fine but still a choil would do the same" - but no, not for me:
- A choil creates a wider distance from actual handle to edge (when not choking up)
- Many (not all) choils just feel better to me when I only hold the knife, but on real use choking up on a ricasso gives me more control

I am not actually advocating for choking up on the ricasso here, but I also want to make clear: This is not just "talking" but my personal, real experience and finding over quite some years...


I get what you're saying, I just don't trust myself to do it. There are even knives that have full sized choils that I wasn't comfortable with like the Gayle Bradley that was just too shallow and lacked enough guard/hook to keep my finger from slipping forward into the edge. Maybe I'm using my knives harder in this kind of grip? I could definitely see myself squeezing the knife too hard and getting cut, especially when you're dealing with serrations that push cut phone book paper. I would just prefer a handle design that puts my index finger as close to the edge as possible while keeping it off the edge. I really don't need more than one secure grip option and I find myself doing harder more forceful cuts more often than not so a secure "full fisted" grip is what I'm looking for.
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Wartstein
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#126

Post by Wartstein »

Double post
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#127

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:10 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:47 am
Evil D wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 2:28 am


I get what you're saying, I just don't trust myself to do it. There are even knives that have full sized choils that I wasn't comfortable with like the Gayle Bradley that was just too shallow and lacked enough guard/hook to keep my finger from slipping forward into the edge. Maybe I'm using my knives harder in this kind of grip? I could definitely see myself squeezing the knife too hard and getting cut, especially when you're dealing with serrations that push cut phone book paper. I would just prefer a handle design that puts my index finger as close to the edge as possible while keeping it off the edge. I really don't need more than one secure grip option and I find myself doing harder more forceful cuts more often than not so a secure "full fisted" grip is what I'm looking for.
Well, I DO use my knives really hard when choked up on the Ricasso grip, believe me.. ;)
I even made some vids for the thread back then, where I pressed and cut into hard wood and stubborn cardboard both coked up on the Ricasso and also the very edge - from the very edge I get a slight mark then, but no cut whatsoever. Choil works perfectly anyway. (I also did one where I grabbed a perfectly sharp Endura upside on the very edge and hammered in a small nail in wood - just as an analogy to what they did in the middleages with swords)
But I decided not to share the vids, cause I got some heat back then for proposing such "dangerous" methods. And perhaps rightfully so, cause people might just watch the vids and not read the context, do this in a wrong way and then WILL cut themselves.

Anyway, not relevant and off topic for this/your thread! :)
but perhaps you´d like to carefully grab something like an Endura, choke up on the Ricasso, cut some cardboard and see if anything bad could start to happen to you... I doubt it!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#128

Post by Evil D »

Here ya go, about as real world as my reality can get.

https://youtu.be/xGOoHq9xupw


Still sharp enough to push cut this pickle, even with reside still on the blade :D

Image
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#129

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

It's interesting how geometry (including the complexity of SE) has such an effect on cutting performance. Even when dull, unable to slice paper, it'll still push cut cardboard -- and a pickle :D.

Thanks for the update! I'm enjoying this thread and hope you can make it a full year :)

Similarly, while recently cutting up a foam mattress, my ARK clearly became dull, unable to slice paper, and was still cutting through the foam. I didn't take any breaks to test sharpness on paper, so I'm not sure how long it had been dull during the process. I'm not sure how a "dull"/"working edge" PE would've handled that task, I should've made a comparison. The SE just kept going.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#130

Post by Evil D »

Started reprofiling today, and I'm telling you right now this knife is harder than my other H1 knives. I can feel it in the way the rods don't bite as hard when making passes.


I almost suspected that my CBN rods are starting to wear out but I'm still getting steel dust so I know they're cutting. At this point I've reprofiled enough SE blades that I feel pretty confident in judging how easily the process goes, and this is much closer to my experience with S30V than other H1 knives.


This is on the 30 degree slots, so the bevel is a good few degrees steeper than 15 degrees.

Image



This is after a couple hours of very casual on and off sharpening. I tend to have a lot going on when I'm off work so I bounce around the house and spend 5-10 minutes working on it and then come back to it. My thumb shows the dust I wiped off the edge of the CBN rod.

Image



I found the pattern interesting, it seems like the serrations aren't all the same angle. I wonder if on longer blades if all the serrations are cut at the same time or if they have to do it in two sections? You can see how the middle of the blade seems a lot closer to matching 15 degrees while the heel and tip are much steeper angles. I suppose this could show some error on my part, maybe I'm not holding it at perfect 90 throughout the whole pass?


Image
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#131

Post by Bemo »

Awesome thread. Thanks David for this addition.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#132

Post by ZrowsN1s »

One thing that would be interesting to know but hard to test is how 'deep' does the work hardening go. How much edge do you have to grind off before you experience a drop in RC at the edge.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#133

Post by Evil D »

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:07 am
One thing that would be interesting to know but hard to test is how 'deep' does the work hardening go. How much edge do you have to grind off before you experience a drop in RC at the edge.



This has been my question ever since I first heard about H1. If we all accept work hardening for a fact, then surely it ends somewhere because we also know that the spine isn't as hard as the edge, so how far into the blade does it go? How many times can I reprofile before I've ground off all the harder steel? Some believe that sharpening ADDS to the work hardening, others say it's the grinding of the serrations that do it and sharpening isn't the same.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#134

Post by ZrowsN1s »

I recall maybe a year or two ago Sal mentioning in a thread that end user sharpening did not add to work hardening. Only the machine grinding process they use for serrations does. I think he also added that the machine process for PE wasn't enough to work harden H-1 to the levels of SE H-1.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#135

Post by kobold »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:54 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:07 am
One thing that would be interesting to know but hard to test is how 'deep' does the work hardening go. How much edge do you have to grind off before you experience a drop in RC at the edge.



This has been my question ever since I first heard about H1. If we all accept work hardening for a fact, then surely it ends somewhere because we also know that the spine isn't as hard as the edge, so how far into the blade does it go? How many times can I reprofile before I've ground off all the harder steel? Some believe that sharpening ADDS to the work hardening, others say it's the grinding of the serrations that do it and sharpening isn't the same.


Micrographs could show the hardened regions? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/24/ ... -it-works/

Maybe when we run out of hard steel we could just hammer the edge for more?
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#136

Post by Evil D »

Well I've got two new sets of CBN rods and diamond rods coming in the mail, mostly because I'm just curious about how much bite mine have lost vs new ones and since I use them so much I figured even if mine are still cutting I can distribute wear over several rods and they should all last a bit longer hopefully. I use the corners almost exclusively these days so they see a lot of use. My JM2 has been down for a couple days since it's in the middle of being reprofiled but I've been conducting a lot of training at work anyway so it hasn't missed any action.
Last edited by Evil D on Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#137

Post by Woodpuppy »

I wonder the same. My cbn rods took the brunt of my learning curve and I expect they are considerably tamed from what a new set will do. They still reprofile a factory blade well enough though; the scary sound has mellowed some.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#138

Post by Jason Paul »

I'm curious if you've tried using sandpaper wrapped around the Sharpmaker rod; I know a lot of people have.

I'm in the process of reprofiling my Pacific Salt 2 and tried sandpaper in an effort to spare my CBN rods some of the work. I started with 320-grit and it seemed pretty similar to CBN, but last night I switched to 100-grit and it seems to be going noticeably faster.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#139

Post by Evil D »

Jason Paul wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:08 am
I'm curious if you've tried using sandpaper wrapped around the Sharpmaker rod; I know a lot of people have.

I'm in the process of reprofiling my Pacific Salt 2 and tried sandpaper in an effort to spare my CBN rods some of the work. I started with 320-grit and it seemed pretty similar to CBN, but last night I switched to 100-grit and it seems to be going noticeably faster.


I have for PE but not for SE. I reprofiled a Maxamet Native 5 using only sandpaper.
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Re: I will now EDC a Jumpmaster 2 for 1 year

#140

Post by Evil D »

Finally back to work with this today. I got it reprofiled last Tuesday but then before I could post anything I fell off my house like an idiot and hurt my arm pretty bad so I haven't felt like doing anything until the last couple days.

Reprofiling it was a real chore, so much that I don't think I'd even recommend it to anyone else unless you're just that dedicated. Whether or not this knife has more edge retention than the next H1 blade, I can't say yet, but I can definitely say it seems to be much harder than anything else I've reprofiled, and as I said in another post it reprofiles more like S30V than what I've felt with other H1 or even LC200N. I bought a new set of each diamond and CBN rods and even going through all 4 of those rods felt like an up hill battle and I may have even wore those out a little prematurely.


Anyway, I sat out back and carved some of old dried sycamore sticks and chopped down some saplings that grow up along my fence line. It's really not the best chopper since it doesn't have a lot of mass, but it's a different experience than with any folder since you can chop and whack without fear of hurting a pivot or lock.

Image
Image
Image


Anything up to about a half inch you can chop clean through with one good swing.
Image



I can't say enough good things about the ergonomics. Even after at least an hour of whittling sticks there weren't any real hot spots. The FRN texture definitely makes itself known, but not enough to cause blisters or anything. I do think a handle like this that uses such strong guard/pomel designs to lock your hand in place could be more comfortable with a polished G10 handle. Maybe I'll make some..
Image


I got a little lazy and didn't clean off the marker from the reprofile job. I wasn't sure if I was satisfied with it yet. This is reprofiled down to 15 degrees on the front, and on the back I'm actually laying the blade flat against the stones to keep the angle back there as low as I can get it.

Image
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