Most Underestimated Steel.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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elena86
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#61

Post by elena86 »

In Spyderco world it’s AEB-L. Biiiig mistake. This steel is awesome.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#62

Post by Spook410 »

When a steel falls from favor because there is a readily available better choice now on the market, it's not underrated. It is overtaken.

As for underrated, if you follow the posts of Dr. Larrin, I think T15 could be considered to be in that category. Looks to be a good choice in terms of properties demonstrated in testing. Don't know how expensive or available it is.
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Paraguy
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#63

Post by Paraguy »

Spook410 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:43 pm
When a steel falls from favor because there is a readily available better choice now on the market, it's not underrated. It is overtaken.

As for underrated, if you follow the posts of Dr. Larrin, I think T15 could be considered to be in that category. Looks to be a good choice in terms of properties demonstrated in testing. Don't know how expensive or available it is.
I don't think it's been used in very many knives. I would agree that it has been overlooked having been around for a good while.
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tonijedi
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#64

Post by tonijedi »

H1 and ZDP are pretty much underestimated.
Funny, because they are my EDC (H1) and top of the fridge knife for whatever task (ZDP).
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#65

Post by Paraguy »

elena86 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:34 am
In Spyderco world it’s AEB-L. Biiiig mistake. This steel is awesome.
Sal?
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#66

Post by z1r »

spoonrobot wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:47 pm
ZDP is interesting because it’s one of the highest end steels that can be sharpened with normal india and crystolon stones to good effect. Most of the other steels in its class require diamond or CBN to achieve the same results.
Agreed. I was able to reprofile my ZDP DF2 with much less effort than it required to recondition a mini-Gerber with whatever mystery steel they use.

Just received my ZDP Endura. Sweet!

Too bad the Endela wasn't made in ZDP. Guess now I have an excuse to try K390.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#67

Post by JohnDoe99 »

Paraguy wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:05 pm
In the days of of Maxament, Rex 45, 20cv, k390, Zwear and upcoming Magnacut etc, it is easy to underestimate steels that aren't new with a Rockwell above 65. What steels do you think are most underestimated? To me, it seems that VG10 and s30v get a bad rap among Spyderco loving knife nerds, despite being excellent steels. This is most likely because they are very accessible, being used in Spyderco’s non-sprint models. I would also say that D2 is quite underestimated. What do you more experienced fellas think?
Certainly S30V. The only steels that will noticeably surpass it in wear are s110v level steels, but then you have a whole new set of problems.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#68

Post by JohnDoe99 »

Spook410 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:43 pm
When a steel falls from favor because there is a readily available better choice now on the market, it's not underrated. It is overtaken.
You're implying that the consumer is not totally manipulated by the profit seeking motive of the market, which is of course false.

None of the new steels seeking to replace S30V will have a noticeable real world effect on performance.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#69

Post by JohnDoe99 »

spoonrobot wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:47 pm
ZDP is interesting because it’s one of the highest end steels that can be sharpened with normal india and crystolon stones to good effect. Most of the other steels in its class require diamond or CBN to achieve the same results.
While ZDP-189 is easier to sharpen on ceramics than, say, something like S110V, which is a nightmare, it still isn't easy to sharpen as such. Isn't it over 30% carbide? That is a ton of carbide, regardless of the metal.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#70

Post by Bill1170 »

In the early oughts, ZDP was the wunderkind of blade steels. Super hard, ridiculous 3% carbon content, powder metallurgy magical steel. It is no longer in style, but it’s still my favorite stainless for holding a polished razor edge.

VG-10 has been the standard Japanese stainless in Spyderco’s Seki models for so long that many disregard it’s excellent balance of qualities. Like S30V, its overall competence leads some to take it for granted. I get the feeling that Spy27 will behave like the offspring of these two steels (S30V and VG-10), taking good qualities from each.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#71

Post by Senfkarte »

I vote for S30V.
Just becuase it is some sort of "default"-steel, it has not to be bad. The opposite is true. A very good steel in my opinion.
Last edited by Senfkarte on Fri May 14, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
James Y
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#72

Post by James Y »

Another vote for both VG-10 and S30V.

Wait another 10 to 15 years, and most of the new steels people consider “super steels” today will be considered ‘boring/pedestrian’.

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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#73

Post by vivi »

Senfkarte wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:26 am
I vote for S30V.
Just becuase it is some sort of "default"-steel, it has to be bad. The opposite is true. A very good steel in my opinion.
Yep. My Military holds an edge very well.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#74

Post by James Y »

James Y wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:53 am
Another vote for both VG-10 and S30V.

Wait another 10 to 15 years, and most of the new steels people consider “super steels” today will be considered ‘boring/pedestrian’.

Jim

Just to clarify my post, I like both VG-10 and S30V. I especially hope that VG-10 always remains somewhere in the lineup.

Jim
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#75

Post by Doc Dan »

Paraguy wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:36 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:20 pm
BD1N comes to mind.
For me it performs a lot better in edge retention than it "should" according to objective tests, even Larrins.
And it is a dream to sharpen, even better than VG10 in that regard for me. Both how quickly it goes and how sharp the steel gets.
I was surprised when I found out that VG10 and 154cm were almost indistinguishable. Would you say BD1N out performs vg10 in edge retention?
No, it is slightly less. I have a lot of experience with both. However, it is close enough for government work, as the old saying goes.
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Senfkarte
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#76

Post by Senfkarte »

vivi wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:53 am
Senfkarte wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:26 am
I vote for S30V.
Just becuase it is some sort of "default"-steel, it has to be bad. The opposite is true. A very good steel in my opinion.
Yep. My Military holds an edge very well.
Oh, I just forgot a very important "not" in my original text. Fixed it. But I think my message came across nevertheless.
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brancron
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#77

Post by brancron »

In general, I think that among steel snobs nowadays, wear resistance is highly overrated as a desirable factor, when the combination of (1) toughness, (2) hardness and (3) thin edge geometry is much more important for cutting ability.

With that in mind, I would probably say that steels like 14C28N or 19C27 are underestimated.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#78

Post by Gtscotty »

This thread is making me circle back around to ZDP-189. I had a ZDP Delica back when this steel was the hotness, but lost it somewhere along the way. I've got an itch for another stretch in a high performance steel, the ZDP versions are still available, not stupidly priced, less rusty than K390 and would probably be better than waiting and hoping for 20CV or S90V/S110V.
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#79

Post by TomAiello »

I am actually a fan of ZDP-189. I own several Dragonflies in it, as well as an Endura and a Delica.

As far as AEB-L, I agree that it's underrated, but I'd rather see 14c28n than AEB-L. I have made knives in both (and bought/used commercial knives in both) and in my uses, 14c28n seems to hold a working edge longer than AEB-L, with equal ease of sharpening and edge stability. Supposedly it has better corrosion resistance as well, but that's a non issue for me (in my use AEB-L has never had any staining issues).

Brancron, I've never owned a 19c27 knife. Do you happen to know where you can buy that steel (not as a finished knife)?
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Re: Most Underestimated Steel.

#80

Post by Josh Crutchley »

TomAiello wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:10 am
I am actually a fan of ZDP-189. I own several Dragonflies in it, as well as an Endura and a Delica.

As far as AEB-L, I agree that it's underrated, but I'd rather see 14c28n than AEB-L. I have made knives in both (and bought/used commercial knives in both) and in my uses, 14c28n seems to hold a working edge longer than AEB-L, with equal ease of sharpening and edge stability. Supposedly it has better corrosion resistance as well, but that's a non issue for me (in my use AEB-L has never had any staining issues).

Brancron, I've never owned a 19c27 knife. Do you happen to know where you can buy that steel (not as a finished knife)?
According to the Zknives app 19c27 is roughly equivalent to MBS-26 and AEB-H. Spyderco uses MBS-26 in some of their kitchen knives.
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